why are people so tramatized about mcdojos ?

[celtic_crippler]

My thoughts and feelings echo many already mentioned.

Whether it's a martial art, or anything else... those who sacrifice to become something special, something more than they were...something more than the average Joe tend to take offense to those that come along pretending to offer the same reward for basically little to no effort. Put simply, in many ways it cheapens their accomplishment.

One thing that really chaps my butt is the lack of responsibility of the instructors of these institutions. They are selling something that claims to be a form of "self-defense" yet not giving their students the tools they will need to actually defend themselves.

Instructors are responsible, to a large degree, for the safety of their students. If you go instilling false confidence in your students then you are responsible for any injuries or deaths that result in said student(s) when it comes time for them to rely on what you've taught them.

Granted, most people would prefer to take the easy way...always...therefore, the success of many McDojos. Their thinking is that they can get a "black belt" over there in 12 months so why take 5 years over here? They don't understand the difference and only want the title of "black belt" so they take the easy way, not really learning anything substantial. But hey, it doesn't matter because they can call themselves a "black belt."

So, if you're teaching watered down garbage for the sake of a dollar... and marketing it as "self defense"... let's just say you will get absolutely no respect from me.

 

[Steve]

After having started multiple threads on mcdojos, it's a little retarded to expect a conversation on something else.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I am not even going to read the other replies I will simply answer the Opening post

They do a disservice to there students
They deceive the public
They leave a bad taste in the mouth of all those who have worked so hard to perfect there art to the point they feel they can pass on knowledge to others
They are frauds and should be shut down but our laws today will not allow us to close them in the old ways

 

[MJS]

never have never will - i got lucky : from the gate i was messing with some dudes i knew were heavy duty and i picked up game from them nothing was a waste of time , and its not that its defensive it just sounds lame ? HOW MANY HERE HATE MCDOJOS FOR GIVING BBs AWAY IN RAFFLES ... or what ever ... im a about to send a shipment of tissue to MT fourm headquarters and find some of you guys a shoulder to cry on. i could see it now a bunch of MT fourm members picketing outside a so called MCDOJO

signs would read :

mcdojos
are a rash
stop giving them black belts
for cash $$$$$$

6 months of training
is way to short
stop giving belt$
or will take you to court

hey
the kid is only 5
giving him a black belt
i$ nothing but jive

:toilclaw:

And yet another trollish post. I've taken the liberty to report this BTW. Of course, going by how defensive you get about the subject, I think its safe to assume that you are in favor of them, and support what they do.

 

[The Last Legionary]

If you don't like it here that much leech-boy, no one has a gun to your greasy little head forcing you to come here. I've yet to read much if anything of value come from your fingers, and judging by the number of red dots you got there, it seems most folks here think as highly of you as they do what a stray leaves on their lawn after eating a triple bean burrito. I've added a little something to your score that reflects my own opinion of you. Enjoy.

 

[suicide]

And yet another trollish post. I've taken the liberty to report this BTW. Of course, going by how defensive you get about the subject, I think its safe to assume that you are in favor of them, and support what they do.

report what ? that some of you got personal vendettas against mcdojos ? relax mr nieghborhood watch ... the only thing im in favor is my personal development in the MARTIAL ARTS , what makes you think i have to agree with you and with what you got to say ? just because you got a million post doesnt make you grandmaster with the most rightous knowledge.

 

[suicide]

If you don't like it here that much leech-boy, no one has a gun to your greasy little head forcing you to come here. I've yet to read much if anything of value come from your fingers, and judging by the number of red dots you got there, it seems most folks here think as highly of you as they do what a stray leaves on their lawn after eating a triple bean burrito. I've added a little something to your score that reflects my own opinion of you. Enjoy.

who said i dont like it here ? i love it here ... leech boy ? no need for name calling sir and ill keep coming here no matter what you gotta say or how many bean burritos you got on your mind laid out on your nieghbors lawn ... and as for your score - well you know how that goes ! o yeah and your opinion just went down along side something i just flushed ALOHA !

 

[Cirdan]

who said i dont like it here ? i love it here ... leech boy ? no need for name calling sir and ill keep coming here no matter what you gotta say or how many bean burritos you got on your mind laid out on your nieghbors lawn ... and as for your score - well you know how that goes ! o yeah and your opinion just went down along side something i just flushed ALOHA !

I think you and still_learning (only person ever to grace my ignore list) are the same guy. Same nonsense, same failure at building coherent sentences. Take your McBS and go away.

 

[Sukerkin]

This is just a friendly word in the hope that we won't have to start an official ball rolling on this - it would be appreciated if people would refrain from inflamming each other into infraction in this thread.

It is a topic that can be discussed with civility and opions can be expressed without descending into personal insult or, indeed, board-wide insult.

If it proves impossible for some to realise that the simple rules of polite conversation are not a strength of theirs, then there will be official encouragement to come to that recognition and learn how to interact within the accepted rules.

We'd really far rather people came to such a realisation on their own.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator

 

[MJS]

report what ? that some of you got personal vendettas against mcdojos ? relax mr nieghborhood watch ... the only thing im in favor is my personal development in the MARTIAL ARTS , what makes you think i have to agree with you and with what you got to say ? just because you got a million post doesnt make you grandmaster with the most rightous knowledge.

Report what? Your trollish posts, thats what.

Personal vendetta? I doubt it. I stated my opinions, you fail to state yours. I ask why, you fail to reply.

Mr. Neighborhood watch: Nice. Yes, as an Admin here, it is my job to watch over the forum. If you dont like that, you can a) leave or b) speak with Bob Hubbard, the owner of the forum. If I'm doing something that I shouldn't be, he'll let me know. BTW, I've reported this post as well.

Agreeing with me: You dont have to. I disagree with other people on here. I'm simply asking you to state why you think mcdojos are ok. To date, you've failed to do that.

A million posts: Cant you read? Its far from a million. And the GM 'rank' is the rank on the forum. Has nothing to do with real life.

Knowledge: Never said I knew it all. I've been here for quite some time, voicing my opinions. I've been complimented many times by people on my posts. As proof of that, you'll notice all the pretty little green dots I have, compared to the pretty red ones you have.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

never have never will - i got lucky : from the gate i was messing with some dudes i knew were heavy duty and i picked up game from them nothing was a waste of time , and its not that its defensive it just sounds lame ? HOW MANY HERE HATE MCDOJOS FOR GIVING BBs AWAY IN RAFFLES ... or what ever ... im a about to send a shipment of tissue to MT fourm headquarters and find some of you guys a shoulder to cry on. i could see it now a bunch of MT fourm members picketing outside a so called MCDOJO

signs would read :

mcdojos
are a rash
stop giving them black belts
for cash $$$$$$

6 months of training
is way to short
stop giving belt$
or will take you to court

hey
the kid is only 5
giving him a black belt
i$ nothing but jive

:toilclaw:

You started this thread, so you should not complain about the nature of the answers. You have been here long enough to know that they will be overwhelmingly negative.

But I digress. What is your opinion?

I and others have given theirs.

Personally, I am more neutral on the subject than most: if customers would just put in the same amount of research on martial art schools as they do when making a toaster purchase, McDojos would either not exist or have a different overall tone. So to an extent, people get out what they put in. If they put in no research before making a purchase then they are rolling the dice. Sometimes you get craps. Or Crappling. Or craptacular or whatever. Sometimes not.

Needless to say, you will not find me picketing.

But how about you? Do you feel that the trend is problematic or do you feel that it is beneficial? Seeing as how you have bemoaned the negative opinions of others, please state your own.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think you and still_learning (only person ever to grace my ignore list) are the same guy. Same nonsense, same failure at building coherent sentences. Take your McBS and go away.

Him signing it 'aloha' is kind of an indicator too.

Daniel

 

[Cirdan]

Personally, I am more neutral on the subject than most: if customers would just put in the same amount of research on martial art schools as they do when making a toaster purchase, McDojos would either not exist or have a different overall tone. So to an extent, people get out what they put in. If they put in no research before making a purchase then they are rolling the dice. Sometimes you get craps. Or Crappling. Or craptacular or whatever. Sometimes not.

Gotta agree with you there. Anyone who does not catch on within a few months of joining a worst case McDojo pretty much deserve what they get. Kinda like ordering a double jumbo burger with extra fat and a cola light, thinking it is health foor and expecting to loose weight.

 

[fangjian]

Hahaha. He said 'Mr neighborhood watch'


It's like anything else. A friend of mine graduated from Yale last year with a degree in Chinese Language and Literature. Soon, I will eventually finish my 4 year degree at a state school and likely have a degree in General Studies. My friend and I can both be considered graduates, but c'mon, we all know 'the deal'. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard for it or that I shouldn't be proud. I also don't need some Yalies or Harvard graduates mocking me either. Unless, of course if I deserve it by claiming that they're the same.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Gotta agree with you there. Anyone who does not catch on within a few months of joining a worst case McDojo pretty much deserve what they get. Kinda like ordering a double jumbo burger with extra fat and a cola light, thinking it is health foor and expecting to loose weight.

Agreed. The catch is that if you catch on after a few months, then it is too late; you have signed the contract by then. People should go watch the class for a month before joining, and watch classes at other schools. Not to mention going on the web and reading customer reviews. A lot of the little web directories have them.

Not just if the reviews are negative either. Positive reviews can be very telling too. If all of the reviews revolve around the quality of the daycare and the rah-rah-attaboy stuff, and nothing about how effective the teaching is, that is telling.

Also, googling to find all of the schools in the area is a must. When I do that, I find that there are almost four times as many schools in a ten mile radius as I had thought, and I have lived here since 1970.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Hahaha. He said 'Mr neighborhood watch'


It's like anything else. A friend of mine graduated from Yale last year with a degree in Chinese Language and Literature. Soon, I will eventually finish my 4 year degree at a state school and likely have a degree in General Studies. My friend and I can both be considered graduates, but c'mon, we all know 'the deal'. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard for it or that I shouldn't be proud. I also don't need some Yalies or Harvard graduates mocking me either. Unless, of course if I deserve it by claiming that they're the same.

Good points! University or Community College...both provide legit instruction, both will give you a degree, upon completion of courses, unless you fail. Either way, its a degree from a legit Univ or College.

Sure at the mcdojo, the inst. will tell you that you're doing well, but in reality, he doesn't really care if you do well or not. He's getting what he wants, and thats money.

Nice to see you on the forum man! We should get together and workout sometime.

 

[fangjian]

Good points! University or Community College...both provide legit instruction, both will give you a degree, upon completion of courses, unless you fail. Either way, its a degree from a legit Univ or College.

True. There are some so called 'universities' that hand out fake degrees and stuff. They are like McDojos. lol

Sure at the mcdojo, the inst. will tell you that you're doing well, but in reality, he doesn't really care if you do well or not. He's getting what he wants, and thats money.

Yeah, you're right. I just hate when people throw around the term 'Mcdojo' and 'bullshido' etc. when it's not deserved. My shifu probably doesn't know how to do a locoplata from the rubberguard, but don't think he won't f you up, you know?

Nice to see you on the forum man! We should get together and workout sometime.

Sounds good. I'll contact you next week.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Good points! University or Community College...both provide legit instruction, both will give you a degree, upon completion of courses, unless you fail. Either way, its a degree from a legit Univ or College.

Absolutely agree.

Sure at the mcdojo, the inst. will tell you that you're doing well, but in reality, he doesn't really care if you do well or not. He's getting what he wants, and thats money.

This is where I diverge. McDojo is a business format. I do not believe that each and every school that adopts this format is concerned only with money or lies to their students about progress. I think that there are schools that are technically McDojos with a staff that teaches well and is genuinely concerned about the students' progress and welfare.

A school that insists that the students are doing good, whether or not they are, and that has lousy or substandard teaching is simply a lousy school, regardless of how it is packaged.

Now, I will concede that the McDojo format is the most appealing for a greedy owner who runs a lousy school.

The problem is that from a business standpoint, it is a very good format. There are owners who are not particularly good practitioners of whatever art they teach, and not particularly good instructors, but who are sharp as tacks with business. Thus they can succeed financially with an inferior product.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

This is where I diverge. McDojo is a business format. I do not believe that each and every school that adopts this format is concerned only with money or lies to their students about progress. I think that there are schools that are technically McDojos with a staff that teaches well and is genuinely concerned about the students' progress and welfare.

A school that insists that the students are doing good, whether or not they are, and that has lousy or substandard teaching is simply a lousy school, regardless of how it is packaged.

Now, I will concede that the McDojo format is the most appealing for a greedy owner who runs a lousy school.

The problem is that from a business standpoint, it is a very good format. There are owners who are not particularly good practitioners of whatever art they teach, and not particularly good instructors, but who are sharp as tacks with business. Thus they can succeed financially with an inferior product.

Daniel

Hey Dan,

Let me clarify for one moment. I dont want to give the impression that anyone that charges for lessons, any commercial school, is a mcdojo. IMO, the main difference is the quality vs quantity. IMO, a mcdojo is concerned with the quantity of students that they have, they want to get as many black belts, both kids and adults, running around, so it gives the impression to anyone that walks in the door, that they too, with ease, can get a BB. Instead, I think that the schools should be more concerned with the quality of their students. Who cares how many BB's they have in the school. What should matter, is the BBs that they do have, look sharp, can perform the material, can explain it, teach it, make it work, etc.

 

[suicide]

i never said that i thought mcdojos were ok ? and i also never said that they werent - i dont care about mcdojos the world is to awsome & buetiful to be concerned with mcdojos if your so threatend by mcdojos go to one and give a seminar open some of those students minds up ...

just cause ur an admin. dont mean you could be power tripping and its ok ! whats wrong with you show some class and stop snitching and stop lying thats lame ! green dots in the real world mean nothing my boy.


yeah i started this thread just to see what the big deal is with mcdojos and why people waste there time complaining about them and not doing nothing about it DONT TALK ABOUT IT BE ABOUT IT MY BOY !