Ussd

There was fragments still playing hard, As I said, in terms of the bigger picture, commercialism was in full bloom. If you went with Masters (Mr. Bagley?) I can see the hard core way. He was always very serious. Funny thing about him, your instructors, at least for me, were always first name, even with each other. However, Master Bagley was always Master Bagley. This wasn';t because he demanded it, just because of his persona and energy he threw out.
 
Hand Sword said:
There was fragments still playing hard, As I said, in terms of the bigger picture, commercialism was in full bloom. If you went with Masters (Mr. Bagley?) I can see the hard core way. He was always very serious. Funny thing about him, your instructors, at least for me, were always first name, even with each other. However, Master Bagley was always Master Bagley. This wasn';t because he demanded it, just because of his persona and energy he threw out.
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How long did you train with master bagley?
Is he still practicing law ? Does he teach anymore?
 
During the very early 70's the USSD training included, very basic Judo, ground free fighting, (not gound grappeling), Kenpo Karate and very basic Jujitsu. These early classes stressed heavy basic's, then combinations, guns, club and knife techniques and forms. Heavy sparring was done at the end of every class,(not the tourny or sport type either).
 
LawDog said:
During the very early 70's the USSD training included, very basic Judo, ground free fighting, (not gound grappeling), Kenpo Karate and very basic Jujitsu. These early classes stressed heavy basic's, then combinations, guns, club and knife techniques and forms. Heavy sparring was done at the end of every class,(not the tourny or sport type either).
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Can you tell us more good stories about the old days?

I saw on ebay old villari tournament's videos for sale.
 
Hand Sword said:
When did you start learning? The watering down came ???? mid 80's, in total?? Then again, I came up in the FVSSD, back in the day.
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I started in 87, when the break up happened out in California. I was also 5 when I started...
 
MeatWad2,
Sparring back in the early 70's USSD is very different from today. There was very little saftey equipment around in those days. Sparring was allways controlled contact. What is meant by controlled contact is that you must, with speed and focus, be within the power curve of any strike/kick when you come into contact with your opponent but still maintain enough control of your move so that you could stop the impact before it could cause any damage to your class mate.
 
LawDog said:
MeatWad2,
Sparring back in the early 70's USSD is very different from today. There was very little saftey equipment around in those days. Sparring was allways controlled contact. What is meant by controlled contact is that you must, with speed and focus, be within the power curve of any strike/kick when you come into contact with your opponent but still maintain enough control of your move so that you could stop the impact before it could cause any damage to your class mate.
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It was the same in Shotokan in the late 70's. All we had were cups. Probably most karate classes had to do it that way.
 
MeatWad2 said:
Cool thanks sir.
More stories please?
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Sure. I think htat people tended to be more technically precise back then on agverage. The reason is that before the widespread use of equipment, ther was less banging away and more control of one's technique. Not only were you expected to focus the blow just short of the bodily target, but when you did make contact, you wanted it to be good. You couldn't just get by with slamming into someone with a side kick and repeatedly bash them in the headgear or torso etc. like you can now.People used to stalk each other more and not just rush in as much as they do now a days. Equipment has encouraged a more Kickboxing style of fighting. Styles tend to get muted and everyone starts looking the same after a while. A kickboxer can attain proficiency in as little as six months of training. To master a more technical and precise art that strikes at vital targets and makes use of technique rather than brute force takes much longer. Now, having said that, I do think that there is a usefulness to having equipment as well. Power and the ability to take a good punch or kick that is really being aimed at you is very good training. In the Kenpo, Kempo and related arts, there is a large amount of equipment-free training while practicing techniques such as tricks, counters combinations etc. as well as sparring with gear on. Anyways, this is just a long way of saying tht there were virtues as well as pitfalls to the pre-gear days of the martial arts.
 
well said danjo. You have to train with and without equipment. I always encourage male students to wear cups at all times though. Although I've had instructors that distain the use of cups because it toughens you up when you get kicked without one.
 
:rofl:

Don't you mean "soften them up". Then again, I can see your point--lol. Getting kicked there, hard, would tighten up the body so hard, causing our deep, masculine voices to become high tennar.
icon10.gif
 
Hand Sword said:
:rofl:

Don't you mean "soften them up". Then again, I can see your point--lol. Getting kicked there, hard, would tighten up the body so hard, causing our deep, masculine voices to become high tennar.
icon10.gif
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Ha ha, that was good.:rofl:
 
Danjo said:
Sure. I think htat people tended to be more technically precise back then on agverage. The reason is that before the widespread use of equipment, ther was less banging away and more control of one's technique. Not only were you expected to focus the blow just short of the bodily target, but when you did make contact, you wanted it to be good. You couldn't just get by with slamming into someone with a side kick and repeatedly bash them in the headgear or torso etc. like you can now.People used to stalk each other more and not just rush in as much as they do now a days. Equipment has encouraged a more Kickboxing style of fighting. Styles tend to get muted and everyone starts looking the same after a while. A kickboxer can attain proficiency in as little as six months of training. To master a more technical and precise art that strikes at vital targets and makes use of technique rather than brute force takes much longer. Now, having said that, I do think that there is a usefulness to having equipment as well. Power and the ability to take a good punch or kick that is really being aimed at you is very good training. In the Kenpo, Kempo and related arts, there is a large amount of equipment-free training while practicing techniques such as tricks, counters combinations etc. as well as sparring with gear on. Anyways, this is just a long way of saying tht there were virtues as well as pitfalls to the pre-gear days of the martial arts.
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I agree here, even just back in the 80s, training was different, more controlled. Don't get me wrong, there was actually more contact, but it was controlled contact. It seems that now there is very little contact whatsoever in some systems. I like the contact, afterall, we are training to fight. I've actually seen people who have been training for a fair amount of time that have not even hit a bag! What's up with that? IMHO, those people may go into shock even if they are the ones delivering the blow ... let's face it, even hitting someone can hurt and if you've never experienced that feeling, you may freak out. Wouldn't that be sad. So gear, I agree, positives and negatives, but it is out there, use it and at least experience some contact, or you may be in for a real surprise someday ... I like to say that I train so I won't have to fight, so let's hope that day never comes
 
14 Kempo said:
I agree here, even just back in the 80s, training was different, more controlled. Don't get me wrong, there was actually more contact, but it was controlled contact. It seems that now there is very little contact whatsoever in some systems. I like the contact, afterall, we are training to fight. I've actually seen people who have been training for a fair amount of time that have not even hit a bag! What's up with that? IMHO, those people may go into shock even if they are the ones delivering the blow ... let's face it, even hitting someone can hurt and if you've never experienced that feeling, you may freak out. Wouldn't that be sad. So gear, I agree, positives and negatives, but it is out there, use it and at least experience some contact, or you may be in for a real surprise someday ... I like to say that I train so I won't have to fight, so let's hope that day never comes
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Now, let me ask a question to all of you that read this thread. As a former CI, we were told at meetings that a good way to make some easy money for the week was to just pitch people on sparring gear packages, even if the person wasn't ready. What do you think that does to the student? Would you think it would emphasize getting better or do you think it might instill a bit of an ego in them?
 
14 Kempo said:
I have and I'll agree, it's eye opening. I am one that also notices body positioning. During seminars, even if the training is focussed on something else, watch the body positioning. It seems they are always in position without thought, it's natural. Proof to the hours upon hours of training. I was introduced to checking back in the FV days. It's not something that is readily taught thus far in my USSD training, but will be discussed if asked about in the proper arena. Problem seems to be that not all instructors have enough knowledge to even know about this themselves.
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Wait, what? checking's first taught at the Yellow Belt level as part of DM 3. I'm confused.
 
shaolin ninja 4 said:
Everyone should go train at another dojo before they say their art is the best.
If you dont know whats out there how do you know yours is the best?
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Plus, if they train at more than one dojo, they might get rid of the idea of a "best" art.
 
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