What are edged weapon systems that aren't based in dueling and have principles that translate over to real world altercations?

[GreenieMeanie]

I am not confused by that. Do you understand what I said?

"The problem with the old Asian arts in their traditional form, is that you have to spend years with the decorum and original contexts of those systems, until you find what translates over well to now. It's very difficult to find JJ that isn't based in competition and that goes back to its medieval roots, assuming armor and blades. It's also difficult to find FMA that hasn't tossed the dance element, and drops the assumption that you're a farmer wielding field knives, short swords or machetes....at least that has been my experience."

 

[Flying Crane]

"The problem with the old Asian arts in their traditional form, is that you have to spend years with the decorum and original contexts of those systems, until you find what translates over well to now. It's very difficult to find JJ that isn't based in competition and that goes back to its medieval roots, assuming armor and blades. It's also difficult to find FMA that hasn't tossed the dance element, and drops the assumption that you're a farmer wielding field knives, short swords or machetes....at least that has been my experience."

That hasn’t been my experience.

 

[elder999]

Military and LEO.

American military and............LEO?

 

[GreenieMeanie]

American military and............LEO?

Not specifically American.

 

[frank raud]

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison: Pentecost, Don: 9781626545045: Amazon.com: Books

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison [Pentecost, Don] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison

www.amazon.com

 

[elder999]

Y

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison: Pentecost, Don: 9781626545045: Amazon.com: Books

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison [Pentecost, Don] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison

www.amazon.com

I was getting there, Frank...

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison: Pentecost, Don: 9781626545045: Amazon.com: Books

Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison [Pentecost, Don] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Put ‘Em Down. Take ‘Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison

www.amazon.com

Is that actually any good or based in reality? I brought it a while back but never really read it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Is that actually any good or based in reality? I brought it a while back but never really read it.

I think it'd be right up your alley.

 

[frank raud]

Is that actually any good or based in reality? I brought it a while back but never really read it.

If you own it, why don't you try reading it? Or would that be too close to actually training for you?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

If you own it, why don't you try reading it? Or would that be too close to actually training for you?

Im askign to see if its worth fishing it out or not, its only a tiny book. Plus thats not really answering the question.

 

[frank raud]

Im askign to see if its worth fishing it out or not, its only a tiny book. Plus thats not really answering the question.

Why did you buy it, if not to read it?

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Is that actually any good or based in reality? I brought it a while back but never really read it.

It's based in reality, but it's more of a primer. It's like "here's some info on how criminals use knives to ambush and kill each other." Based on the responses I'm getting to this, it would seem you guys don't know much more than I do...which isn't bad. The fact that none of you seem to have heard of Piper or Libre is a little surprising to me.

 

[Blindside]

It's based in reality, but it's more of a primer. It's like "here's some info on how criminals use knives to ambush and kill each other." Based on the responses I'm getting to this, it would seem you guys don't know much more than I do...which isn't bad. The fact that none of you seem to have heard of Piper or Libre is a little surprising to me.

You mentioned it your opening post, so I didn't mention them. I have a couple, actually more than a couple of friends in my extended network who train them and they all have good things to say about them.

 

[Holmejr]

-Applicable in real-world altercations (aren't based in dueling)

-Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting

-Have methods applicable with improvised pointy objects or poor quality blades

All I've been able to come across so far is Piper and Libre.

I believe the method I currently study falls into this category. It’s a modified version of escrima. We call it Eskrido de Alcuizar. GM Alcuizar set out to create a straight forward, modern self defense method. Not dueling based, no weapon chasing, but direct attract based. We practice in Orange County, CA under Ron Manrique.

 

[Holmejr]

Knife attacks are fearful things, and someone can drop dead, right on the spot. I guess everyone knows that by using common sense.

That is something that any knife fighter needs to answer, which is, what will I do to save myself?

I mentioned in another post, that killing is easy; but the fighter needs to know that for himself. In a real fight somebody might die, either you or the other guy. The deadly aspects of it, are as serious as gun fighting, just closer in.

That conundrum is up to the fighter to solve. Because if you underestimate your opponent, he may kill you. So pick the system that teaches defense more than offense, IMHO. Escape and evade.

Nicely worded. We stay away from dueling. When we do goof around with dueling, everybody ends up with potential life threatening hits. We stay with 3/4 second aggressive defense/destruction/get out scenarios.

Eskrido de Alcuizar
Buena Park, CA

 

[BigMotor]

Nicely worded. We stay away from dueling. When we do goof around with dueling, everybody ends up with potential life threatening hits. We stay with 3/4 second aggressive defense/destruction/get out scenarios.

Eskrido de Alcuizar
Buena Park, CA

There is a place for real force, but that is a small area of life, most martial arts are defensive and avoid killing and maiming. Dueling has no place in civilized areas, but being able to put down an attacker, that does have a place.

That place where force is needed is up to the man involved, and he needs to be level headed and hard to shake. Because you never know when it will become a life and death fight.

Most people think that it will never happen to them; but it is happening.
So, it is better to know how to take down a killer, than to remain oblivious.

Big Motor.

 

[Saheim]

Sure, if you are in a duel, I want to disable your limbs from hitting me because they might be carrying a weapon. If you aren't "knife fighting" and most real world engagements aren't, then you don't need to do that and you use the knife on more important targets. And quite frankly most systems aren't showing it publicly because it looks band and also it isn't complicated, it takes no training whatsoever to kill someone with a knife. I never really understood the appeal of training for killing unarmed people, it is like training to club baby seals.

Yea, I never understood the whole learning how to take out unarmed folks, with a blade, either....... until I considered the fact there might be 3 of them with the intention of stomping me into a coma so they can keep my wife and daughter. Then suddenly the idea of stabbing unarmed people made a lot of sense.

As far as the bio mechanical cutting vs vital targets - my trainer teaches doing BOTH. Obviously, stopping the atta k is the objective and mass blood loss helps achieve that. So YES carotid artery, subclavian artery, femoral, etc are "bullseyes" however, if an arm is coming my way, I'd like to make sure it is damaged before it goes back. I look at biomechanical cutting as the side dish.