Ussd

[Danjo]

I was introduced to checking back in the FV days. It's not something that is readily taught thus far in my USSD training, but will be discussed if asked about in the proper arena. Problem seems to be that not all instructors have enough knowledge to even know about this themselves.

Why is this do you suppose? Why are the instructors not taught this stuff? Could be a couple of things IMO. One: It's not commercially viable to teach to that level and so the only ones that have that info and training are the old guard. Or Two: There is intentionally information held back so that the Masters look good when they demo on the students. that is, they teach the basic curriculum to the general public and keep other more effective training to themselves so that they can keep one up on those below them. this would include the instructors at the various studios, many of whom were not even trained in SKK before opening a school (Cynthia Rothrock for example).

 

[14 Kempo]

Why is this do you suppose? Why are the instructors not taught this stuff? Could be a couple of things IMO. One: It's not commercially viable to teach to that level and so the only ones that have that info and training are the old guard. Or Two: There is intentionally information held back so that the Masters look good when they demo on the students. that is, they teach the basic curriculum to the general public and keep other more effective training to themselves so that they can keep one up on those below them. this would include the instructors at the various studios, many of whom were not even trained in SKK before opening a school (Cynthia Rothrock for example).

I see it with the Masters, I see it with some of the instructors. Number one may be true, it is thought to be more advanced training. Checking knees and such can cause injury very easily. Lower ranks do not always have the control to practice such techniques. I don't agree with number two in its entirety, although I think holding back the information may be intentional, I don't think it is to make the masters look better. Most students, including some high ranks, in my studio, never noticed the positioning. I did, cause I look for that. Not only because of my prior training, but because I am all about what and how things work in a real environment. I do think part of it is the actual rank of some of the instructors (leave it at that, another discussion has already taken place about that).

Positional checking is used to keep opponents continually off balance and, as the term goes, in check. By positioning yourself properly, you reduce the chance of taking damage. Again, as stated in a previous post, I believe it is all important in training to work with someone of skill to try and counter anything you are trying to accomplish. Doing techniques against a non-reacting opponent, while in the beginning is probably a necessity, is not a way to perfect anything. As we all know, an opponent is not going to just stand still.

 

[MeatWad2]

Why is this do you suppose? Why are the instructors not taught this stuff? Could be a couple of things IMO. One: It's not commercially viable to teach to that level and so the only ones that have that info and training are the old guard. Or Two: There is intentionally information held back so that the Masters look good when they demo on the students. that is, they teach the basic curriculum to the general public and keep other more effective training to themselves so that they can keep one up on those below them. this would include the instructors at the various studios, many of whom were not even trained in SKK before opening a school (Cynthia Rothrock for example).

Most karate masters do that! They are selfish bastards.

 

[John Bishop]

If we can't keep the comments somewhat positive, let's at least try and contribute something useful to the discussion.

 

[Danjo]

deleted duplicate post

 

[Danjo]

Most karate masters do that!

Well that's actually been the opposite of my experience. When I look at high ranking martial artists (Shotokan, BJJ, Kajukenbo) performing their technique on me, they are definitely superior in their execution of it. However, they aren't using stuff that we haven't been taught (usually it's the same exact technique), they just do it better. More smoothly, powerfully and precisely and with less effort. I never get the feeling that "Hey, they're using body-checking that they haven't taught us." But rather, "Wow! So this is how this is supposed to look when it's done right!" They don't need to rely on gimmicks like holding back info to make themselves look good, nor have they stopped teaching effective stuff that they still employ for the sake of commercialism.

 

[Iron Leopard]

I agree with Danjo. The difference in masters insn't that they have different techniques...of course they will have some advanced techniques that I don't have.. I don't know everything. but..usually its the same stuff I have they just have better stances, postion, power, targeting, speed, etc! It just realy inspires me to practice the basic stuff I already have more!

 

[Hand Sword]

Well, remembering from the past, Villari's way was to introduce everyone to the martial arts. This meant simplifying the material, or, basically, spoonfeeding the students. They bring you along slowly, keeping it simple, and as you show competency, you get the advanced pieces added to the puzzle. Now, from a business stand point, it's solid ideology. Teachers in schools move along slowly, teaching in a frustrating manner to faster students, that get it. Or, think of it as being as fast as your weakest runner.

 

[shaolin ninja 4]

Everyone should go train at another dojo before they say their art is the best.
If you dont know whats out there how do you know yours is the best?

 

[14 Kempo]

Everyone should go train at another dojo before they say their art is the best.
If you dont know whats out there how do you know yours is the best?

Wasn't it the Gracies that said they had the end all style in MA with thier Jujitsu system. That was true years ago in the UFC, but not so today. IMO, no one art is the best in and of itself. Each art has its advantages and disadvantages. I believe one of the good things about the MMA becoming so popular is that it brought to the forefront the fact that people need knowledge in many, many fighting styles. And in that vein any one style is better than no style, whether that style be boxing, TKD, Kempo, wrestling, or any other art ... they all have thier positives and negatives; ever hear of yin and yang?

 

[Iron Leopard]

Well that's one reason I really like Kempo ..it does incorporate the ground fighting and some kung fu and karate and the flashy kicks of other arts if that's what you want and the womens self defense and.....it has everything! well alot of stuff anyway! lol

 

[Gufbal1982]

Well that's one reason I really like Kempo ..it does incorporate the ground fighting and some kung fu and karate and the flashy kicks of other arts if that's what you want and the womens self defense and.....it has everything! well alot of stuff anyway! lol

Which location teaches groundfighting? I know I was never taught groundfighting...

 

[Hand Sword]

Really? I remember it being taught back in the day, from my very beginning. Last I was in classes, years back, they would still cover it. Everyone seemed to have it too, up in the north east.

 

[Gufbal1982]

Really? I remember it being taught back in the day, from my very beginning. Last I was in classes, years back, they would still cover it. Everyone seemed to have it too, up in the north east.

I'm on the west...from what I remember, they banned it being taught in the dojo's because of injuries.

 

[Hand Sword]

When did you start learning? The watering down came ???? mid 80's, in total?? Then again, I came up in the FVSSD, back in the day.

 

[Matt]

When did you start learning? The watering down came ???? mid 80's, in total?? Then again, I came up in the FVSSD, back in the day.

In CT, they didn't touch on it too much. When I became involved in MSDC, they did more, especially Shihan Bryant who did some neiwaza drills at seminars. Things got really more 'ground' aware at my current school when 1.) one of our black belts went to Brazil to study with the Gracies, and 2.) Professor Ferreira exposed us to some Aiki-jutsu through his studies, and we spent a while on the ground (I think there are some pictures at http://www.dpkempo.com of RevIV enjoying the experience).

I still need to work on that range.

Matt

 

[Hand Sword]

This sounds like recent times. When did you start that with SKK?

 

[Matt]

This sounds like recent times. When did you start that with SKK?

I started under Scott Packard (in FVSSD) in 1990. His school was one of the ones that left in 1992 or 1993 with Steve Demasco when he left Villari's to join USSD as head of East Coast operations. While in college at UCONN, I also studied at the Willimantic FVSSD for private lessons, but somewhat sporadically. When I moved to Cape Cod, I joined a school that was with Masters Self Defense Centers, which was formed from schools that left Villari's in 1992 or so. In 2003, the school I am affiliated with went 'independent', and then joined the Kempo Jutsu Kai. Thankfully, I had been studying under Professor Ferreira of the Kempo Jutsu Kai since 2001.

But enough about me...

Matt

 

[Hand Sword]

That's why. You came on board after the watering down occurred, and everyone went "business" first, art second.

 

[Matt]

That's why. You came on board after the watering down occurred, and everyone went "business" first, art second.

Funny, I didn't think the watering down happened until a smidge later. I had my ribs broken during class - we played pretty hard - in Ct. When I came back for a visit (probably during '97 or '98) his blackbelts complained that I 'hit too hard' during sparring. That's when I felt 'a change'.

Matt