Train TMA but fight like kickboxer

[Kung Fu Wang]

It depends on how fine a definition of not a kickboxer and how loose a definition of kickboxer you want to go.

What's your definition of "not a kickboxer"? Does this match look like kickboxing to you?

 

[drop bear]

What's your definition of "not a kickboxer"? Does this match look like kickboxing to you?

Nope. Looks like garbage.

 

[Flying Crane]

What's your definition of "not a kickboxer"? Does this match look like kickboxing to you?

This match looks to me like an example of the kind of sparring that has minimal benefit to building skills. Very sloppy. I don’t recommend it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nope. Looks like garbage.

Lol I'll have to make sure not to ask you what my sparring looks like. Haha.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This match looks to me like an example of the kind of sparring that has minimal benefit to building skills. Very sloppy. I don’t recommend it.

He should be fine once he gets rid of that panic striking. The other guy wasn't that good either. But that's what learning is about. I like that both were committed to what they train. They must embrace the mistakes they make and learn from them

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This match looks to me like an example of the kind of sparring that has minimal benefit to building skills. Very sloppy. I don’t recommend it.

In the other clip, he executed his plan "groin kick, face punch" combo 5 times. 3 other times after his groin kick, the distance was too far for his face punch.

The footwork that he moves his back foot next to his leading foot and then kick out his leading foot is the skill that he tried to develop. It's very basic and nothing fancy.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Lol I'll have to make sure not to ask you what my sparring looks like. Haha.

Comparing professional to amateur sport combat is kind of a waste of time, like judging professional wrestling for technical quality.

 

[Oily Dragon]

This match looks to me like an example of the kind of sparring that has minimal benefit to building skills. Very sloppy. I don’t recommend it.

I agree.

They could also at least have chosen a nicer hotel, and gotten a couple sponsors to ad the place up. Low budget.

 

[drop bear]

Lol I'll have to make sure not to ask you what my sparring looks like. Haha.

 

[Anarax]

No. Because Steven Thompson.


The issue you mostly have is anyone who is any good, fights like a kickboxer. So to get trained by someone who has a vague clue what he is on about you nearly always need to turn to kickboxing.

Basically the pathways that lead to being good tend to bottle neck stylistically.

There are people who break this cycle. Steven Thompson for Karate. Moontosari for TKD. There are sanda guys and so on. But they are few and far between. And so harder to access.

So basically if someone wanted to be good. And he had the choice between say a fairly average kickboxer with 20 fights who will generally train guys for chump change. And then access to kickboxing competitions mabye held every weekend if he wants.

Or obscure style from a guy with no fights. And no vehicle to test or develop their ability. And probably for considerably more money.

It is a fairly easy choice.

Well said. One of the interesting things about Kickboxing is it's evolving and changing. It being a full contact sport practiced by professionals, you get to see it executed at the highest levels. Glory Kickboxing puts on phenomenal fights.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm amazed how many siblings have that same logic lol. I used to do that to my younger brother. I have no idea how my mother didn't kill us both lol. We also did the "Mom he's on my side" when we were in the car. You know those nature movies where the baby bird kills it's sibling, that was us. lol. But now everything is the opposite.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

He should be fine once he gets rid of that panic striking. The other guy wasn't that good either. But that's what learning is about. I like that both were committed to what they train. They must embrace the mistakes they make and learn from them

That video…ugh.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That video…ugh.

lol. was it that bad lol.

This is my go to for kung fu. This event happens every and it shows people using what they train. Some may say that it looks like kickboxing, but not to me. It doesn't even move like kickboxing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

lol. was it that bad lol.

If you just edit the best part of a fight, of course the fight can look good.

I'm more interested in a fighter who has a plan and follows it. My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin told me that he wrote his plan on his SC jacket. This way he could always referenced to his plan during the match.

In the following clip, he made his combo worked 3 times:

1. 0.00 - 0.03
2. 0.09 - 0.15
3. 1.08 - 1.13

He also tried at 0.51 and failed. It proofed that he had a plan and he followed it.

In real fight, you only have to make your combo work once.

This old man (my teacher's young brother) had a plan in wrestling that he followed through all his life. His plan was either used his left leg to bite on his opponent's leading leg, or pull his opponent into him. He taught me to stick to my plan and never change it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you just edit the best part of a fight, of course the fight can look good.

I'm more interested in a fighter who has a plan and follows it. My senior SC brother David C. K. Lin told me that he wrote his plan on his SC jacket. This way he could always referenced to his plan during the match.

In the following clip, he made his combo worked 3 times:

1. 0.00 - 0.03
2. 0.09 - 0.15
3. 1.08 - 1.13

He also tried at 0.51 and failed. It proofed that he had a plan and he followed it.

In real fight, you only have to make your combo work once.

This old man (my teacher's young brother) had a plan in wrestling that he followed through all his life. His plan was either used his left leg to bite on his opponent's leading leg, or pull his opponent into him. He taught me to stick to my plan and never change it.

I have more than one plan so I can apply the correct plan to the type of fighter that is in front of me. I couldn't imagine doing one type of plan unless no one could stop it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

lol. was it that bad lol.

This is my go to for kung fu. This event happens every and it shows people using what they train. Some may say that it looks like kickboxing, but not to me. It doesn't even move like kickboxing.

Much better.

 

[Steve]

lol. was it that bad lol.

This is my go to for kung fu. This event happens every and it shows people using what they train. Some may say that it looks like kickboxing, but not to me. It doesn't even move like kickboxing.

Looks a lot like Sanda or San Shou to me. I love it, as long as folks who don't compete and apply their skills understand that they probably can't do that, in the same way a person who does Tae Bo probably can't do what a kickboxer does.

Causes a lot of problems, though, when folks who train in styles that are too cool to apply their skills look at these dudes as some kind of validation of their technique and training model. The "that guy uses [insert my TMA style} in MMA (or some other competitive application), so the good news is that I can definitely fight"

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Looks a lot like Sanda or San Shou to me. I love it, as long as folks who don't compete and apply their skills understand that they probably can't do that, in the same way a person who does Tae Bo probably can't do what a kickboxer does.

Causes a lot of problems, though, when folks who train in styles that are too cool to apply their skills look at these dudes as some kind of validation of their technique and training model. The "that guy uses [insert my TMA style} in MMA (or some other competitive application), so the good news is that I can definitely fight"

Wait which ones are too cool? I hear this type of stuff a lot from you Steve. I’m never quite sure about where this comes from or what you mean exactly. Are you saying that I can’t do what these guys do because I don’t compete? I’m confused, straighten me out.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Looks a lot like Sanda or San Shou to me. I love it, as long as folks who don't compete and apply their skills understand that they probably can't do that, in the same way a person who does Tae Bo probably can't do what a kickboxer does.

Causes a lot of problems, though, when folks who train in styles that are too cool to apply their skills look at these dudes as some kind of validation of their technique and training model. The "that guy uses [insert my TMA style} in MMA (or some other competitive application), so the good news is that I can definitely fight"

I'm not sure I follow.... are you saying Sanda/sanshou is for show only? and not useful in a real fight? (I'm not upset, just wondering what you mean)

Sanda is Sanshuo and Cung Lei was a Sanda fighter and a rather good one. Also there are different versions of Sanda/Sanshou. Military/Police, Sport and there is another set occasionally referred to as civilian. I trained the Police version for a bit, and I can tell you, it is as serious as a heart attack in application. As my teacher said, Sanda is not the best martial art or the hardest or the most impressive, it is just a quick way to learn how to hurt someone very badly

 

[Steve]

Wait which ones are too cool? I hear this type of stuff a lot from you Steve. I’m never quite sure about where this comes from or what you mean exactly. Are you saying that I can’t do what these guys do because I don’t compete? I’m confused, straighten me out.

Good question. We have to be kind of careful. My intention isn't to be vague, but fraudbusting is frowned up. So, I end up sounding a little passive aggressive.

I'm talking about folks who say things like, "We don't train to fight. We train for self defense," who will also talk about how they never fight (and in some cases, have NEVER fought). These guys will also often describe their own training as being "effective" on the street, and will opine about what works and doesn't work in a "real fight."

To be clear, it's not style specific. It's training specific, though some styles definitely embrace a lack of application as a feature and not a bug. This is a great example of how, if you train for some application, your style can work great. But this is true in the converse, as well. It's the application that makes it work, not the style. So, if you train white crane, wing chun, ninjutsu, or aikido and apply the skills, the PEOPLE who train in those styles will learn to apply the skills. And the inverse, if you train in boxing, MMA, BJJ, wrestling, or kickboxing, and remove the application, it will pretty quickly devolve into something that barely resembles "effective".