What are edged weapon systems that aren't based in dueling and have principles that translate over to real world altercations?

[GreenieMeanie]

-Applicable in real-world altercations (aren't based in dueling)

-Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting

-Have methods applicable with improvised pointy objects or poor quality blades

All I've been able to come across so far is Piper and Libre.

 

[elder999]

Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting?
Explain

-Applicable in real-world altercations (aren't based in dueling)

-Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting

-Have methods applicable with improvised pointy objects or poor quality blades

All I've been able to come across so far is Piper and Lib

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting?
Explain

Don't look to cutting connective tissue or muscle for non-lethal tactics.

 

[elder999]

O

Don't look to cutting connective tissue or muscle for non-lethal tactics.

Oh, I know what bio mechanical cutting is.......I just don't understand looking for a lack of emphasis on it.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

O

Oh, I know what bio mechanical cutting is.......I just don't understand looking for a lack of emphasis on it.

Doesn't teach it as a go-to

 

[elder999]

Doesn't teach it as a go-to

Again, one has to question, why?

 

[Buka]

I train AMOK knife. I like it.

 

[jks9199]

-Applicable in real-world altercations (aren't based in dueling)

-Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting

-Have methods applicable with improvised pointy objects or poor quality blades

All I've been able to come across so far is Piper and Libre.

You ask as if you have an answer in mind...

Real knife attacks are direct, simple, and straight forward. Most of the time, the first clue that there's a knife in the game is the bleeding.

If you start out facing each other with a knife, it's a form of dueling.

 

[frank raud]

-Applicable in real-world altercations (aren't based in dueling)

-Don't emphasize bio mechanical cutting

-Have methods applicable with improvised pointy objects or poor quality blades

All I've been able to come across so far is Piper and Libre.

With so many knife systems coming out of countries like the Philippines, Indonesia or South Africa, is there any system that requires a high quality blade?

 

[Blindside]

When you say "biomechanical cutting" are you talking about the tendency in Filipino martial arts to"defang the snake" and similar? Because if we aren't dueling and I have a knife and you don't, pretty much all that goes out the window, if my goal is to kill you then my goal is to get close, probably trap, control a limb and stab and cut the crap out of you. Maybe I misunderstand the question.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Again, one has to question, why?

The specialists I've spent time with tell me that face attacks are more reliable, and translate across edged weapons of varying quality and make.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

You ask as if you have an answer in mind...

Real knife attacks are direct, simple, and straight forward. Most of the time, the first clue that there's a knife in the game is the bleeding.

If you start out facing each other with a knife, it's a form of dueling.

I'm well aware of the reality of knife attacks. I'm just looking for systems that have already extracted what's pragmatic from traditional systems such as FMA or Silat.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

With so many knife systems coming out of countries like the Philippines, Indonesia or South Africa, is there any system that requires a high quality blade?

I really don't know much about all the specific systems. I've seen a little bit of silat, FMA, Piper, MBC, and Libre.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

When you say "biomechanical cutting" are you talking about the tendency in Filipino martial arts to"defang the snake" and similar? Because if we aren't dueling and I have a knife and you don't, pretty much all that goes out the window, if my goal is to kill you then my goal is to get close, probably trap, control a limb and stab and cut the crap out of you. Maybe I misunderstand the question.

I'm just trying to sort the systems available for study, preferable something that's been modified based on modern fighting experiences.

 

[frank raud]

I really don't know much about all the specific systems. I've seen a little bit of silat, FMA, Piper, MBC, and Libre.

So, again, do any of those systems require a high quality blade?

 

[GreenieMeanie]

So, again, do any of those systems require a high quality blade?

FMA and MBC seem to place heavy emphasis on directing limbs into a blade to disable them. It would be harder to do with smaller and less sharp edged weapons.

 

[Blindside]

FMA and MBC seem to place heavy emphasis on directing limbs into a blade to disable them. It would be harder to do with smaller and less sharp edged weapons.

Sure, if you are in a duel, I want to disable your limbs from hitting me because they might be carrying a weapon. If you aren't "knife fighting" and most real world engagements aren't, then you don't need to do that and you use the knife on more important targets. And quite frankly most systems aren't showing it publicly because it looks band and also it isn't complicated, it takes no training whatsoever to kill someone with a knife. I never really understood the appeal of training for killing unarmed people, it is like training to club baby seals.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

Sure, if you are in a duel, I want to disable your limbs from hitting me because they might be carrying a weapon. If you aren't "knife fighting" and most real world engagements aren't, then you don't need to do that and you use the knife on more important targets. And quite frankly most systems aren't showing it publicly because it looks band and also it isn't complicated, it takes no training whatsoever to kill someone with a knife. I never really understood the appeal of training for killing unarmed people, it is like training to club baby seals.

I'm referring to situations where you see the attack coming and have your weapon ready to draw, or already drawn.

 

[Blindside]

I'm referring to situations where you see the attack coming and have your weapon ready to draw, or already drawn.

How is that not "dueling?" Does the other guy know that you have a weapon? If he doesn't and he treats you as being unarmed there (and he has a clue about using a knife) there is a really good chance of mutual death.

 

[GreenieMeanie]

How is that not "dueling?" Does the other guy know that you have a weapon? If he doesn't and he treats you as being unarmed there (and he has a clue about using a knife) there is a really good chance of mutual death.

I'm well aware of that. I'm just diversifying to improve my training and understanding of the threat. Again--I'm looking specifically for systems that are aggressive, don't have tradition to extrapolate from, and whose principles are applicable to pointy objects with or without a proper blade.