The Roots of MMA & Potential Link to Wing Chun

[Tez3]

Its fake! Like pro wrasslin



Just sayin that idea boxing an wing chun are related is based off basic similar look of old days boxin to WC. Not any real info. Just guyz hopin for smthing they can feel big-hed and look down on otherz.

It not history document, just guyz writin what tey feel and hope. Therez a guy does some history on WC but forgot his name now. You will need ur readin glasses tho, lol

It's in the rules here that you write English not whatever you are writing.

Catch wrestling isn't fake at all by the way. It's been practised for a long time in the north of England.

There are good scientific reasons to believe the Greeks and the Chinese had contact with each other, this shows in statues, pottery and other artifacts, there's no reason to believe that this was the only thing the Greeks shared with the Chinese and vice versa. Terracotta Warriors Inspired by Ancient Greek Art

 

[Knapf]

Maybe after 1911, but certainly not before. Prior to and shortly after the Boxer Rebellion the Zhong Yi, Jing Wu & Hong Men associations were teaching numerous styles side by side. These organization were responsible for popularizing the martial arts and from them came many new systems, all through exchange.

Jing Wu isn't a good example to use. They wanted to promote the mixing of Chinese martial arts with the hope that Chinese martial arts can be improved,spread all across China and so they could hold their own against Japanese and Western martial arts.

 

[Nobody Important]

Jing Wu isn't a good example to use. They wanted to promote the mixing of Chinese martial arts with the hope that Chinese martial arts can be improved,spread all across China and so they could hold their own against Japanese and Western martial arts.

That was exactly the reason for the post. To show that there wasn't this strict unwritten code that two or more styles of CMA couldn't intermingle. They could & did, so the post was a good example & appropriate. You're quoting me out of context by assuming that post was specifically about boxing mixing with CMA, it wasn't. It was about there not being a strict policy about mixing systems of CMA.

 

[Juany118]

Jing Wu isn't a good example to use. They wanted to promote the mixing of Chinese martial arts with the hope that Chinese martial arts can be improved,spread all across China and so they could hold their own against Japanese and Western martial arts.

It was also, so far as I understand, more so an organization that was set up in response to the Occupation of certain parts of China by foreign power and the social change they were bringing.

Up to that point Martial Arts teaching in China was largely secretive but their hope was that in having the school teaching the Martial Arts openly would preserve the "proper" Chinese Traditions that the Martial arts were a part of in the face of the change the existing secrecy and social change the turn of the century and occupation was bringing. They basically thought that these two dynamics would result in a slow death of traditional Chinese martial arts

 

[Knapf]

That was exactly the reason for the post. To show that there wasn't this strict unwritten code that two or more styles of CMA couldn't intermingle.

Are we even disagreeing?

They could & did, so the post was a good example & appropriate. You're quoting me out of context by assuming that post was specifically about boxing mixing with CMA, it wasn't. It was about there not being a strict policy about mixing systems of CMA.

You're forgetting that that no matter what,they are still strictly CMA so they still could mix or as you say "intermingle" according to that current society's way of thinking.

 

[Nobody Important]

It was also, so far as I understand, more so an organization that was set up in response to the Occupation of certain parts of China by foreign power and the social change they were bringing.

Up to that point Martial Arts teaching in China was largely secretive but their hope was that in having the school teaching the Martial Arts openly would preserve the "proper" Chinese Traditions that the Martial arts were a part of in the face of the change the existing secrecy and social change the turn of the century and occupation was bringing. They basically thought that these two dynamics would result in a slow death of traditional Chinese martial arts

While true, it still isn't what the post was addressing. My post was a response to this

I'm not going to say yes or no to the subject raised. Just want to state that Chinese masters during those times take loyalty very seriously. Adding moves from other kung fu styles would have been looked upon as sacrilege. Not to say that there weren't grandmasters in the past who made exceptions and learned different kung fu styles and mix them up. But still... this is Western martial arts we are talking about.

Jing Wu mixed styles, the reason isn't as important compared to the fact that it happened. The response was to show it did happen and no one lost a head for doing it.

Trying to spin context to the inclusion of WMA to support an entrenched belief that CMA styles couldn't mix because "Sifu wouldn't allow it" doesn't support the false narrative. It wasn't part of that separate conversation.

 

[Nobody Important]

Are we even disagreeing?


You're forgetting that that no matter what,they are still strictly CMA so they still could mix or as you say "intermingle" according to that current society's way of thinking.

You said they couldn't. I showed they did.

 

[Knapf]

You said they couldn't. I showed they did.

I didn't say that. Check back my original post

Adding moves from other kung fu styles would have been looked upon as sacrilege. Not to say that there weren't grandmasters in the past who made exceptions and learned different kung fu styles and mix them up.

 

[Nobody Important]

I didn't say that. Check back my original post

You implied it with the statement "that it was looked upon as sacrilege". Maybe I read too much into that, either way, it's resolved now, let's move on.

 

[Juany118]

While true, it still isn't what the post was addressing. My post was a response to this



Jing Wu mixed styles, the reason isn't as important compared to the fact that it happened. The response was to show it did happen and no one lost a head for doing it.

Trying to spin context to the inclusion of WMA to support an entrenched belief that CMA styles couldn't mix because "Sifu wouldn't allow it" doesn't support the false narrative. It wasn't part of that separate conversation.

Oh I was only responding to him with the idea that it was some how to make Chinese martial art no more competitive for lack of better term. They believed, at least from what I've read, that there Arts were already competitive they just feared that they would die out due to the older tradition of secrecy. I agree that the way in which they taught allowed for the melting of different CMAs

 

[Nobody Important]

Here's an interesting article on Western Boxing in China. It has a starting point of 1920 as becoming very popular, not to say it wasn't known before then. Either way, seems the Chinese took a real shining to it.

The Rise of Boxing in China Part I: The Evolution

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Its a shame western boxing didn't influence CMA's even more!

 

[anerlich]

Lol biased opinion off the net from angry loozers is not info

Im not a lover of rolling on teh floor wrestling guys, but pretty obvius that catch wrestling is just a hobby horse for buthurt sad old guys

These butthurt sad old guys are laughing at you from the backs of their hobby horses:

Kazushi Sakuraba - Wikipedia
Josh Barnett - Wikipedia

Hopefully you'll sound a bit more sensible once you get through puberty.

 

[Charlemagne]

These butthurt sad old guys are laughing at you from the backs of their hobby horses:

Kazushi Sakuraba - Wikipedia
Josh Barnett - Wikipedia

As are Eric Paulson, Chris Crossan, and many others.

 

[karatejj]

These butthurt sad old guys are laughing at you from the backs of their hobby horses:

Kazushi Sakuraba - Wikipedia
Josh Barnett - Wikipedia

Hopefully you'll sound a bit more sensible once you get through puberty.

You are being unrealistic dude.

If you want the ground wrestling, then best way to do it is with bjj. All this catch wrestlin stuff is for losers with something against bjj. Its like "look at me, I am doin catch wrestling, not is bjj. I am special."

Pathetic really. Someone like Sakuraba totally different thing because lives in japan where different influence. Josh Barnett = the only grudge bearing guy with something against bjj who was actually successful!!

 

[anerlich]

You are being unrealistic dude.

If you want the ground wrestling, then best way to do it is with bjj. All this catch wrestlin stuff is for losers with something against bjj. Its like "look at me, I am doin catch wrestling, not is bjj. I am special."

Pathetic really. Someone like Sakuraba totally different thing because lives in japan where different influence. Josh Barnett = the only grudge bearing guy with something against bjj who was actually successful!!

*Facepalm*

Ummmm ... where to start .... I have a black belt first degree in BJJ. Got my black in 2013.

I think I've got this particular subject covered.

 

[karatejj]

Ummmm ... where to start .... I have a black belt first degree in BJJ. Got my black in 2013.

Well done. Not sure you know more about catch wrestling than anyone else tho- is mostly made up thing for people with hate chip on their shoulder against bjj.

 

[drop bear]

You are being unrealistic dude.

If you want the ground wrestling, then best way to do it is with bjj. All this catch wrestlin stuff is for losers with something against bjj. Its like "look at me, I am doin catch wrestling, not is bjj. I am special."

Pathetic really. Someone like Sakuraba totally different thing because lives in japan where different influence. Josh Barnett = the only grudge bearing guy with something against bjj who was actually successful!!

Sort of. If you were to do MMA wrestling plays a big part because of the better positions to punch from.

 

[karatejj]

Sort of. If you were to do MMA wrestling plays a big part.

Actual wrestling not catch wrestling. Legit approach!

 

[anerlich]

Well done. Not sure you know more about catch wrestling than anyone else tho- is mostly made up thing for people with hate chip on their shoulder against bjj.

I'm very confident I know way more about catch wrestling than you.