KENPOJOE said:
HI FOLKS
Dear John, [and no, it won't be one of "those" letters,LOL]
After reading your post, I felt I had to say something regarding it. You have admitted in the past that you have never studied Shaolin Kempo and were not familiar with it. As a Black Belt in several of the various Chuan fa/Kempo/Kenpo arts, I have seen numerous similarities and many times exact duplications of various Kajukenbo material. Having studied Karazenpo Goshinjutsu,Shaolin Kempo. Kenpo Karate [New England based], Ed Parker's American Kenpo, David German's T.A.I. Kenpo, as well as Bill Gregory's Kajukenpo-Pai Lum, I have always focused on searching out the similarities and differences between the various incarnations of the art.
I also studied Kajukenbo for a short time with the only Rhode Island certified Kajukenbo through the I.K.A as well as attended Kallaii Griffin's past Kajukenbo event [and plan on attending this years too!] I look forward to obtaining the new Kajukenbo series of DVDs to further research the similarities.
I will write a far more detailed post on this topic in the near future, however, I can catagorically state several points:
The lineage of the new england based kenpo that is based on karazenpo goshinjutsu uses the exact same salutation ["Right foot out on elbows"] as the Kajukenbo palama sets.
2. the kajukenbo opening [A left vertical outward blaock with a simultaneous right front 2 knuckle/horizontal thrust/seiken punch <sometimes with a right front snap kick in some kajukenbo lineages] is a frequently used technique in several of the shaolin kempo forms [2 kata,hansuki,5 pinan,etc...] This motion stems from the southern chinese kung fu styles.
3. As I was viewing the Gary Forbach kajukenbo self defense tapes [#2,punch counters,#3 club counters, and #4 Knife counters] I saw many similar techniques and exact techniques taught in our kenpo curriculums, everything from the classic "return to sender" use with both the club and knife.
4. when I learned the "monkey dances" of the Kajukenpo Goshinjutsu system as taught to me by Prof. Mike Rash and Sigung Brad Namahoe, It was obvious to me that these forms were almost EXACTLY IDENTICAL to the Kajukenbo "Palama Sets" that I had seen in my past Kajukenbo training in Rhode Island. When I trained in Kempo Jutsu under Prof. Feliciano "Kimo" Ferreira and learned his first form, Again, it was almost indential to the Kajukenbo kata [no surprise as his main instructor was Walter Godin].
I will be more than happy to write a far more detailed post regarding the similarities and identical actions,techniques,forms,etc... on another thread. But, i did feel that this particular post had to be addressed. In closing, I feel to say that the New England originated kenpo styles have no kajukenbo in them is inaccurate and although Mr. Bishop may have made that statement,He did not do so from an educated and diversified viewpoint. Therefore, he is incorrect in that statement.
Thank you for your time,
KENPOJOE
Actually, the Shaolin Kempo system is recorded on DVD's by Fred Villari and several others, so the cirriculum is out there for everyone to see, including myself. So please feel free to point out any of the SKK techniques that are identical to the "Original Method" of Kajukenbo (which was the only Kajukenbo Method during Sonny Gascon's Kajukenbo training).
The cirriculum of the "Original Method" of Kajukenbo is also recorded for historical accuracy in "Emperado's WKO" series.
You, being on the east coast should know that almost all the instructors of kajukenbo there have training backgrounds in kenpo systems several generations removed from Kajukenbo. You should also know that GM Kalaii Griffin came into the Kajukenbo organization from EPAK after SGM Parker passed away. Sijo Emperado told us at the time, that he "accepted him into the organization out of respect for Ed Parker". But GM Griffin teaches his own method of Kajukenbo which draws from his training in jujitsu, kenpo, kung fu, and other systems he studied.
So who taught you Kajukenbo in Rhode Island? Does his training come directly from Kajukenbo, or did it come thru the Pesare, Cerio, Villari lineage?
As to the salutation in the Palama Sets, there are actually 3 used by the differant Kajukenbo branches, and the X-block & horse stance used on Villari's DVD's is just half of the Kajukenbo salutations. Since Villari claims to be the founder of Shaolin Kempo Karate, I would assume he's the authority on the system.
So are you trying to say that Pesare's Kenpo, or Nick Cerios Kenpo, or Shaolin Kempo, or Kajukenpo Pai Lum are all the same or similar to Kajukenbo? That's a pretty far stretch. Sort of like saying Shotokan, Wado Ryu, Gosoku Ryu, and Kyokushin Kai are the same as Shorin Ryu, because they're only 3-5 generations removed from Shorin Ryu.
In Kajukenbo, we don't claim to be the same as Danzan Ryu jujitsu, even though 2 of our founders came from Danzan Ryu. We also don't claim to be the same as Kara-ho or kenpo jujitsu, because one of our founders came from that lineage.
The Shaolin Kempo people need to establish their own identity, instead of claiming to be from, or the same as Kajukenbo. I see people making claims on their websites that they are offshoots, sub-systems, or branches of Kajukenbo. There are only 3 authorized branches of the Original Kajukenbo system; Chuan fa, Tum Pai, and Wun Hop Kuen Do. And the 3 remaining founders are the only 10th degrees in all the Kajukenbo branches.
So again. I've got DVD's of the Shaolin Kempo Cirriculum from it's founder Fred Villari, and DVD's of the Kajukenbo cirriculum from our founder, Adriano Emperado. So please tell me where the identical technique combinations and katas are.
Anyway, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of the east coast kenpo variants. Just that they are not the same or similar to Kajukenbo.
