The Roots of MMA & Potential Link to Wing Chun

[Paul_D]

Dude

So far that's "Sir", "guy" and now "Dude".

 

[Tez3]

So far that's "Sir", "guy" and now "Dude".

He's not actually reading my posts is he.

 

[Paul_D]

He's not actually reading my posts is he.

Not properly, even the bits he is ready he is misinterpreting.

 

[Tez3]

Not properly, even the bits he is ready he is misinterpreting.

It's a shame. The 'old' styles like catch are interesting, there's some great stories about comps and even fights. Not actually sure what it had to do with the OP though. Ah well. I'm just about to settle down and watch the Tour de France. they are showing the whole race everyday in full, sheer bliss.

 

[karatejj]

we are talking about people who know about them and catch is far more known about than BJJ. More people may actually do BJJ than catch but the public awareness is different

Not true again. BJJ much more well known that catch in UK. Anyone that watches MMA know what bjj is, and that a lot of people!

You said catch was fake and was done only by people who hate BJJ

This is what I found, maybe you think different

While people in the UK do know more about martial arts today than they have ever done, thanks mostly to the film industry and the Olympics in London, it is still a niche activity/sport. MMA is popular among a small group of people

Untrue. The PPV number for Conor McGregor vs Alvarez in UK was 315000 people. Mike Tyson vs Lennox Lewis PPV audience in UK (huge fight) was 750000 people. How many people have heard of boxing in uk? With audience size 42% of boxing audience size, how many people do you think heard of MMA? All of those will know what BJJ is. Catch wrestlin? Not so much.

We have a small amount of people here who play American football, there's even a league but it's by no means 'popular' to play but will have a huge number watching the Superbowl on the television. A lot of people know about American football but isn't popular here to play.

To compare the SKY (PPV) audience for NFL in UK is 100000-200000 people, less than UFC.

Here you will find people who knew their dad/granddad did catch wrestling, in the old working men's clubs there's trophies from the catch competitions. It's remembered and known about. There are still people who do it and more people who know about it.

Not true, you make stuff up to try and save your argument. BJJ is much much more well known in UK than catch which is pretty much dead

 

[Paul_D]

To compare the SKY (PPV) audience for NFL in UK is 100000-200000 people, less than UFC.

Neither the NFL nor UFC are PPV in the UK.

 

[Paul_D]

Untrue. The PPV number for Conor McGregor vs Alvarez in UK was 315000 people. Mike Tyson vs Lennox Lewis PPV audience in UK (huge fight) was 750000 people. How many people have heard of boxing in uk? With audience size 42% of boxing audience size, how many people do you think heard of MMA?

No, it's not untrue. MA is a niche sporting activity because only a small number (in comparison to other sports) of people take part in it.

Whilst yes lots of people have heard of MMA, very few have an interest in it. Having heard of something and being a fan of it are not the same thing, it is a niche sport in the UK, not in terms of public awareness, but in terms of participants and number of fans, when compared to other sports.

 

[Tez3]

Not true again. BJJ much more well known that catch in UK. Anyone that watches MMA know what bjj is, and that a lot of people!



This is what I found, maybe you think different



Untrue. The PPV number for Conor McGregor vs Alvarez in UK was 315000 people. Mike Tyson vs Lennox Lewis PPV audience in UK (huge fight) was 750000 people. How many people have heard of boxing in uk? With audience size 42% of boxing audience size, how many people do you think heard of MMA? All of those will know what BJJ is. Catch wrestlin? Not so much.



To compare the SKY (PPV) audience for NFL in UK is 100000-200000 people, less than UFC.



Not true, you make stuff up to try and save your argument. BJJ is much much more well known in UK than catch which is pretty much dead

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or are just plain thick because you are simply arguing for the sake of it.
As you've already been told neither the UFC nor NFL is on PPV here. The UFC is on a small channel here with a small coverage, BT sport, it has 900,000 television customers most of whom like myself get it free with our broadband and telephone landline services. the majority watch it for the football matches. The numbers you quote for watching boxing are good ones but considering that the population of the UK is over 64 million, it's not the figures you get for football, rugby, horse racing and cricket. Football has viewing figures of 3-4 million per match per week in the UK.
The McConnor Alvarez fight was on BT2 here, non PPV. UFC 205 date, fight card, UK time, TV channel and odds for McGregor v Alvarez. A hint here... don't take your figures from the Daily Fail, it lies ... a lot.

The rest of your nonsense makes it clear you have little idea what I'm writing about, your confusion, your disrespect of other styles and your bewildered ramblings show us you are only determined to argue no matter what, probably until the thread is locked down.

 

[wckf92]

So far that's "Sir", "guy" and now "Dude".

He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer is he...

 

[Tez3]

It's time to say enough already and get back to the OP. it would be a shame if another thread is locked.

 

[Steve]

, I do have a question. If catch wrestling is still popular in the U.K., why are brits, by your own admission, so mediocre at wrestling? Tez3, you yourself have said many times that wrestling (broad use of the term) is not popular in the UK. But now are saying the exact opposite.

 

[anerlich]

My grappling base is BJJ. And without BJJ, I doubt I would have taken up grappling.

That said, other wrestling arts like Catch Wrestling and Sambo have a lot to offer a Jiu Jitiero. They have a huge number of techniques, many of which are illegal in Jiu Jitsu competition, but would work great in a defense situation. As well as many unusual positions, pins, techniques, and tweaks of BJJ techniques, which can be integrated in a competitive Jiu Jitsu athlete's game and surprise a less open minded opponent. The recent explosion of leglock technicians at high levels of competition did not come from the Gracies.

Taking up one art (or more to the point for this forum, one particular lineage) doesn't actually require you to pour scorn on other arts. And such an attitude is immature and foolish.

 

[anerlich]

So far that's "Sir", "guy" and now "Dude".

Awaiting "Bro".

 

[Tez3]

The mistake many people make is reading something and thinking it says something else. Karatejj keeps insisting that 'popular' and known' are the same thing, they aren't. A great many things are known about but it doesn't make them popular. Catch wrestling as I have said many times now is known here, catch wrestling is genuine, not made up or fake. As I said many people up north can tell you stories about their family connections to catch, have medals, trophies etc won by fathers, grandfathers. This proves catch is real, not fake, it doesn't say that it's popular or trained everywhere, it doesn't mean people are doing it instead of BJJ, what it does is prove is it's existence. Kartejj stated catch was fake and done by people who hate BJJ, I am showing he is wrong and actually offensive.

BJJ is also known here and is growing in popularity, which is good. The two things don't contradict each other, only a thicko out to cause trouble would confuse them, karatejj was determined to prove I was saying catch wrestling is more popular than BJJ, I wasn't and it isn't. Judo is very well know here due to many factors eg Olympic success, the Diana Rigg and Cathy Gale characters from the Avengers, lots of Judo clubs and the fact it's been here since the late 19th century. It's always been the go to style for writers to have their characters doing. Chinese styles became popular here after Bruce Lee burst into the public consciousness, martial arts as a whole got much more well known with it, a boost for everyone. In the sixties though 'all in wrestling' hit the televisions, think budget WWE, hugely entertaining though, grannies loved it.
When Lee Hasdell brought MMA ( 1995, known as shootfighting then) to our shores, Judo was the base 'ground' style for Brits. BJJ as homegrown instructors came through the ranks, (everyone knows how long it takes to grade in BJJ) has grown and is still growing both as an adjunct to stand up for MMA and as a sport in itself. However as had been said, martial arts, all of them are a small niche activity in the UK, most know about 'kung fu' but don't practice, the same with 'karate'. I think the public differentiate between them by what they wear!

It's really tiresome trying to explain to karatejj something quite simple, he called catch fake....I have showed it's not. He said it's done by people who hate BJJ.... I have showed it's not. Catch wrestling has a small amount of practitioners, ie it's not done by many but it is known ( that doesn't make it a 'popular' thing to do, putting ferrets down your trousers ...ferret legging... is a well known activity here but few do it, it's known but not popular, can't imagine why) by many especially up here in the north of England. There is a documentary that was shown on mainstream television here about catch, it received a lot of publicity and articles in the press.

The catch instructors are often invited to MMA gyms to pass on their knowledge because fighters are always looking for an advantage. I've been doing BJJ for quite a while, I find BJJ people inquisitive and always keen to see what others have. The catch people I've meet are likewise, both groups of people seem to want to challenge themselves, I know our BJJ instructor enjoyed himself immensely when he went across to train with the catch guys. the styles compliment each other.

For the record other types of wrestling, the ones that compete in the Olympics are rarer than hens teeth here, I don't even know where you would train them.

One last thing before I go. I am wondering if catch as catch can wrestling to give it it's proper name is something slightly or even quite a bit different in the US as opposed to here in the UK?

 

[karatejj]

, I do have a question. If catch wrestling is still popular in the U.K., why are brits, by your own admission, so mediocre at wrestling? Tez3, you yourself have said many times that wrestling (broad use of the term) is not popular in the UK. But now are saying the exact opposite.

Catch wresting not popular in UK!! Also not well know. BJJ more popular and more well known than Catch in whole world include UK!!

 

[karatejj]

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or are just plain thick because you are simply arguing for the sake of it.
As you've already been told neither the UFC nor NFL is on PPV here. The UFC is on a small channel here with a small coverage, BT sport, it has 900,000 television customers most of whom like myself get it free with our broadband and telephone landline services. the majority watch it for the football matches. The numbers you quote for watching boxing are good ones but considering that the population of the UK is over 64 million, it's not the figures you get for football, rugby, horse racing and cricket. Football has viewing figures of 3-4 million per match per week in the UK.
The McConnor Alvarez fight was on BT2 here, non PPV. UFC 205 date, fight card, UK time, TV channel and odds for McGregor v Alvarez. A hint here... don't take your figures from the Daily Fail, it lies ... a lot.

The rest of your nonsense makes it clear you have little idea what I'm writing about, your confusion, your disrespect of other styles and your bewildered ramblings show us you are only determined to argue no matter what, probably until the thread is locked down.

Lol at argue now whether it PPV or not, nothing to do with numbers watchin NFL (which you said popular) or boxing (which is def popular) vs MMA.

MMA on numbers more popular than NFL, and hald as popular as huge boxing match, so it is popular and many people heard of it and BJJ in UK.

You just like argue about nothin I think, lol

 

[Paul_D]

Lol at argue now whether it PPV or not, nothing to do with numbers watchin NFL (which you said popular) or boxing (which is def popular) vs MMA.

MMA on numbers more popular than NFL, and hald as popular as huge boxing match, so it is popular and many people heard of it and BJJ in UK.

You just like argue about nothin I think, lol

No, it isn't popular, it is a minority sport. People knowing about it, and being interested in it are two different things. It's not that we like to argue, it's that you don't seem to be able to understand the difference.

 

[Nobody Important]

The mistake many people make is reading something and thinking it says something else. Karatejj keeps insisting that 'popular' and known' are the same thing, they aren't. A great many things are known about but it doesn't make them popular. Catch wrestling as I have said many times now is known here, catch wrestling is genuine, not made up or fake. As I said many people up north can tell you stories about their family connections to catch, have medals, trophies etc won by fathers, grandfathers. This proves catch is real, not fake, it doesn't say that it's popular or trained everywhere, it doesn't mean people are doing it instead of BJJ, what it does is prove is it's existence. Kartejj stated catch was fake and done by people who hate BJJ, I am showing he is wrong and actually offensive.

BJJ is also known here and is growing in popularity, which is good. The two things don't contradict each other, only a thicko out to cause trouble would confuse them, karatejj was determined to prove I was saying catch wrestling is more popular than BJJ, I wasn't and it isn't. Judo is very well know here due to many factors eg Olympic success, the Diana Rigg and Cathy Gale characters from the Avengers, lots of Judo clubs and the fact it's been here since the late 19th century. It's always been the go to style for writers to have their characters doing. Chinese styles became popular here after Bruce Lee burst into the public consciousness, martial arts as a whole got much more well known with it, a boost for everyone. In the sixties though 'all in wrestling' hit the televisions, think budget WWE, hugely entertaining though, grannies loved it.
When Lee Hasdell brought MMA ( 1995, known as shootfighting then) to our shores, Judo was the base 'ground' style for Brits. BJJ as homegrown instructors came through the ranks, (everyone knows how long it takes to grade in BJJ) has grown and is still growing both as an adjunct to stand up for MMA and as a sport in itself. However as had been said, martial arts, all of them are a small niche activity in the UK, most know about 'kung fu' but don't practice, the same with 'karate'. I think the public differentiate between them by what they wear!

It's really tiresome trying to explain to karatejj something quite simple, he called catch fake....I have showed it's not. He said it's done by people who hate BJJ.... I have showed it's not. Catch wrestling has a small amount of practitioners, ie it's not done by many but it is known ( that doesn't make it a 'popular' thing to do, putting ferrets down your trousers ...ferret legging... is a well known activity here but few do it, it's known but not popular, can't imagine why) by many especially up here in the north of England. There is a documentary that was shown on mainstream television here about catch, it received a lot of publicity and articles in the press.

The catch instructors are often invited to MMA gyms to pass on their knowledge because fighters are always looking for an advantage. I've been doing BJJ for quite a while, I find BJJ people inquisitive and always keen to see what others have. The catch people I've meet are likewise, both groups of people seem to want to challenge themselves, I know our BJJ instructor enjoyed himself immensely when he went across to train with the catch guys. the styles compliment each other.

For the record other types of wrestling, the ones that compete in the Olympics are rarer than hens teeth here, I don't even know where you would train them.

One last thing before I go. I am wondering if catch as catch can wrestling to give it it's proper name is something slightly or even quite a bit different in the US as opposed to here in the UK?

Good post Tez, and to answer your question, no it does not. In USA Catch as Catch Can has a long history and means to get a hold any way you can. Depending on where you are it went by various names like, No Holds Barred or Rough & Tumble. I think people mistake it for WWF style a lot because it branched off into that from the circus back in 1940s.

Catch is very popular in USA but probably best known as the foundation of Freestyle. Freestyle, though doesn't use the illegal techniques (hooking, gouging & purring) in competition, lots of places don't even teach them. Most high schools offer wrestling here and it is all based on a mix of Irish Collar & Elbow, Westmoreland, Lancanshire, Devonshire, & Cornish methods along with Greco Roman. Pennsylvania is big on wrestling, it's a tradition that's been in my family for generations. Many of the styles above are also names of counties in PA, named after their predecessors in England, each bringing with them their English traditions, one of which was Wrasslin. I have many state & regional champions in my family & carry no doubt in their ability to successfully defend themselves. It is not a fake method, & IMO the only reason why MMA shot to popularity.

 

[Tez3]

Catch wresting not popular in UK!! Also not well know. BJJ more popular and more well known than Catch in whole world include UK!!

Look, for the final time son, no one is saying catch is popular, it's well known, something completely different. Theresa May the Prime Minster is well known, she is absolutely not popular, get it now?

Ooooo... the whole world eh, now you sound like a small child or a fanboy. neither of which is attractive.

You just like argue about nothin I think, lol

No, dear, we aren't arguing at all, we are telling you something. You are the one arguing as you seem to a lot here not just on this thread. If you can't tell the difference between 'known' and 'popular' it's no wonder you don't understand.

MMA on numbers more popular than NFL, and hald as popular as huge boxing match, so it is popular and many people heard of it and BJJ in UK.

This is just plain silly.

Oh and as much as I wish it otherwise MMA isn't as popular as boxing, just because you think it is. I doubt that MMA is more popular than the NFL anywhere but that I'll leave to Americans to say yay or nay on that. I know very little about it, I'll stick to subjects I know about.

 

[karatejj]

No, it isn't popular, it is a minority sport. People knowing about it, and being interested in it are two different things. It's not that we like to argue, it's that you don't seem to be able to understand the difference.

Sure its a minority sport, but more peopl are know about MMA and BJJ that know about catch, thats for sure

Tez said this about NFL

We have a small amount of people here who play American football, there's even a league but it's by no means 'popular' to play but will have a huge number watching the Superbowl on the television. A lot of people know about American football but isn't popular here to play.

So "a lot" of people know about NFL in UK, and is "huge number" watching superbowl. But numbers for superbowl is lower than numbers for Connor McGreggor fight!!

So MMA must have more than "a lot" of people know about, and have more than "huge number" watchin!!

Teh problem with u an Tez is that you not honest.

BTW, what is you're avatar, is in mannequin wearining hoodie?