Quote by zDom to Odin: "Surely you aren't going to claim that MMA fighters have focused punching? Most of them, even at the top levels, regularly throw
wild punches that don't even connect with a target, much less hit a specific target."
[my emphasis added]
I see top level boxers do the same?infact all fighters do the same.
Odin, this portion of your quote which I underlined, would be incorrect. In Taekwondo, for instance, I have learned (and teach my students) that techniques should be accurately directed to a specific target. Throwing wild, unfocused or uncontrolled punches or kicks is the sign of an unskilled fighter (according to our philosophy). Not all techniques will land on their intended target, however, not
ALL fighters swing wildly.
The point of breaking is: total destruction of a human bone requires specific force depending on the size and location of the bone. Boards of varying numbers require a specific force to break them.
Exceed the amount of force by breaking more boards than necessary to seriously damage a human being, and you know for sure that your power is sufficient.
I disagree with that, the time and focus a lot of people take before breaking the board leads me to think it would not translate well when they need to ''break'' a human...
Apparently, zDom is correct.
You are either not reading other posts completely, or you are not understanding what is being written! I
already answered your above comment in my previous post:
many breaks have become easy for advanced practitioners to perform due to years of practice.
However, if they just walked out and smashed through it like a baseball bat through a glass window, the audience would not realize the true power, and years of training it took to master that. Thus, much of the preparation on easier breaks is to build it up so the audience does not believe it is so easy to do, or that the materials are "fixed" to break easy.
Finally, you might be surprised to know that the person who takes so long to prepare a break in demo could actually do the same thing in split second timing if they chose.
Then, you stated this:
i for one would not stand allow someone to.
This too was already addressed. Did you not read it???
Also, some people are under the misconception that a real, live person won't hold still for you to take time to focus on a target like we do when we break. Other than the fact that we can hit with power fast if we choose, it is not practical to initiate attacks of high power while an opponent is alert, and able to move about. The idea is that you perform a quick strike to a knee, groin, rib, kidney, neck, throat, eyes, or some other vital spot to temporarily stun, and immobilize your attacker for just about 1 to 2 seconds, which is plenty of time to generate that focused power of a breaking technique to whatever target you choose.
A square wooden board has not the same dimensions as a human bone wrapped in muscle and also the way in which a board is broken is due to the way in which it is held and where it is struck, the human body on the other hand is not supported in such a way nor has a permanant breaking point since it is more mobile and absorbs impact better then a piece of wood..and as such i find it difficult to to compare bones which boards...especially in a fight situation.
Yes,
YOU might find it difficult to compare. I would not expect someone who lacks advanced training in this skill to understand how it compares. However, here it is in a nutshell. Rather than trying to think
"bones are difficult to break, thus I don't see how breaking boards could help," try to understand some basic facts:
1. Bones can and
do break.
2. Many times, bones are broken by accident under very basic circumstances in sports and other physical activities.
3. It really does
not take as much force to break these long round anatomical structures, padded by muscle, fat, tendons, ligaments, and skin as many people think (if you have had experience with breaking other people's bones, or your own bones as I have, you might realize this -
they are not that difficult to break).
4. The amount of FORCE required to break a square, flat board, held firmly in people's hands, or in a sturdy board holder, is still measurable as to the amount of force the student is capable of delivering - regardless of the target.
- - Fact: A student who can
NOT break one board has not developed their technique properly, thus is
not yet capable of delivering the force necessary to break any major bones.
- - Fact: A student who
CAN break 3 boards, has improved their ability to deliver the force necessary to break some bones. Translating that ability to practical application is another part of training, but it is a necessary ability, whether you gain that ability by breaking boards or through some other method.
- - Fact: A student who can demonstrate breaking 6 boards with some concentration and focus, will be better able to whip quickly through 3 or 4 boards
without having to think about it, or take time to focus. Thus, that student will break a person's bone without hesitation, or stopping to focus on the person's body. It will become a quick, natural reflexive action.
As for penatration (lol) the bag is one of the first tools used to learn the correct distance of a punch/kick and in that distance you learn how to make your strikes penatrate effectively ( mainly by watching how far the bag moves )
Here is a major misunderstanding about distance, penetration, momentum, acceleration, and
muscle memory. While I'm not going to go into an in-depth lesson on how to break boards properly, I will attempt to correct some errors in thinking about the bag vs. breaking. The bag is not bad, it just serves a different part of training. Techniques that strike a bag resembles what happens when you hit a person's body (good training - for certain purposes).
Conversely, the technique that strikes nothing but air, completes the full use of muscles without interruption. This creates a muscle memory that is valuable when improving striking power, and the penetration of a target. This is one reason why most fighters (including boxers) will "shadow box." There are benefits to teaching your brain to "think" the technique will be completed. This is why a golfer completes the follow through on his swing, even though the ball has already left the club. If the golfer plans to stop a few inches after the ball has departed, his brain is already sending signals to the muscles to stop before he has hit the ball, thus affecting the power of the swing.
Breaking boards accomplishes two very important muscle memory skills. It teaches the brain how to prepare for an impact (as opposed to just shadow boxing), yet forces the brain to accelerate and continue to drive the technique through and beyond the target, allowing the muscles to go ahead and complete the technique to the end (as opposed to punching a bag). It might be difficult for a "non-breaker" to understand the full benefit of this training, but it is a fact that it is an invaluable skill achieved only through breaking.
Now, understand this - - there are a few schools of thought on this.
A. Breaking has no value, can not improve power, and does not translate to real life combat or self defense.
B. Breaking can improve power, but the same power can be attained without practicing breaking.
C. Breaking is a necessary part of developing power, therefore maximum striking power can not be achieved without breaking practice.
I would not go so far as to support theory "C," but I do believe, from my many years of experience as a breaker, that theory "A" is absolutely wrong, without foundation, and usually comes from a lack of experience on the subject (an "outsiders" point of view from the viewpoint of breakers). Breaking does provide a level of training that does not exist anywhere else, but this does not mean that you can not develop power without it.
quotes by Odin:
"I think breaking boards and bricks has nothing to do with teaching anything i think its more of a visual thing."
"again though how would breaking a sationary piece of wood relate to throwing a punch at a moving target?"
"Again a piece of wood is either held infront of you or is placed between to objects??? how does this tranlate to hitting specific points????"
It seems clear to me that you have more questions than answers, which shows that you are not experienced on this subject. It translates (in my opinion) as, "I don't know how to do it, thus I don't see how it could possibly work or be used in a real fight."
You think breaking boards does not teach anything. Consider the game of golf. Hit the long drive from the tee or the fairway, chip onto the green, and putt the ball into the hole. Rather than just always playing an 18 hole game, most golfers will spend time on a Driving Range. Then they will practice chipping shots onto a green, over and over. Finally, they will practice their putting game (a lot of time on this). All of the individual skills are put together for a good game.
Striking a target first involves learning the proper technique. Then, you must learn how to hit a target without missing. This begins with stationary accuracy (focus mitts, kicking target drills, bag work, single board breaking, etc.), then moves into accurately tracking targets and striking a moving target. Next, the student must increase the power of their strike (multiple board breaking is an invaluable tool here), and then combine power with accuracy by learning to strike a moving target without sacrificing too much power. Finally, the fighter is going to learn proper distancing, timing, deception and delivery of the technique so they can get it in past the opponent's defenses - - or, as I said before, knock them senseless with a quick technique, then take all the time needed for the power strike.
Board breaking helps to improve power, verifies there is power (even if it was developed without breaking), teaches pin-point accuracy, and muscle memory for full extension. The transition of those important skills to hitting a moving target is a secondary, albeit important, part of training. Learning to Break Boards is not inhibiting to one's ability to strike a live, moving target, it is a base skill which is then translated to combat phase by practicing hitting moving targets.
It is like learning to shoot a stationary target accurately with a BB-gun, then a .22, then a rifle, then an M-60 machine gun, then an armor piercing rocket launcher. After you get accurate on a stationary target with the more powerful weapon, you start learning to hit a moving target with the same power.
In conclusion, I will say that anyone who believes that Breaking Boards does not equate to breaking bones in the human body has simply not developed the skill of breaking or they would understand the comparison of power. Perhaps that person is lacking in experience in both breaking, and the knowledge of feeling bones break (their own, or someone else's). To a person who knows this feeling, there is no question or doubt about it.
If you don't think a breaker can translate that power and focus to quickly strike a moving target with the same power, you've never really encountered a skilled breaker in action (in my opinion). :ultracool
CM D.J. Eisenhart