Anti-Grappling Demos

[storkandrodent]

Please understand this.

There is no anti-grappling in Wing Chun, just as there is no anti-TKD, anti-Judo, anti-kickboxing, anti-MT, or any specific response to a movement from another martial art.

Wing Chun is not a set of techniques. It is not a set of responses to different movements from other martial arts. There is no hard and fast 'If your opponent attacks with A, respond with B'. There are so many martial arts that if Wing Chun had anti-everything, it would be a confused set of one billion techniques. Wing Chun is not this. It is a system that can be adapted to any scenario. It uses its principles of redirection, force absorption, minimum use of brute strength, and maximisation of body weight with movements to overcome attackers of all styles and of all physical strengths.

Wing Chun is a very direct martial art. It trains the practitioner to end a fight in a matter of seconds. Fights start standing up, and a Wing Chun pracititioner of any reasonable skill level will be able to efficiently finish a fight standing up. If you do go to the ground, Wing Chun is still applicable. You can execute all of your movements (besides pivoting of course) and the advantage is that the earth becomes your stance.

If you go out and train grappling for the sake of using it against other grapplers, you will always lose. Why? Because they will be much more experienced than you at it. The aim is to make your opponent play your game, rather than the other way around.

There is no reason to feel intimidated by the over representation of grappling on hyped up television fighting tournaments. Think about this - can a grappler overcome multiple opponents? Will they really be able to take down an opponent twice their size? Can they stop a powerful strike? Can they generate striking power? Wing Chun is capable of all these things and much more.

 

[Cruentus]

A long while back in this thread, I posted an portion of an article from one of our combatives programs in regards to grappling. The point of it was 2-fold; to state that one must remove the psychological aversion or fear of grappling to learn how to counter grappling circumstances, and that the only way to remove that fear and to understand grappling circumstances it to grapple. I think that my point was largely ignored, so I have decided to put it a different way.

The point does not mean that you have to give up your discipline, be it Wing Chun or whatever, to go be an MMA fighter.

This does mean that you have to actually get in there with a qualified grappling instructor (BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, whatever) and at least learn how to maneuver from the different positions (side mount, guard, clinch, etc.) and to at least get some idea of what to do from these positions. Grappling is not about submissions or moves or styles in as much as it is about positioning. You cannot get the positioning, timing, and kinestetic awareness from doing stagnent moves on a cooperative training partner.

I believe that "anti-grappling" was created as a fear based response to the idea of grappling, and of grapplers in general. Instead of facing those fears, some have created a fantasy of how to defeat these feared opponents or how not to get caught in those feared situations. "Anti-grappling" was created from fear, and placates on the fears of other martial artists out there who seek some alternative solution besides simply facing those fears.

And because the anti-grappling movement is a dysfunctional response to fear through the creation of fantasy, people are very emotionally invested in the illusionary notion that these anti-grappling skills trained on stagnent partners would work against a live, resistant opponent. And that is why this thread has degraded, emotions are running high, and insults are slung all around.

That is my opinion on the subject. Take it or leave it. But my opinion is only an opinion, and I haven't been rude in its presentation. So, if it upsets you, then you need to really ask yourself why that is...

 

[Cruentus]

If you go out and train grappling for the sake of using it against other grapplers, you will always lose. Why? Because they will be much more experienced than you at it. The aim is to make your opponent play your game, rather than the other way around.

This gives me the opportunity to isolate one of my points.

You will not be able to isolate a skilled grappler to your game if you do not know the basics of positioning in grappling and how to move in between them or prevent them; this can only be learned through training skills, grappling skills, against a live, resistant person.

I don't need to be a better grappler then my opponent to win the fight, but I better at least know how to grapple.

 

[Ali Rahim]

This gives me the opportunity to isolate one of my points.

You will not be able to isolate a skilled grappler to your game if you do not know the basics of positioning in grappling and how to move in between them or prevent them; this can only be learned through training skills, grappling skills, against a live, resistant person.

I don't need to be a better grappler then my opponent to win the fight, but I better at least know how to grapple.

He has a very good point there… I started wrestling in Jr. high School and through collage level and also became a high school wrestling coach… I never had any problem knocking out any grapplers because of that fact; they simply couldn’t out wrestle me.

Ali.

 

[storkandrodent]

The answer is to spar with grapplers to gain awareness of what they might do. I have sparred with very experienced practitioners of different grappling styles, and none of them were able to take me to the ground. Even when I held still and allowed them to grab one of my arms, I could still subdue them with simple Siu Nim Tau movements.

I don't need to be a better grappler then my opponent to win the fight, but I better at least know how to grapple.

Better at least know how to grapple? For what purpose if you're not going to be using grappling against a grappler?

Unless your goal is to train Wing Chun for the UFC, then the answer is to stop idolising MMA fighters from televised tournaments and focus on improving your skill in Wing Chun and sparring awareness against all types of attackers.

 

[Cruentus]

The answer is to spar with grapplers to gain awareness of what they might do.

That is definatily a good start. All I am saying is that one needs to work against a live resisting opponent, and to gain some rudimentary understanding of grappling and positioning so one can defend. I don't see what has been marketed as "anti-grappling" addressing these problems in that way. That doesn't mean that Wing Chun can't address the problem, however, if approached properly.

 

[Marvin]

There is no reason to feel intimidated by the over representation of grappling on hyped up television fighting tournaments. Think about this - can a grappler overcome multiple opponents? Will they really be able to take down an opponent twice their size? Can they stop a powerful strike? Can they generate striking power? Wing Chun is capable of all these things and much more.

Can any MA do those things? Really...? Grappling is not a be all end all. It is a big part of over fighting, your stand up and clinch game must be realistic as well. But a person must have realistic ideas and expectations of what they can do. That can only be found by training with a resisting opponent that is trying to stop you from doing your thing and at the same time trying to do there thing. Like Cruentus said allot of this stuff is made up from fear, "fear of the unknown" and the inability to let go of one's ego. It is hard for some people that are high levels in an art to accept that they may have holes in their game, I mean, after all, it took a lot of hard work to get there right? So instead of acknowledging that there may be something lacking in there training or worse yet that their training was not very functional, they may grab onto or invent something that looks like it might work. Just never assume what you are doing functionally works.

 

[Cruentus]

Marvin makes a good point that I think people forget, in that grappling is really a range or a context of a fight, not a seperate art or style. So to say, "I don't train grappling" or "I don't need to learn grappling skills because I can use anti-grappling" would be like saying "I don't train striking," or "I don't need to learn striking skills because I can just wrestle or throw a person."

There are arts that seem to train that way, like Aikido for example. But all the good Aikido players that posessed any skill that would work in the real world that I have met all had some striking skills, an understanding of how a striker (be it wing chun or boxing or what have you) would come at them, and how they would handle that range and context. Similarly, I have met wing chun people who understand basic grappling skills, and how the context of that fighting range will go so they can try to arrange the fight to remain in their prefered striking/trapping range.

And they didn't need to put up false presumptions to learn these skills, and they didn't need to abandon wing chun. They just simply trained with some skilled grapplers, and learned that range and context.

 

[Si-Je]

I see alot of people complain that those that practice anti-grappling don't train enough with a "resisting" opponent. Anti-grappling utilizes Wing Chun principles, concepts, and style on the ground. Thus, a resisting opponent would only make the anti-grappling techniques more effective.

Just like when standing using wing chun principles, an opponent that tenses, uses force, brute strength, and such the anti-grappling techinques simply re-direct the opponent's force just like when standing.

The man that developed the anti-grappling studied wrestling, BJJ, Ju-Jitsu and such before he came up with the anti-grappling. These types of styles have been studied and understood by the founder of this ground fighting system. There really is no need to study other grappling styles to be effective with the anti-grappling. Just practice and "play" with it, and experiement with other stylists, and partners.

 

[jsampras3]

I have to respond to Si-Jie (in a respectful way of course).

I think you need to do a little more BJJ work, because you fundamentally don't understand how BJJ works.

Much of BJJ deals with how to AVOID being between your legs. If i am between your legs, i am in your "guard" and you are in the best situation you can be when you are on the bottom. There are ZERO submissions/chokes/armbars i can do from your guard. Not one.

Edit: I forgot one more thing. If I have my legs around you, there are MANY chokes/armbars/other submissions i can do to you. So having your legs around someone is actually very good for you. If you trained more grappling, you would realize this and fight more effectively on the ground

What other people have tried to explain is the only way to do submissions is to AVOID being in between your legs, or if I am stuck there get out and either sit on top of you with my knees around your body (mount position) or on your stomach facing sideways (side control/crossbody).

You seem to have no idea what a BJJ person's goals are or how they would fight. This seems strange because you claim to spar with BJJ people all the time and defeat them regularly. This tells me that you are either inflating your claims, need to train with some competent BJJ people or need to try to understand BJJ a little better.

If Wing Chun people have no idea what grapplers are trying to do, how can you be sure that your anti-grapples will work?

 

[Si-Je]

1. I trained Goshin Ju-Jitsu for 3 years. I know the entries, and the stratagies behind Ju-Jitsu. Although we diddn't call it "grappling". And we didn't shoot face first into your knees and try to force a takedown. We threw you off a punch or grab. We worked to stay on your side, and such. Yes, I'm aware of this mentality. But, it's flawed in a practical sense. Your opponent is going to hit and kick you with their other hand while your trying to armbar them, and while your using all this energy to get around their body to the side. I'll tell you from personal experience. When the guy is six footish 250 lbs. thats a long walk on the mats to their side, especially when their fighting you. I still have to manuver past legs twice as long as mine, and well whatever. It takes too much time and energy. And while your trying to do all this your getting hit, kneed, kicked, head butted, whatever.

2. Every time I've trained or worked with a grappler, they want to try to shoot into my waist, knees, or torso and wrestle me to the ground. They do this with much speed and confidence, and when they eat a knee to the face they don't argue that they can "take" that strike. That's why we have them wear face shields so there is no arguement. They feel the hits and how they are re-directed and unable to excecute their intended technique. It's wing chun principles on the ground. You don't need to know the specifics of other fighting style to use it effectively.

3. This "guard position is severely flawed. Locking your ankles around your attackers back does not put you in an intelligent position to defend. Your opponent can still strike you, eye gouge you, ear slap, chop the throat, choke you, and armbar. Plus, if they outweigh you, you've got their entire bodyweight on your chest and stomach. Plus, my hubbies 6'4", I'm 5'5", I can't even lock my ankles around his back, so this "guard position" is impractical for true self-defense. For my chances of being attacked by someone my size are slim. The anti-grappling keeps them off me, allows me to deflect punches, tan sau out of arm bars, use sensitivity to use their weight and force to get them off me and back on my feet.

4. I know many feel that BJJ is something "new" and improved, but it's not. It's a rehash and over-simplification of Ju-Jitsu which has been around for centuries. minus the 80 standing throws, standing chokes, standing armbars, standing joint locks (tate dori) striking and kicking. Personally, I'm not interested in someone trying to sell to me that I should or even could get a running start and throw myself at some big guys tree trunk legs and magickally take them down without hurting myself. Or even worse, grabbing their shoulders or midsection and twisting and trying to trip them to get the take down while I'm getting punched, elbowed, or just plain picked up and body slammed. I'm a buck 10, and easy to throw or pick up. Lets be realistic.

5. When I trained Japanese Ju-Jitsu I'd never use BJJ. Now that I've been training the anti-grappling I'll never use Japanese Ju-Jitsu again. Don't need to, found a better way for me. Whatever works for you is fine for you, I know what works for me.
Peace out

 

[Andrew Green]

Much of BJJ deals with how to AVOID being between your legs. If i am between your legs, i am in your "guard" and you are in the best situation you can be when you are on the bottom. There are ZERO submissions/chokes/armbars i can do from your guard. Not one.

Sure there are, lots of leg locks. And if you are fighting a untrained person, there are gi-chokes as well, but most trained fighters will be able to avoid these.

Of course ground and pound tactics are definately in favour of the top guy

And we didn't shoot face first into your knees and try to force a takedown. We threw you off a punch or grab.

I think this is a sign of someone that has either spent all there time starting from there knees, or training sport grappling only. As dangerous if no rules fighting is your goal as is ignoring the ground IMO.

2. Every time I've trained or worked with a grappler, they want to try to shoot into my waist, knees, or torso and wrestle me to the ground. They do this with much speed and confidence, and when they eat a knee to the face they don't argue that they can "take" that strike.

Again, I think that is a sign of inexperience. If you are training to take down someone that is striking you, those things are trained as well. I don't know what the skill level of the people you where working against is, but my guess is that they are not very good with takedowns in a MMA / no rules situation.

Which, of course, is as dangerous as ignoring such things.

3. This "guard position is severely flawed. Locking your ankles around your attackers back does not put you in an intelligent position to defend. Your opponent can still strike you, eye gouge you, ear slap, chop the throat, choke you, and armbar.

There is a lot more to guard then you describe, it is not a static position, but a very active one, especially when you do not have control of the upper body.

That, and if you have a skilled fighter you will not be able to choke then from within there guard, and armbars are impossible regardless.

Plus, if they outweigh you, you've got their entire bodyweight on your chest and stomach. Plus, my hubbies 6'4", I'm 5'5", I can't even lock my ankles around his back, so this "guard position" is impractical for true self-defense. For my chances of being attacked by someone my size are slim. The anti-grappling keeps them off me, allows me to deflect punches, tan sau out of arm bars, use sensitivity to use their weight and force to get them off me and back on my feet.

If they outweigh you, you're likely going to end up on your back whether you like it or not. "Guard position" as you call it in no way requires locking your feet. Most grappling instructors will even tell you to avoid doing that for the most part.

4. I know many feel that BJJ is something "new" and improved, but it's not. It's a rehash and over-simplification of Ju-Jitsu which has been around for centuries.

Older then that, the Greeks where doing Pankration thousands of years ago, and I imagine grappling predates them by quite a bit as well

Your understanding of grappling seems rather shallow too be honest. You might equivicate it too me saying all Kung Fu guys are easy to beat, they strike a fancy pose and do a fancy kick, you can just close, clinch and pound them or take them down.

The tactics you describe will not work against a trained fighter, a low level sport grappler maybe, but someone with "no rules" training? Not likely. And the tactics you ascribe to the grappers are rather shallow in your understaning of what we actually do. ex Guard is not simply hook your feet behind there back. That is silly in ineffective, we know that. We don't actually just hook are feet and call it a day.

Go back and watch some of the early no rules events, many of the strategies you describe where tried, and failed misserably. Since then many of been tried in training, tried to adapt them and make them work, and again, many of them have been tossed out after being tried as inpractical.

 

[Si-Je]

I've watched the fights, MMA, UFC, etc. The Ju-Jitsu I took did not submit, we went for the break.

I didn't state any specific technique to defend against grapplers other than stating the use of anti-grappling and wing chun principles.
And it seems that every time I mention training and sparring with MMA fighters and grapplers on line people immediately down their skill level. Someone they've never met and assume that just because I've defended myself successfully against grapplers with wing chun and anti-grappling, that the grappler must have been some trash opponent. I find this very rude to the people I train with, and offensive to myself.

Just because I could thwart a grappler with wing chun then he/she must have been a low level or terrible grappler. Pretty insulting. Since to make such an assuption about these grapplers and myself is basically stating that I'm a joke, and these friends of mine are not good at what they train.

Point of the matter is. It doesn't matter if I understand BJJ or grappling, this is not required for me to defend effectively against it. Sensitivity, and weight distrubution are key. As for the arm bars and such. I have a pretty extensive knowledge with joint locks and choke holds. Far more technical than what is used in BJJ. They work too hard for the joint lock, don't utilize control of the wrist, and use more movement and muscle than is necessary for execution even of the most basic joint locks in Ju-Jitsu.

And I do agree that it is very likely that a larger opponent will eventually get me personally to the ground. How much they pay for taking me down decides if it is worthwile to them to do so. Which I use anti-grappling techniques right away, which not only buys me time to get out of a grappling position, but plain hurts my opponent.

I understand grappling, but I really don't think that many of the nay sayers of anti-grappling have ever trained it, or fought against it. You've just decided that it doesn'r work by judging what you think you see happening in videos. These are instructional even, try some of it on the mats, experiment with it. You missing out on good stuff, promise.

 

[Andrew Green]

It doesn't matter if I understand BJJ or grappling, this is not required for me to defend effectively against it.

I think I have just found the biggest flaw in your plan.

really don't think that many of the nay sayers of anti-grappling have ever trained it, or fought against it.

You'd be wrong, if something seems at all plausable, it gets tried and tested. That's part of the package with a sport based system. If someone puts something on the table, it gets tried. Because if I find something that works that no one else has, that is a big advantage for me. As a result, many things get tested, some work, some don't.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I agree with the concept that if you want to defend against an attack, you must understand the attack. The mindset, strategy and tactics of the opponent must be studied in order to create a successful defense.

Yet even the best laid plans fail due to variables.

This is a general comment not directed at anyone.

The heart of the matter is the following:

nothing works all the time. some things work better than others for different people.

You plan of action should be tailored to the environment of the situation, i.e. sport, self defense, etc.

Whatever you practice, if it developps the skills you want and fill your criteria for efficiency, effectiveness and fun, then keep at it.

And again, no plan of action is appropiate for all situations and/or is not the optimal plan for a certain objective.

That being said, against the same skilled opponent (olympic level grappler), I've had 50-50 success rate with "anti-grappling" tactics (not the same as WT anti-grappling... some similarities though). Also, I've taught him certain Chin-Na technologies that helped him get a competitive edge and almost beat the #1 National Judo player here (ran out of steam and lost by points... better luck next time!).

The same I use for better control of opponent.

The times he got me, he adapted and I didn't adapt in time.

Sometimes I misjudged his forward momentum, braced and he got better control...

Does it mean that my strategy doesn't work... no.

It means I need more practice and more experience as to missjudge less and be accurate more.

Hope this helps.

Juan M. Mercado

 

[MJS]

Point of the matter is. It doesn't matter if I understand BJJ or grappling, this is not required for me to defend effectively against it. Sensitivity, and weight distrubution are key. As for the arm bars and such. I have a pretty extensive knowledge with joint locks and choke holds. Far more technical than what is used in BJJ. They work too hard for the joint lock, don't utilize control of the wrist, and use more movement and muscle than is necessary for execution even of the most basic joint locks in Ju-Jitsu.

I agree and disagree with this comment. Let me explain. There are defenses to a number of attacks in many arts. In Kenpo for example, we have club, knife, grab defenses as well as ones against armlocks, chokes and tackles. IMO, if someone really wants to test something, or have a better understanding of it, it may be a good idea to seek out an art that specializes in an area. We can have someone shoot in on us, but if they're not shooting like a solid grappler would, whats going to happen with my defense, should I encounter someone that can really shoot?

Don't misunderstand this as my saying the defenses will not work. Yes, they do work, but your defense of something will greatly improve if you understand how someone operates. I'm not saying to necessarily cross train, but to cross reference other arts.

By training in BJJ and Arnis, my grappling and over all ground game and defense has improved, as well as my weapon work. The FMAs are very solid with their weapons. I've come to understand the blade much, much more and have adapted some of their ideas into my Kenpo weapon work.

Much of BJJ deals with how to AVOID being between your legs. If i am between your legs, i am in your "guard" and you are in the best situation you can be when you are on the bottom. There are ZERO submissions/chokes/armbars i can do from your guard. Not one.

So you're saying there are no leg locks that can be done from here? With all due respect, I beg to differ on that.

Mike

 

[monji112000]

This isn't a complicated subject. If you want to be effective against a opponent, then you must train with that opponent. If you have no “real” experience with that opponent then you will start basing your technique on nonsense.


If you want to compete in Muy Thai tournaments, then I would suggest going and training with them. See if your techniques can handle the it, and if they can't try to find why and see if you can fix it. Some people would just add whatever method they find to fix the problem or others would go back and see how they don't 100% understand Wing Chun.
Sometimes Wing Chun doesn't answer the question directly for MANY reasons( and maybe not at all).


Its just common sense, a Skilled BJJ fighter (it would seem that striking is normal in BJJ) could really hurt most people. I would say the same about Muy Thai, boxing, and misc style like Catch can . Why? I honestly don't think technique plays as much into the equation as people think. If you look at the level of training, time , and “aliveness” that these “styles”/sports require you will quickly understand why they dominate.
Technique flaws are very quickly seen when you use them in “almost” real situations constantly.


Its night and day , lets face it most of us don't have the time, effort or even knowledge to start training in the manner they do. Instead of saying we don't have anything to learn from them, why not admit to our loss. I would also suggest learning about modern training methods. Seeing how they can help. Most Wing Chun schools/ students don't train how our seniors did. 6 days a week, 5 hours a day , constant fighting (real) , constant aliveness training.


So the Ant-grappling vrs Grappling questions isn't really a question. Wing Chun vrs BJJ ect..


Its the fighter (and his training methods) vrs. the fighter (and his training methods).


All BS put aside.

 

[Si-Je]

I see your desire to understand other types of fighting styles. I assure you that I have trained other styles pretty extensively. Tang soo do for three years, goshin ju-jitsu up to brown belt, other styles of kung fu, kali, and many other styles.
I've been to BJJ seminars, I've sparred with a young man who is on the varsity wrestling team at his school, fights in MMA cage fights, this is one of the grapplers I practice with on occasion.
He doesn't like alot of our techniques with anti-grappling because they're against the rules of MMA and cage fighting.
But, he still can't get through the kicking, stance, and chi sau on the ground that we use to defend even though we've shown him how we do it. He still uses American wrestling and BJJ.
This is one example of the people we "cross-train" with.
I do agree you must train your techniques as often as possible and as realisticly as possible.

As for having a grappler who truely shoots into us in training. The grapplers we've sparred with have learned very quickly that the harder they shoot the harder they get hit. (hense all the head gear we wear) So, they try to get smarter about it, they try to shoot into our side. So, we use basic stance (horse, whatever) and do not give them our side. Our punching technique doesn't comit us to forward movement or throw our weight into the punch so we can immediately adapt to the movement of the opponent. Chain punching is static, it doesn't give the opponent wieght to throw or work with.

I have great faith through experience and training that WT anti-grappling will work for me. I've started to learn how to get out of armbars while on the ground, standing, and such using simple wing chun movements. This cannot be taught through videos, trust me. You have to do it and feel it.
The best defense against a grappler or ju-jitsu (when I say ju-jitsu, I mean Japanese stylist) or BJJ is simple relaxation. They want you to tense up. I remember from when I trained ju-jitsu. We liked the tense, and resisting opponent, it made the joint lock come easier.
If you relax your body and limbs, it allows you to adapt faster to joint pressure, buys you time to change your position, and makes it more difficult for them to flex your joint and cause pain or submission.

Of course, while you relax you are striking, kicking, corkscrewing your entire body, kneeing, elbowing the opponent, keeping pressure on them to keep them from regrouping for another angle of attack. Constantly moving, flowing, and adapting. For those of you who train wing chun, one of the key principles of wing chun is relaxation, to be fluid like water. Always ever changing and adapting. If you do not understand this key principle of wing chun then you do not understand wing chun. This is so crutial, that it will decide your fate of failure or victory.

And again, I will reiterate. If you don't have any confidence in what your training, it will fail. If you concentrate more on what others are training then you will not fully understand what you are training. If your constantly thinking about what your attacker might, should, or probably will try to do to you, you give them that opportunity to execute it. Train, understand, and have confidence in what you know. Don't hesitate and use it, don't think, don't stratigize, react, and roll with what is given you. Your training to stress out about what MIGHT happen in a fight, which is a waste of energy. Don't anticipate, anything. Your opponents skill, style, statagy, strength, or weaknesses. Stay open for opportunities and capitalize on them when you reconize them. Another key principle of Wing Chun. DON'T ANTICIPATE THE OUTCOME OF THE ENGAGEMENT. Don't anticipate anything. Just be.

 

[MJS]

I see your desire to understand other types of fighting styles. I assure you that I have trained other styles pretty extensively. Tang soo do for three years, goshin ju-jitsu up to brown belt, other styles of kung fu, kali, and many other styles.
I've been to BJJ seminars, I've sparred with a young man who is on the varsity wrestling team at his school, fights in MMA cage fights, this is one of the grapplers I practice with on occasion.
He doesn't like alot of our techniques with anti-grappling because they're against the rules of MMA and cage fighting.
But, he still can't get through the kicking, stance, and chi sau on the ground that we use to defend even though we've shown him how we do it. He still uses American wrestling and BJJ.
This is one example of the people we "cross-train" with.
I do agree you must train your techniques as often as possible and as realisticly as possible.

As for having a grappler who truely shoots into us in training. The grapplers we've sparred with have learned very quickly that the harder they shoot the harder they get hit. (hense all the head gear we wear) So, they try to get smarter about it, they try to shoot into our side. So, we use basic stance (horse, whatever) and do not give them our side. Our punching technique doesn't comit us to forward movement or throw our weight into the punch so we can immediately adapt to the movement of the opponent. Chain punching is static, it doesn't give the opponent wieght to throw or work with.

I have great faith through experience and training that WT anti-grappling will work for me. I've started to learn how to get out of armbars while on the ground, standing, and such using simple wing chun movements. This cannot be taught through videos, trust me. You have to do it and feel it.
The best defense against a grappler or ju-jitsu (when I say ju-jitsu, I mean Japanese stylist) or BJJ is simple relaxation. They want you to tense up. I remember from when I trained ju-jitsu. We liked the tense, and resisting opponent, it made the joint lock come easier.
If you relax your body and limbs, it allows you to adapt faster to joint pressure, buys you time to change your position, and makes it more difficult for them to flex your joint and cause pain or submission.

Of course, while you relax you are striking, kicking, corkscrewing your entire body, kneeing, elbowing the opponent, keeping pressure on them to keep them from regrouping for another angle of attack. Constantly moving, flowing, and adapting. For those of you who train wing chun, one of the key principles of wing chun is relaxation, to be fluid like water. Always ever changing and adapting. If you do not understand this key principle of wing chun then you do not understand wing chun. This is so crutial, that it will decide your fate of failure or victory.

Ok, good points. It seems that you're already doing what I mentioned in my post, so I give you props for that.

And again, I will reiterate. If you don't have any confidence in what your training, it will fail. If you concentrate more on what others are training then you will not fully understand what you are training. If your constantly thinking about what your attacker might, should, or probably will try to do to you, you give them that opportunity to execute it. Train, understand, and have confidence in what you know. Don't hesitate and use it, don't think, don't stratigize, react, and roll with what is given you. Your training to stress out about what MIGHT happen in a fight, which is a waste of energy. Don't anticipate, anything. Your opponents skill, style, statagy, strength, or weaknesses. Stay open for opportunities and capitalize on them when you reconize them. Another key principle of Wing Chun. DON'T ANTICIPATE THE OUTCOME OF THE ENGAGEMENT. Don't anticipate anything. Just be.

Oh, I do have faith in what I train in. After 21yrs in Kenpo, if I wasn't happy or confident, I think I'd have switched arts by now. I love crosstraining. All of my instructors and workout partners crosstrain, so its hard to not get involved in that mix. Between my Kenpo for my standup, BJJ for my ground work and Arnis for weapon work, IMHO, I feel that my needs are met very well. Again, its not that I don't have faith, but I a) want to further expand on certain areas, and b) the 3 that I mention blend together very well.

Mike

 

[Si-Je]

I don't cross train other arts. Simply sparr with them. I don't train wing chun and then go to a BJJ class and train their style of ground fighting. Just Wing Chun.
I studied Tang so do exclusively for three years, japanese ju-jitsu exclusively for 4 years, and now wing chun exclusively for 4 years now.

My hubbie and my other instructor discect wing chun movements and apply them in sparring with other stylists. And if it needs improvement then they do so.
They don't cross train in other arts. Both have studied martial arts for over 20 years.
My hubbie has a black belt in Okinawan Kempo, studied in Japan and the states, has rank in Judo, Kendo, twice rank in Wing Chun from two masters.
My other instructor has rank in wing chun and Savate, and a black belt in Kempo and Chinese wrestling. They studied these arts exclusively when they trained them, for a full understanding of the arts.
Our ground fighting consists of WT anti-grappling, some marine corps stuff, chinese wrestling, and what seems to work consistantly.
Reguardless of all the other arts trained we primarily focus on Wing Chun. Use Wing Chun, and train exclusively Wing Chun. And follow Wing Chun principles.
I truely wish I could have started training Wing Chun earlier in my life instead of the other arts I trained. They were just the best I felt were available at the time. For 10 years I wanted to train wing chun, just never had a school close enough to me until these past 4 years. Sure would have made my past experiences defending myself much easier. lol!

p.s. The anti-grappling videos shown in this thread are 10 years old. This was filmed when anti-grappling was just beginning. It has evolved and been even more refined since then. Just something to concider.