Tradition vs. Reality!

[Flatlander]

No man, not you. I was referring to the gentleman who's come to educate the ignorant.

 

[Littledragon]

No man, not you. I was referring to the gentleman who's come to educate the ignorant.

Oh thank god lol I was a little bit worried there. :uhyeah:

 

[hedgehogey]

Krav Maga is not "reality based"
I thought it was? It is the official Israeli Military hand to hand combat self defense system so you'd think that it is based on reality since they are teaching it to the national army rite? I might be wrong but I though Krav Maga was a reality based martial art and focused on pure self defense, defending your self from a gun, knives, and other hostile and self-defense situations?

Tarek

Nope, not at all. Just becase it's used by an army (and as an earlier post points out, krav maga isn't actally used by the israeli army anyway) proves NOTHING about an art's effectiveness. Soldiers don't duke it out. They shoot each other. They have several weapons on their person at all times.

The vast majority of krav maga schools practice the same way they do in tkd: On cooperative opponents, not on men who hit back.

In fact, littledragon, i'd like to tell you the secret of the gracie's success. It's incredibly simple. Ready?




Sure you're ready to learn the secret?



Ok here it is: THEY GRAPPLE UNTIL ONE PERSON GIVES UP. That's all. They do this for hours every day, and have been doing so since they were, literally, children. It's the same reason boxers are so good at punching, and muay thai is so good at kicking and knees/elbows.

 

[Littledragon]

Nope, not at all. Just becase it's used by an army (and as an earlier post points out, krav maga isn't actally used by the israeli army anyway) proves NOTHING about an art's effectiveness. Soldiers don't duke it out. They shoot each other. They have several weapons on their person at all times.

The vast majority of krav maga schools practice the same way they do in tkd: On cooperative opponents, not on men who hit back.

In fact, littledragon, i'd like to tell you the secret of the gracie's success. It's incredibly simple. Ready?




Sure you're ready to learn the secret?



Ok here it is: THEY GRAPPLE UNTIL ONE PERSON GIVES UP. That's all. They do this for hours every day, and have been doing so since they were, literally, children. It's the same reason boxers are so good at punching, and muay thai is so good at kicking and knees/elbows.

Thank you for the interesting insight.

Tarek

 

[hedgehogey]

Bruce had plenty of athleticism with little knowledge and experience with any art, even Wing Chun. Does being athletic and arrogant qualify someone to be a master of fighting? Nope. That takes tenure and tried and true methods IN REAL LIFE, not the ring.

And how, exactly, without resorting to anecdotes are you going to provide proof of your techniques working in "real life"? Do you have videos we can see? Cause you can rent a UFC at blockbuster and see it in action. Where do we see YOUR STUFF in action? The military? Oh wait, the army does BJJ. Nevermind. WHERE THEN?

It's O-B-S-O-L-E-T-E. Like your views and comments. They gots ways to look up words on the net so's ya' don't have to write like a 9 year old.

And people say I'M a jerk.

I guess all my years of Shorin Ryu training won't help me in the streets.

I guess not. I guess it hasn't taught you how to debate, either.

But wait they have, many times, especially when I lived in SE Asia.

So you beat up a 90 pound rice farmer and now you're SO proud of yourself? Seriously, there's virtually noone in SE asia who approaches the size of an average american.

I guess the Marines implementing Okinawan karate for their h2h training and even adopting belt ranks,

You mean the marines doing BJJ, right?

means you and Somchat Siddachai, Bob Goosen and Tito Ortiz know better than the USMC, what is good for real life-or-death fighting and what ain't.

Well considering we fight hand to hand and they shoot people, yes. By the way, my instructor is an ex marine, and my former instructor was active army.

Both were mid-level Shorin-ka at the best when they were INVENTING kickboxing,

Superfoot didn't godamn invent kickboxing. The THAIS invented kickboxing, hundreds of years ago, something you'd know if you'd actually been to SE asia.

BTW, don't comment on kata unless you've done a karate style that understands what those movements mean, and just because a style like GJJ/BJJ/CJJ doesn't do formal kata or drills (they do, but just don't know it)

We don't. Name one thing we do that could be considered kata (defined as a prearranged series of more than five techniques, generally done in the air).

doesn't mean it isn't traditional. Regardless of what the Gracies or anyone associated with GJJ/BJJ/CJJ thinks they do a traditional art just like the traditional Okinawan and Chinese family styles that they profess to despise (for no reason other than to claim they are better).

Find where a gracie has said they despise another art.And we're NOT a traditional art, we're a sport.

Do Vanderlei Silva and Maurice Smith know who started their art in America (and most of the world except Burma, Thailand and France)? Oh, hell yeah! Do they know that the FOUNDERS of their sport were Okinawan karate-ka with limited knowledge and skill?

Hey genius: Silva and Mo Smith do MUAY THAI. MUAY godamn THAI.

Bullsh-T! Band aids fall off eventually, just like many of these MMAs and so-called modern arts will.

Thanks for telling me that. I guess i'll stop training full contact now and start relearning those katas.*

*sarcasm

Not some Johnny-Come-Lately hope shiyit or a ring/combat sport that allows you to beat yourself up more than anyone on the street ever will. That's a different mindset and intent.

Wait. I thought teh str33t was filled with "screwdrivers and murderous intent". How can a typical bjj class beat you up more than being stabbed with a screwdriver?

Public Enemy said it best, "DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE"!!!

Don't you dare associate the great Chuck D. with your chop socky crap.

P.S. Where do you train in BJJ hedge-hogey (do you)? I've trained with Ryron at Gracie Torrance. Met him through a friend of mine, Glenn F., who's been training privates there for years. Just wonderin'... Peace.

www.austinjj.com

What is your rank? Who are their instructors their? How long have you trained there? And why train there, since you obviously think bjj is crap?

 

[Flatlander]

Good. Let's carry on with our truth seeking then, and let this fluff blow away.

 

[loki09789]

Good. Let's carry on with our truth seeking then, and let this fluff blow away.

Good idea, comments about the messenger instead of about the message never really prove fruitful or productive....

First off, what is this 'reality' that trad arts are being debatebly used to prepare 'us' for?

Personally, I think the most powerful aspect of 'martial arts' training is the ability to develop stress management. Whether it is a natural disaster, car accident, job interview, verbal dispute or physical threat from man or beast the point is to be able to make sound tactical decisions, act on those decisions with technical skill and not let the stress reaction of fight or flight be so overwhelming that we fall apart when we or someone needs us to be at our best the very most.

That said, I think that trad arts are a sound part of 'reality' preparation because I have felt the benefit of trad arts training in some of the above circumstances. The stress management because of facing challenges in training, sparring, drills, tests.... all can translate to dealing with stress in 'reality.'

The problem is that trad arts, or martial arts in general does NOT address the other aspect of developing stress management: knowledge. How does martial art training, trad or modern/ecclecticl, teach you how a firearm functions so that you understand how a weapon disarm/control will differe between a slide/auto and revovler? How will martial arts teach you the verbal and active listening skills needed to de-escalate a situation? How will the arts help you deal with the best way to 'defend' your home from burglary, fire or natural disaster?

The simplest answer is that it won't. It will help you maintain control, bearing and a survival mentallity (hugely important) but it won't teach you the knowledge that other areas will. That is why I don't use 'martial arts' as a term to identify "eastern philophical/cultural empty hand/non ballistic weapon systems" as it commonly is used. "martial" is combat and "art" is the expression of systematic/scientific knowledge on a personal level to me. I can be watching a special on dogs and be studying 'martial arts' because the information from that show might make the difference between living or dieing in the event of a dog attack.

Basically, you never know, just keep training and learning. Simulation/Scenario/technical training all have their place but developing an active, creative, tactical mind is your best tool. The rest is just what you fill your tool box with so you can fix the problem. If you only load it up with Hammers, what are you going to do if you have to do surgery?

The "essential subjects" or "common task" manuels from my military days were full of specific weapon systems, communication systems, first aid, formations..... but in the end they were just tools that had to be effectively directed and controlled by skill, will and teamwork.

 

[8253]

it is not the art that does or does not work, it is the person who applies what they have learned properly. or not

 

[Littledragon]

it is not the art that does or does not work, it is the person who applies what they have learned properly. or not

Well said, I agree. But also the art plays a small factor, no matter how good you are if you train in a certain style that is bound in so much tradition it will be very hard to apply those traditional movements in a reality based street fight.

 

[loki09789]

it is not the art that does or does not work, it is the person who applies what they have learned properly. or not

Good point. I agree that it is the man in the fight that matters most. The 'art' fails the student when the man in the fight has, for what ever reason, only trained in the current definition of 'martial arts' and is not prepared with the training in other areas. As I said, if your brain is the toolbox of skills and the ability to manipulate those tools in your toolbox, but the only thing in your toolbox is hammers you are not well trained for reality.

There are many a 'trad art' and 'modern/ecclectic or combatives' school trying to draw students by advertising 'complete art' or 'real self defense' training when all they are doing is teaching how to kick and punch in ways that would be outside tournament rules. They don't align instruction to the local/state use of force/lethal force laws or cover topics other than more techniques.

 

[Digital Decay]

Any martial art/defense technique is going to make you a better fighter. It should also enable you to prevent almost any circumstance that would result in a fight. It should teach you to be the bigger man and avoid conflict except for when you really have NO other option.

Guess what, I do Krav Maga. There's no egos, no flashy BS and marketing hype is almost non-existant there. And if there is no contact in KM, then why do I leave almost every class covered in bruises and friction burns from being punched, kicked, kneed and choked for over an hour?

The instructor stresses that you HAVE to go all out, full contact all the time in class, or else you will be complacent when you are in a real conflict. That's one of his main goals, to show his students what it feels like to be choked with intent and what it feels like to get punched so we don't freeze up or panic in a real world situation. Maybe that's not the norm, and maybe I stumbled on someone that is truely qualified.

If you want to check out the studio and/or instructor, be my guest:
http://www.kravmagalb.com
I'd bet either one of the instructors could change any skeptic's view of Krav Maga.

 

[Flatlander]

Good post and welcome aboard! It's good to have a mixture of different types of arts represented here.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Huh? The former is a marketing ploy, not a real MA. It IS NOT taught by the Israeli Defense Force. Try Hagah Na... Peace.

Whew. You really have absolutely no opinion on anything, don't you.

The Haganah was a division of the fighting force in the Israeli army which fought for the establishment of the independent state which became Israel. Try telling anyone in the Israeli army that Krav Maga isn't reality-based. Also, have you served in the Israeli army that you know for a fact that Krav Maga isn't taught to them? I think a fellow student of mine who was a Captain in the Israeli army might differ with you.

Your point about training without full contact might carry some weight within the scope of your beliefs, and you are entitled to have those beliefs, but for the vast majority of people who train in martial arts, it is to gain an understanding of how to defend oneself should one be attacked. Thankfully most of us will never have to use it outside of the dojo.

You have to decide what you want from your training -- and that is a most personal choice.:asian:

 

[kenpo tiger]

Any martial art/defense technique is going to make you a better fighter. It should also enable you to prevent almost any circumstance that would result in a fight. It should teach you to be the bigger man and avoid conflict except for when you really have NO other option.

Good post. Good point. Thank you!! KT:asian:

 

[Ippon Ken]

And how, exactly, without resorting to anecdotes are you going to provide proof of your techniques working in "real life"? Do you have videos we can see? Cause you can rent a UFC at blockbuster and see it in action. Where do we see YOUR STUFF in action? The military? Oh wait, the army does BJJ. Nevermind. WHERE THEN?


And people say I'M a jerk.


I guess not. I guess it hasn't taught you how to debate, either.


So you beat up a 90 pound rice farmer and now you're SO proud of yourself? Seriously, there's virtually noone in SE asia who approaches the size of an average american.


You mean the marines doing BJJ, right?


Well considering we fight hand to hand and they shoot people, yes. By the way, my instructor is an ex marine, and my former instructor was active army.


Superfoot didn't godamn invent kickboxing. The THAIS invented kickboxing, hundreds of years ago, something you'd know if you'd actually been to SE asia.


We don't. Name one thing we do that could be considered kata (defined as a prearranged series of more than five techniques, generally done in the air).


Find where a gracie has said they despise another art.And we're NOT a traditional art, we're a sport.


Hey genius: Silva and Mo Smith do MUAY THAI. MUAY godamn THAI.

Thanks for telling me that. I guess i'll stop training full contact now and start relearning those katas.*

*sarcasm


Wait. I thought teh str33t was filled with "screwdrivers and murderous intent". How can a typical bjj class beat you up more than being stabbed with a screwdriver?


Don't you dare associate the great Chuck D. with your chop socky crap.


www.austinjj.com

What is your rank? Who are their instructors their? How long have you trained there? And why train there, since you obviously think bjj is crap?

First off, I never said BJJ (GJJ) was crap, just very limited. My instructor lives very near you in Bastrop. In fact I'm in SA if you ever want to get together and teach me how the big 'merkuns do it. That comment about 90 pound people was racist. Check yourself, fool. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to act. My parentS did that. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to debate with dolts. Playin' the dozens does that. Now if you fools wanna stop lumping every traditional MA into one category then discourse can and will be civil. If I see someone else attack TMAs then I'll attack ten-fold. That's real fighting.

So my instructors name is Ron Lindsey, he was an Austin Heavyweight Golden Gloves champ in the 60s, played starting fullback for Texas A&M, got his degree and was stationed in Okinawa in the 60s-early 70s. Now he boxed (me too for five years tough guy), which in my opinion is a better striking sport than any kickboxing. Oh back to the premise. He started doing Uechi Ryu then switched to Shorin Ryu under Sezan Kinjo, Fusei Kise and Hohan Soken. Some more chop-socky, 90 pound rice eaters who could show you a thing or twenty. So why did he switch to Shorin and never go back? Because one is a fighting art and the other a limted sport.

Kickboxing American style was formulated by Joe Lewis, Mike Stone, Chuck Norris and a bunch of other chop-sockey types, so get your facts straight. Muay Boran and Kravi Krabong have been around for a thousand years not Muay Thai, genius. Even the Muay Thai of 20 years ago was TOTALLY different than what you see now. Not only did I see authentic Thai Boxing by Thai guys, I sparred with them because they had class at my dojo. The Kyokushinkai guys were just the same. Alright. Just like most martial sports it (Muay Thai) continues to get more and more watered down. BTW didn't you come down for the Caique JJ seminar I had at UTSA in 2002? Were you the blue belt with long hair? Yeah, I started in Judo, went to boxing, did Shorin Ryu, and because I'm friends with some BJJ cats dabbled in that just to see what it was about. It's OK, but nowdays you can see its limitations, 'nawmean?

What Mo Smith did was kickboxing. What Mike McDonald does, orCro Cop or any of those cats is kickboxing. I've seen real Muay Thai and none of them compete under those rules. As far as going to Blockbuster to get validation for MAs tachs, you must be friggin' kidding. How old are you, 15? If you want proof of something get together with me and you can teach me what you know and I'll teach you what you don't know.

You know being here in Tejas, I see how ignorance can flower and how the fake can be prop'd up and the real is laughed at until it becomes commercial then it is as real as Georgey Bushy boy. There are very few legit MAs schools here. Even in elitist Austin, Houston or Dullass, unless you want to do sport, then there's plenty of that. Must be the Texasss "I love me some sports and beer mentality", or is that just the way it is in general here (the U.S. of A.)?

You know when I got into Hip Hop in the early 80s, I learned popping, breaking, writing (graf') and rap. Everyone laughed at Hip Hop. Said it was a fad and that heavy metal would conquer the music scene. With what? No real culture? No substance or depth? MTV wouldn't put any R&B or rap on, and many of those same cats run **** there. Now your moms is sayin' "24-7" and "the bomb" and ****, and my evaluation of Hip Hop as a legit culture was right and the rock-n-roll, R&B fools were completely wrong. Now rock is trying to survive through parasitism (rap metal) and straight up biting. Idiots, just like you fools believing your potpourri MAs will survive like the TMAs have and will. Get a GD clue! Well, Texas still has that late as hell to understand reality mentality. THE NHB/MMAs fad is on its way out baby. Most Texans just catch on late.

What I'm saying is that in the future, rag-tag sell-out crap will be the food of the masses and the few real ones will train in true MAs. Just like it's always been. Mark these words, young'ns. Everyone can't learn real MAs because most martial artsits aren't real, traditional or otherwise. They do it all for the ducats. You have to search to find a real TMAs teacher, they aren't usually teaching at any commercial dojos, Mc or not.

Oh and what proof do I have that what I do works against drunk Marines or three, sober Squids, young men looking to prove somein' or dumb-*** off-duty Air Police (now called Security Forces)? Their broken noses, rended necks and limbs and unconscious memories of getting knocked the f-ck out by some punk *** 18 year old karate-ka, who only weighed 150 pounds to their 200 +. So quit ASSuming hedge-hoggey (hogeys are sandwiches). I don't need to give you anything concrete unless you want to "spar" then we can see if I'm just blowing smoke or not, bruh'.

I'm right here in San Antonio, the city that ******-assed Austin wishes it could be.

 

[Marginal]

Sure you're ready to learn the secret?



Ok here it is: THEY GRAPPLE UNTIL ONE PERSON GIVES UP. That's all. They do this for hours every day, and have been doing so since they were, literally, children. It's the same reason boxers are so good at punching, and muay thai is so good at kicking and knees/elbows.

How do boxers get so good at punching by wrestling until one of them gives up?

 

[Littledragon]

First off, I never said BJJ (GJJ) was crap, just very limited. My instructor lives very near you in Bastrop. In fact I'm in SA if you ever want to get together and teach me how the big 'merkuns do it. That comment about 90 pound people was racist. Check yourself, fool. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to act. My parentS did that. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to debate with dolts. Playin' the dozens does that. Now if you fools wanna stop lumping every traditional MA into one category then discourse can and will be civil. If I see someone else attack TMAs then I'll attack ten-fold. That's real fighting.

So my instructors name is Ron Lindsey, he was an Austin Heavyweight Golden Gloves champ in the 60s, played starting fullback for Texas A&M, got his degree and was stationed in Okinawa in the 60s-early 70s. Now he boxed (me too for five years tough guy), which in my opinion is a better striking sport than any kickboxing. Oh back to the premise. He started doing Uechi Ryu then switched to Shorin Ryu under Sezan Kinjo, Fusei Kise and Hohan Soken. Some more chop-socky, 90 pound rice eaters who could show you a thing or twenty. So why did he switch to Shorin and never go back? Because one is a fighting art and the other a limted sport.

Kickboxing American style was formulated by Joe Lewis, Mike Stone, Chuck Norris and a bunch of other chop-sockey types, so get your facts straight. Muay Boran and Kravi Krabong have been around for a thousand years not Muay Thai, genius. Even the Muay Thai of 20 years ago was TOTALLY different than what you see now. Not only did I see authentic Thai Boxing by Thai guys, I sparred with them because they had class at my dojo. The Kyokushinkai guys were just the same. Alright. Just like most martial sports it (Muay Thai) continues to get more and more watered down. BTW didn't you come down for the Caique JJ seminar I had at UTSA in 2002? Were you the blue belt with long hair? Yeah, I started in Judo, went to boxing, did Shorin Ryu, and because I'm friends with some BJJ cats dabbled in that just to see what it was about. It's OK, but nowdays you can see its limitations, 'nawmean?

What Mo Smith did was kickboxing. What Mike McDonald does, orCro Cop or any of those cats is kickboxing. I've seen real Muay Thai and none of them compete under those rules. As far as going to Blockbuster to get validation for MAs tachs, you must be friggin' kidding. How old are you, 15? If you want proof of something get together with me and you can teach me what you know and I'll teach you what you don't know.

You know being here in Tejas, I see how ignorance can flower and how the fake can be prop'd up and the real is laughed at until it becomes commercial then it is as real as Georgey Bushy boy. There are very few legit MAs schools here. Even in elitist Austin, Houston or Dullass, unless you want to do sport, then there's plenty of that. Must be the Texasss "I love me some sports and beer mentality", or is that just the way it is in general here (the U.S. of A.)?

You know when I got into Hip Hop in the early 80s, I learned popping, breaking, writing (graf') and rap. Everyone laughed at Hip Hop. Said it was a fad and that heavy metal would conquer the music scene. With what? No real culture? No substance or depth? MTV wouldn't put any R&B or rap on, and many of those same cats run **** there. Now your moms is sayin' "24-7" and "the bomb" and ****, and my evaluation of Hip Hop as a legit culture was right and the rock-n-roll, R&B fools were completely wrong. Now rock is trying to survive through parasitism (rap metal) and straight up biting. Idiots, just like you fools believing your potpourri MAs will survive like the TMAs have and will. Get a GD clue! Well, Texas still has that late as hell to understand reality mentality. THE NHB/MMAs fad is on its way out baby. Most Texans just catch on late.

What I'm saying is that in the future, rag-tag sell-out crap will be the food of the masses and the few real ones will train in true MAs. Just like it's always been. Mark these words, young'ns. Everyone can't learn real MAs because most martial artsits aren't real, traditional or otherwise. They do it all for the ducats. You have to search to find a real TMAs teacher, they aren't usually teaching at any commercial dojos, Mc or not.

Oh and what proof do I have that what I do works against drunk Marines or three, sober Squids, young men looking to prove somein' or dumb-*** off-duty Air Police (now called Security Forces)? Their broken noses, rended necks and limbs and unconscious memories of getting knocked the f-ck out by some punk *** 18 year old karate-ka, who only weighed 150 pounds to their 200 +. So quit ASSuming hedge-hoggey (hogeys are sandwiches). I don't need to give you anything concrete unless you want to "spar" then we can see if I'm just blowing smoke or not, bruh'.

I'm right here in San Antonio, the city that ******-assed Austin wishes it could be.

First off, I never said BJJ (GJJ) was crap, just very limited. ~~ What do you mean by very limited??

 

[Flatlander]

Ippon Ken:

Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to act. My parentS did that.

Do you feel you honor them with this approach?

Now if you fools wanna stop lumping every traditional MA into one category then discourse can and will be civil.

Who's lumping TMA's int one big category? And why should you choose to be uncivilized in your discourse because someone disagrees with your view? I don't see any reason for your insecurity here. Most of us are quite friendly.

If you want proof of something get together with me and you can teach me what you know and I'll teach you what you don't know.

To begin to teach someone everything that they do not know would be a huge endeavour. The variety of different subjects and all the related content...wow. That's an awfully gracious offer.

You know being here in Tejas, I see how ignorance can flower and how the fake can be prop'd up and the real is laughed at until it becomes commercial then it is as real as Georgey Bushy boy.

That's your Commander in Chief soldier. Have some respect. You choose to work for him, and he pays you for it.

I don't need to give you anything concrete unless you want to "spar" then we can see if I'm just blowing smoke or not, bruh'.

Again, I don't think anyone has questioned your abilities. If you percieve them to be quality, good for you. Have a cookie. Internet challenges do not demonstrate your capabilities, digital warrior.

I hope you can continue to provide us all with your insights. We are very grateful to share your vast wealth of knowledge and experience. One more thing:

You claim

I am part Filipino. I lived in the PI for a good part of my life

then say later

rag-tag sell-out crap will be the food of the masses

then go on to declare:

You know when I got into Hip Hop in the early 80s, I learned popping, breaking, writing (graf') and rap. Everyone laughed at Hip Hop. Said it was a fad and that heavy metal would conquer the music scene. With what? No real culture? No substance or depth? MTV wouldn't put any R&B or rap on, and many of those same cats run **** there. Now your moms is sayin' "24-7" and "the bomb" and ****, and my evaluation of Hip Hop as a legit culture was right

which, to me, seems a bit contradictory. Who has sold out who's culture here?

 

[MJS]

I'e already seen someone talking about the straight blast gym on here, and I'd just like to reiterate on that. Matt Thorton does it best when he talks about aliveness. IMO, that is something that is very important to do when you're training. If your opp. is standing there, while you hit him 10 times, that is not being very alive and he's offering no resistance at all.

Many of the RBSD instructors that you see out there today, have deleted many of the things that you'll find in your more traditional arts, such as the fixed stances, punching the air and kata to name a few.

As for the stances, you need movement. I dont know about anyone else, but I havent seen people standing still while they're fighting. What is punching air going to do for you?? Nothing!! You need to focues on bag work and getting into the ring and sparring against someone offering you resistance. The kata....I really dont want to go down the road of the pros and cons of kata again, but again, it goes back to the actual sparring. You're not going to get the same results doing kata as you would by getting in the ring.

As for BJJ....it all depends on the school. My BJJ inst. is a big fan of Thorton and aliveness and he adds that into every class that we have. Many of the BJJ inst. today are crosstraining in boxing and Muay Thai, because they realize that they need that to be effective.

Mike

 

[hedgehogey]

First off, I never said BJJ (GJJ) was crap, just very limited. My instructor lives very near you in Bastrop. In fact I'm in SA if you ever want to get together and teach me how the big 'merkuns do it. That comment about 90 pound people was racist. Check yourself, fool. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to act. My parentS did that. Shorin Ryu doesn't need to teach me how to debate with dolts. Playin' the dozens does that. Now if you fools wanna stop lumping every traditional MA into one category then discourse can and will be civil. If I see someone else attack TMAs then I'll attack ten-fold. That's real fighting.

My goodness. And how will you "attack ten fold" on the internet? Will you start typing in ALL CAPS maybe?

By the way, saying southeast asians are small isn't rascist. It's reality. It's a rather poor region. I learned under a southeast asian and train with one.

So my instructors name is Ron Lindsey, he was an Austin Heavyweight Golden Gloves champ in the 60s, played starting fullback for Texas A&M, got his degree and was stationed in Okinawa in the 60s-early 70s. Now he boxed (me too for five years tough guy), which in my opinion is a better striking sport than any kickboxing. Oh back to the premise. He started doing Uechi Ryu then switched to Shorin Ryu under Sezan Kinjo, Fusei Kise and Hohan Soken. Some more chop-socky, 90 pound rice eaters who could show you a thing or twenty. So why did he switch to Shorin and never go back? Because one is a fighting art and the other a limted sport.

Sport always wins. Every time we've seen the two go up against each other, sport always beats "real fighting art".

Kickboxing American style was formulated by Joe Lewis, Mike Stone, Chuck Norris and a bunch of other chop-sockey types, so get your facts straight. Muay Boran and Kravi Krabong have been around for a thousand years not Muay Thai, genius.

1: I knew THAT.

2: The thai records were burned in the 1700s so we don't know anything about muay thai before then.

Even the Muay Thai of 20 years ago was TOTALLY different than what you see now. Not only did I see authentic Thai Boxing by Thai guys, I sparred with them because they had class at my dojo. The Kyokushinkai guys were just the same. Alright. Just like most martial sports it (Muay Thai) continues to get more and more watered down.

And which muay thai kru have you studied under?

BTW didn't you come down for the Caique JJ seminar I had at UTSA in 2002? Were you the blue belt with long hair?

No.

Yeah, I started in Judo, went to boxing, did Shorin Ryu, and because I'm friends with some BJJ cats dabbled in that just to see what it was about. It's OK, but nowdays you can see its limitations, 'nawmean?

No. Tell me it's "limitations". Try to be innovative, cause I think I know your arguements already.

As far as going to Blockbuster to get validation for MAs tachs, you must be friggin' kidding. How old are you, 15?

19, and quit with the patronizing tone. And I was talking about UFC 1-4.

You know being here in Tejas, I see how ignorance can flower and how the fake can be prop'd up and the real is laughed at until it becomes commercial then it is as real as Georgey Bushy boy. There are very few legit MAs schools here. Even in elitist Austin, Houston or Dullass, unless you want to do sport, then there's plenty of that. Must be the Texasss "I love me some sports and beer mentality", or is that just the way it is in general here (the U.S. of A.)?

HAHAHAHA. Ha. ha. I'm a carpetbagger from dc.

Get a GD clue! Well, Texas still has that late as hell to understand reality mentality. THE NHB/MMAs fad is on its way out baby. Most Texans just catch on late.

I think you already said this. I told you already, I'm going to stop sparring hard and go back to memorizing kata.*

*sarcasm again

What I'm saying is that in the future, rag-tag sell-out crap will be the food of the masses and the few real ones will train in true MAs. Just like it's always been. Mark these words, young'ns. Everyone can't learn real MAs because most martial artsits aren't real, traditional or otherwise.

You're becoming a parody of yourself. Almost a parody of a parody.

They do it all for the ducats. You have to search to find a real TMAs teacher, they aren't usually teaching at any commercial dojos, Mc or not.

Yeah, but does it work?

Oh and what proof do I have that what I do works against drunk Marines or three, sober Squids, young men looking to prove somein' or dumb-*** off-duty Air Police (now called Security Forces)? Their broken noses, rended necks and limbs and unconscious memories of getting knocked the f-ck out by some punk *** 18 year old karate-ka, who only weighed 150 pounds to their 200 +.

I said proof, not anecdotes. Proof. Something concrete.

So quit ASSuming hedge-hoggey (hogeys are sandwiches). I don't need to give you anything concrete unless you want to "spar" then we can see if I'm just blowing smoke or not, bruh'.

You are welcome to come to austin RG jiu jitsu and do some friendly vale tudo with us. Hey, do you even spar in shorin ryu?

Once again, tell me: WHERE DID YOU LEARN BJJ?