No thats understandable. Why counter grab when you could punch him straight in the face. Or even a counter trap and kick them. That would work wouldn't it?
Wing Chun grappling
- Thread starter futsaowingchun
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No thats understandable. Why counter grab when you could punch him straight in the face. Or even a counter trap and kick them. That would work wouldn't it?
Reeksta
Green Belt
While I largely agree with this, sometimes you have to take whatever's there. For instance, the other week we were doing a drill on the mook where we struck with a palm heel and then (assuming that the strike has missed or that the opponent was stupid enough to leave his head in the same place afterward) grab the back of their head/neck as you retract the arm in order to break their structure or possibly pull them on to another strike.
It's also worth considering context. Statistically most of us are more likely to have to restrain a drunk pal who's a bit out of control than defend ourselves against a determined attacker who genuinely wants to do us harm. In this instance I wouldn't want to smash their face to a pulp
Danny T
Senior Master
This I feel is one of the most important aspects of WC in its simplicity. EVERY movement should be doing something to the opponent. WC is about hitting. You should be dedicated to the strike; but not dedicated to any one particular strike. When the arm goes out and it doesn't contact anything it should be doing something to the opponent on the recovery or the return cycle.
Reeksta
Green Belt
Agreed. Something our sifu constantly reiterates is the idea of never wasting a movement. If you've kicked someone in the knee don't just put your foot down after, scrape it down their shin and stomp their toes while you do it. If you miss a punch, grab a hold of something on the way back
Agree! Sometime it may be easy to say but hard to do. You (general YOU) have to understand why your opponents wants to grab your wrist in the 1st place.... so the story goes like this ...
Student: Master, what do I do if he/she grab me with their right hand?
Master: Hit.
Student: What if it's the left hand?
Master: Hit.
Student: What if I was grabbed by both hands?
Master: Hit.
1st - the wrist area has the smallest diameter compare to the rest of your arm (easy to hold).
2nd - by holding on your wrist, your hand can be a nice handler to secure his grip (easy to pull).
It's so easy to break that grip, why your opponent still wants to do so? Most of the time when your opponent grabs on your wrist, he will have a "plan" in his mind. He may want to:
- shake you downward.
- drag you in circle.
- borrow the counter force to pull him toward you.
- use your leading arm to jam your back arm.
- set up a trap and wait for you to punch him with the other arm. When you punch, he comb his hair and then enter.
- the wrist grab is only the 1st step, the elbow grab will be the 2nd step, and the neck choke will be the 3rd step.
- draw your attention on that wrist grip.
- ...
If he uses his hand to grab on your right wrist, he will be on your "right side door". If you try to punch him with your left hand, all he needs is to use his hand to pull your right arm across your body. His arm pulling force (move your body to your left) will counter your back left arm punching force (move your body to your right).
Since when and how your opponent will pull your arm will be up to him, he will always be 1 step ahead of you and your punch will always be 1 step behind. IMO, it's better to break that grip first. The easiest way to do is just rotate your arm in the direction to against his thumb (1 finger). When you do that, you can grab on his wrist and put him in defense mode instead.
A striker and a grappler may look at "wrist grab" from different angles. But it's better to understand why a grappler may want to grab your wrist in the 1st place. It may not be as simple as you may think, "If you grab my right wrist, I'll punch you with my left fist".
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Agree! Sometime it may be easy to say but hard to do. You (general YOU) have to understand why your opponents wants to grab your wrist in the 1st place.
1st - the wrist area has the smallest diameter compare to the rest of your arm (easy to hold).
2nd - by holding on your wrist, your hand can be a nice handler to secure his grip (easy to pull).
It's so easy to break that grip, why your opponent still wants to do so? Most of the time when your opponent grabs on your wrist, he will have a "plan" in his mind. He may want to:
- shake you downward.
- drag you in circle.
- borrow the counter force to pull him toward you.
- use your leading arm to jam your back arm.
- set up a trap and wait for you to punch him with the other arm. When you punch, he comb his hair and then enter.
- the wrist grab is only the 1st step, the elbow grab will be the 2nd step, and the neck choke will be the 3rd step.
- draw your attention on that wrist grip.
- ...
If he uses his hand to grab on your right wrist, he will be on your "right side door". If you try to punch him with your left hand, all he needs is to use his hand to pull your right arm across your body. His arm pulling force (move your body to your left) will counter your back left arm punching force (move your body to your right).
Since when and how your opponent will pull your arm will be up to him, he will always be 1 step ahead of you and your punch will always be 1 step behind. IMO, it's better to break that grip first. The easiest way to do is just rotate your arm in the direction to against his thumb (1 finger). When you do that, you can grab on his wrist and put him in defense mode instead.
A striker and a grappler may look at "wrist grab" from different angles. But it's better to understand why a grappler may want to grab your wrist in the 1st place. It may not be as simple as you may think, "If you grab my right wrist, I'll punch you with my left fist".
All good points. And all are part of the WC training we do. We still teach that the most practical response to most grabs is a punch. Seems simple. But simplicity is often very subtle and complex, and it can be hard to pull off against an experienced grappler.
Bwahaha! Yeah, me too.
Would you just not headbut or something?
... and risk of having your eyes poked by an Bil Sao, you better be good and fast with your Wu Sau like Curly of the three stooges ...
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
collar tie escape. For the same reason you do the collar tie escape. You can do forearm in throat to give yourself a bit of time.
hip bump works ok as well.
... and risk of having your eyes poked by an Bil Sao, you better be good and fast with your Wu Sau like Curly of the three stooges ...
Oh okay
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Do you do Zumba in MMA these days then
well you need something for the walk out.
Lol, guess so.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
you are trying to free your arms he is trying to tie them up. So counter grabbing and hitting are kind of the same thing. Otherwise a hockey fight is not a place you want to go unless you have a head like a brick.
Yes I have a head like a brick. Briefly played European style hockey, but got banned from the school team.
What scenario are you thinking of above?
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
yeah. They grab you hit. They hit. Both of you smash each others heads into hamburger untill one of you drops.
which i would try to avoid. To be honest.
