Wing Chun grappling

[Kung Fu Wang]

collar tie escape.

No need to escape a "collar tie". If your opponent wants to tie your collar, you just tie his arms.

 

[Transk53]

No need to escape a "collar tie". If your opponent wants to tie your collar, you just tie his arms.

What would you maybe do then after. Hook his knee, sweep the ankle, or smash a low kick through it. Headbut would seem obvious?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What would you maybe do then after. Hook his knee, sweep the ankle, or smash a low kick through it. Headbut would seem obvious?

Since my opponent's contact points can also give me some free contact points, to break away his contact points seems to be a big waste. If he wants to bend his arms to control my head, I would help him to bend his arms more than he would like to. If my opponent uses his arms to wrap around my body, it gives me a chance to use my arms to wrap around his arms along with his body. To me, this is called the "octopus strategy".

This is what I will do.

 

[drop bear]

No need to escape a "collar tie". If your opponent wants to tie your collar, you just tie his arms.

i cant find the escape but you wind up with a good arm control from it.

 

[Transk53]

Since my opponent's contact points can also give me some free contact points, to break away his contact points seems to be a big waste. If he wants to bend his arms to control my head, I would help him to bend his arms more than he would like to. If my opponent uses his arms to wrap around my body, it gives me a chance to use my arms to wrap around his arms along with his body. To me, this is called the "octopus strategy".

This is what I will do.

Yes nice takedown. I would probably not do that though. Going to submission straight away is boring. Just my own personal opinion, yours is very relevant

 

[drop bear]

the arm control from a head grab

 

[drop bear]

Since my opponent's contact points can also give me some free contact points, to break away his contact points seems to be a big waste. If he wants to bend his arms to control my head, I would help him to bend his arms more than he would like to. If my opponent uses his arms to wrap around my body, it gives me a chance to use my arms to wrap around his arms along with his body. To me, this is called the "octopus strategy".

This is what I will do.

i think if you were fighting for that you would find he has better structure. And might even win that throw.

 

[Transk53]

the arm control from a head grab

It won't play. You need a head guard, you are in trouble mate. Don't let them get near you're head. There is know need

 

[drop bear]

It won't play. You need a head guard, you are in trouble mate. Don't let them get near you're head. There is know need

sorry what are you getting at?

 

[Transk53]

sorry what are you getting at?

Sorry fella and no disrespect, I probably mistook the term. What I meant was the not getting near the head in the first place.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

i think if you were fighting for that you would find he has better structure. And might even win that throw.

The "structure" is the key. During a "clinch", If

- you can crash your opponent's structure, you win.
- your opponent can crash your structure, he wins.

When you try to take your opponent down in one direction, if you feel that his resistance is too strong, you should borrow his force, and try to take him down toward the opposite direction. IMO, all take down should be trained in pairs and in reverse directions.

 

[drop bear]

Sorry fella and no disrespect, I probably mistook the term. What I meant was the not getting near the head in the first place.

that is what i thought but i wanted to be sure. You are concerned that the head is open to a butt or a bite?

one of the methods to avoid a strike is to create space. Another is to deny space. With my head under their chin like that i win the head fight. I can butt and from a wrestling point of view i can control his head.

if he wants to take a bite out of my forehead then it will end worse for him.

 

[Transk53]

that is what i thought but i wanted to be sure. You are concerned that the head is open to a butt or a bite?

one of the methods to avoid a strike is to create space. Another is to deny space. With my head under their chin like that i win the head fight. I can butt and from a wrestling point of view i can control his head.

if he wants to take a bite out of my forehead then it will end worse for him.

The headbut really, they are not nice, but seem worse the older you get lol.

 

[TSDTexan]

I just wanted to chime in. I read earlier in the thread...
Some lineages of wing chun are teaching very dogmatically that "wing chun" is pure striking.

However this is historically inaccurate. There are many linages that preserve their Wing Chun Chin Na. Red Boaters were almost like mma in technique proliferation. They simply chose to keep things that integrated well with the Kuen Kuit doctrines.

But you would be surprised how much Chin Na is in the Wing Chun forms.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thanks for the video. I starting to think the founder of Jow Ga ran into a lot of Wing Chun practitioners. The way that we grab and apply chi na isn't the same way that you are showing. This isn't a comment on the effectiveness of what you are showing, just a realization about my fighting system that I'm starting to see.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I used to really enjoy learning the chin na aspects of various martial arts. Then I learned wing chun. Much simpler to just strike!!!

The thing about Chin Na is that you have be conditioned to use it. A lot of it will be useless to you if you don't have the finger and grip strength to apply it.

Mind you, you're very, very unlikely to ever be mugged by someone trying to execute a standing wristlock on you. The best reason for wanting to learn the counters to these techniques is that you want to learn how to apply them effectively and you need to learn the counters that you are going to beat.)

Agree. Which leads back to my statement that China requires condition and strengthening in order to use. Even within the martial arts world very people spend time to do so.

My point is/was: I won't waste my time attempting to counter-grab when I have tools available that could problem solve much faster (ie I just simply strike you)

For the most part this is probably correct right up until the opponent is someone who does Bjj, judo, or wrestling. BJJ has proven time and time again the value of being able to get out of a grab or better yet prevent it from happening. Striking can't punch out of everything. This guy fails to prevent the grab, then fails to escape from the grab. It's up to you on how you want to fight just understand where you are weak (skills aren't developed) and prevent your opponent from fighting where you are weak.

This WC guy actually tries to keep it simple, by punching a grab. The fact that Chin Na exists shows an understanding within kung fu that every attack cannot be solved with a punch.

 

[PiedmontChun]

By no means do I have expertise in grappling, but in both of those videos- I saw no attempt to draw the supporting leg backward making the grappler's hold on it more difficult, nor any attempt to push down on the head. That would possibly be my go-to as a non-grappler.
That second video the guy was trying to hook under the other guys arms.... Are they allowed to at least push on the back of the head even if they can't strike it in these rulesets?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

By no means do I have expertise in grappling, but in both of those videos- I saw no attempt to draw the supporting leg backward making the grappler's hold on it more difficult, nor any attempt to push down on the head. That would possibly be my go-to as a non-grappler.
That second video the guy was trying to hook under the other guys arms.... Are they allowed to at least push on the back of the head even if they can't strike it in these rulesets?

Pushing on the back of the head is permitted and a component of certain takedown defenses. Of course you need to be in proper position to do that effectively and the gentlemen being taken down in those videos were out of position to do so.

Drawing your legs back i.e. sprawling is another very important element of takedown defense. However it works a lot better if you start before your opponent has firm control of both your legs.

Basically, neither of the guys being take down in those two videos seemed to have any clue about takedown defense and that's not really something you can make up on the fly against a skilled wrestler.

 

[Marnetmar]

Is it me or do a good chunk of these WC guys that get in the ring seem to have no clue grappling even exists in the first place? That poor Malaysian sap literally walked right into a double leg. I thought it was basic common sense that grapplers aren't going to be trying to play hands with you.

 

[drop bear]

Is it me or do a good chunk of these WC guys that get in the ring seem to have no clue grappling even exists in the first place? That poor Malaysian sap literally walked right into a double leg.

Chun trained traditionally is a bit crap for grappling. Doing mma the rule of avoiding grapplers is not to stand close firing off long combinations of strikes.