Very few female 2nd Dans (almost none) at my TKD school

[Headhunter]

Martial arts in general leans more male, but I've actually noticed, in my experience, that girls/women who do sign up seem to be somewhat more likely to stick with it, so our classes tend to get more even in terms of gender as they get more advanced. For what it's worth, for another small sample, I'm currently doing some office work during one of our black belt TKD classes. There are 6 kids (ages 10-15) in class today. 3 are girls, 3 are boys. 2 boys and 2 girls are 1st pooms, and 1 girl and 1 boy are 2nd pooms.

Completely disagree that women or girls stick at it more. It completely depends on the person, gender doesn't come into it at all.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not always. Most schools ive been to, unless the gap there is 3-4 years, ive seen people who just got there 1st dan better than people who just got their 2nd dan. People stay at a rank for weird reasons sometimes, and if its time in rank as a limiting factor for advancement, a lot of people cross train and improve more, or train 4-5 days a week in that two year period, others show up once or twice a week, but still spent the same "time"

This is true. While on the whole, as @skribs says, it's easier to recognize the difference between ranks at the start of each rank, there are also people who simply don't rank up. I hung out at ranks a long time, so was often more developed in some ways than the folks in the rank above me. One of my training partners never went for BB because he didn't care to teach (required for BB), and he was probably more skilled than any of our BB in most ways - certainly better at the base principles than I was.

 

[skribs]

That might be a result of school size. The largest school I've been to had probably a max of 10 people at black belt/above, at it's most. Outside of that, one school that I trained in had about 5 black belt + total, which made up half the regular (adult) students, which was the second most. They're all pretty small schools (one had about 5 people total, at it's max. A lot of people would make the 1.5 hour trip to it from NYC though, so class was always interesting). IIRC, your school has something like 200 students total right? How many are at a black belt+ level?

It's hard to pin down how many students we have, because some "active" students are there only every so often. I'd say we have between 150-250, 200 is a solid guess.

At the moment, I think we have something in the realm of 36 active black belts (not including the Master and the main instructor).

• 20x 1st degree (4 girls)
• 13x 2nd degree (5 girls)
• 3x 3rd degree (1 girl)

However, we're about to have a lot less girls in 2nd degree, as I believe all 5 are testing out soon, and only 1 is testing in.

 

[skribs]

This is true. While on the whole, as @skribs says, it's easier to recognize the difference between ranks at the start of each rank, there are also people who simply don't rank up. I hung out at ranks a long time, so was often more developed in some ways than the folks in the rank above me. One of my training partners never went for BB because he didn't care to teach (required for BB), and he was probably more skilled than any of our BB in most ways - certainly better at the base principles than I was.

I think it's more true in forms than sparring. You can teach concepts and technique, but you can't teach talent. Forms are a more sterile environment, and regardless of what your level of talent is, as you get more and more muscle memory your forms will look sharper and clearer. This is where I really notice the difference.

 

[WaterGal]

nm figured it out lol

 

[WaterGal]

Completely disagree that women or girls stick at it more. It completely depends on the person, gender doesn't come into it at all.

I'm speaking from my experience in 6 years of managing and co-owning a martial arts school. Obviously I can't speak to what happens at every school everywhere, and obviously every person is their own special snowflake. But my experience, at my school, has been what I described - that fewer girls sign up, but on average they're more committed and stick around for longer.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm speaking from my experience in 6 years of managing and co-owning a martial arts school. Obviously I can't speak to what happens at every school everywhere, and obviously every person is their own special snowflake. But my experience, at my school, has been what I described - that fewer girls sign up, but on average they're more committed and stick around for longer.

I wonder if the dynamic is different where there's a woman in a leadership position.

 

[skribs]

I wonder if the dynamic is different where there's a woman in a leadership position.

It might depend on the art a bit, too. I think it wouldn't matter as much in a striking art as a grappling art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It might depend on the art a bit, too. I think it wouldn't matter as much in a striking art as a grappling art.

I think some women just prefer to be in an environment where they see at least one woman in a leadership position. I'm going off some spotty evidence, but when I visit my old school, there are nearly no women there now. There used to be a larger contingent, when the CI's wife was active (they've since divorced) and there was a female BB (my ex) who was more or less an administrator, and was around and obvious for more than half the classes. Now that both of them are gone, all the leadership is male, and women don't seem to sign up as often nor stay as long.

 

[skribs]

I think some women just prefer to be in an environment where they see at least one woman in a leadership position. I'm going off some spotty evidence, but when I visit my old school, there are nearly no women there now. There used to be a larger contingent, when the CI's wife was active (they've since divorced) and there was a female BB (my ex) who was more or less an administrator, and was around and obvious for more than half the classes. Now that both of them are gone, all the leadership is male, and women don't seem to sign up as often nor stay as long.

Was this an NGA school?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Was this an NGA school?

Yes. But note that neither of the women did a lot of the teaching. It seemed to help that there was a visible woman around most of the time in an obvious leadership position.

 

[dvcochran]

I think some women just prefer to be in an environment where they see at least one woman in a leadership position. I'm going off some spotty evidence, but when I visit my old school, there are nearly no women there now. There used to be a larger contingent, when the CI's wife was active (they've since divorced) and there was a female BB (my ex) who was more or less an administrator, and was around and obvious for more than half the classes. Now that both of them are gone, all the leadership is male, and women don't seem to sign up as often nor stay as long.

I'm curious about the timeframe when the women were there, as in the decade. How much of the female absence can be attributed to the overall reduction in MA participation?
We ebb and flow with being heavy male or female. I do agree it is common the see a collective of like minded people (friends, relatives) that will merge and make a class or school biased one way or the other.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm curious about the timeframe when the women were there, as in the decade. How much of the female absence can be attributed to the overall reduction in MA participation?
We ebb and flow with being heavy male or female. I do agree it is common the see a collective of like minded people (friends, relatives) that will merge and make a class or school biased one way or the other.

It's a proportion thing. Back then, women were up to 25% of the school. Now, I can't remember seeing one in the last few visits.