The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[drop bear]

"Being a fighter"

might make them unable to not "fight"
or maybe more importantly not understanding its not "fighting" as they'er trained to ..

"A world champion Thai-style kickboxer was shot to death in the middle of a busy San Francisco street Friday after he chased down a hit-and-run driver who had slammed into his parked car minutes earlier. Alex Gong, 30, was pronounced dead at the scene on Fifth Street near Harrison Street.Aug 2, 2003"

Met and talked with him a week before this happened...

You don't think people with no ability to fight are not victims of violence?

Teenager who allegedly stabbed woman in 'random' attack at Yamanto Central known to child safety - ABC News

amp-abc-net-au.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"Being a fighter"

might make them unable to not "fight"

It's the other way around. Being a fighter (have win/lose record), you don't want to beat up any untrain person in the street.

Most of the street fight may cause by you (general YOU) are not sure you can handle the situation, but you know if you back off, you may think you are a coward for the rest of your life. Trying to prove that you are not a coward can be the main reason for you to pick up that fight.

If you are a fighter and have won many matches in the ring, your thinking will be different. You will tell yourself that to fight against a street guy who has no MA training doesn't mean anything (like to beat up a grade school kid).

If you are

- a fighter, there is nothing for you to prove to beat up an untrain person. This way of thinking will give you an easy way to back up and avoid the fight.
- not a fighter, you may think to beat up an untrain person can mean a lot to you. You may get into unnecessary fights for no good reason.

 

[drop bear]

This is a good point thats irked me for a long time. How many true self defense "experts" are out there to learn from? To be an expert in something you have to have a lot of experience in it. Even a dozen true self defense experiences wouldn't make someone an expert. It's not enough experience. I've been in more than a dozen real rights in my youth. I'll still never claim to be an expert in fighting.

I think i will invent a term called priorities of competence.

And basically it means we decide a set of standards to which we judge a person's ability to do whatever their thing is.

In sport the priority of competence is winning fights. And we get all sorts of unlikely people who intuitively shouldn't do that. Who are good at that.

Sean Omalley comes to mind.

Where in self defence we can't do that and have to shift our priorities. We judge people by their linage or their previous career or their ability to present themselves as competent.

But this also shifts their priorities of competence and they move away from fighting people to other things. Because it is more efficient for them.

Detroit Dust comes to mind.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

See, I shoot an air pistol. That doesn't stop me getting shot as such though. I have marksmanship abilities, but that won't necessarily save me. There are wider tactical and strategic problems

 

[Buka]

Like that? Could make a bumper sticker.

I do like that. And I like bumper stickers.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I do like that. And I like bumper stickers.

I always kind of thought he was just joking. He used to give the Buddhist students a hard time too. Taoist that he was. “You know the Dalai Lama lost, right?”

 

[Buka]

Going to a Rory Miller seminar or something is on my bucket list

He’s an interesting guy and has a whole ton of experience, including International experience. I don’t agree with some of his footwork methods, but that’s probably just
personal preference.

He was at a four day training camp I attended that had a ton of teachers. He was a nice mellow guy.

 

[Haruhiko]

Going to a Rory Miller seminar or something is on my bucket list

I'm ashamed to admit I don't know who that is, but at the risk of digression I can share that one of my rowing coaches at University was a former SAS agent, and his training regimen for us was insane. Not because of what he asked us to do, but the way he asked us to do it. He had a word for us when he wanted us to spontaneously sprint uphill (we had to drop everything we were doing and run up a steep grassy hill just behind the boat sheds): "ORDINANCE, ORDINANCE, ORDINANCE". There were other funny things too, and I'm sure he hammed it up a bit.

Donn Draeger is another example of someone who not only had special forces experience, but a succeeding TMA experience. He went on publishing and holding private seminars about the efficacy of koryū in modern contexts.

There's also an interesting short video clip with the late great Sir Christopher Lee (a former SAS wet operations agent) on the set of The Lord of The Rings about "what kind of noise happens when somebody's stabbed in the back... because [he did]...":

 

[Haruhiko]

It's the other way around. Being a fighter (have win/lose record), you don't want to beat up any untrain person in the street.

Most of the street fight may cause by you (general YOU) are not sure you can handle the situation, but you know if you back off, you may think you are a coward for the rest of your life. Trying to prove that you are not a coward can be the main reason for you to pick up that fight.

If you are a fighter and have won many matches in the ring, your thinking will be different. You will tell yourself that to fight against a street guy who has no MA training doesn't mean anything (like to beat up a grade school kid).

If you are

- a fighter, there is nothing for you to prove to beat up an untrain person. This way of thinking will give you an easy way to back up and avoid the fight.
- not a fighter, you may think to beat up an untrain person can mean a lot to you. You may get into unnecessary fights for no good reason.

The old adage "the goal of the martial arts is in the not using of the martial arts".

Ego is enormously prevalent in UFC. Pride comes before the fall.

 

[Haruhiko]

Would one consider this man to be an expert,

Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh?

 

[Haruhiko]

I do like that. And I like bumper stickers.

"Pazuzu 2028" at this rate @Gyakuto

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The old adage "the goal of the martial arts is in the not using of the martial arts".

The worst nightmare for any MA person can be - You get into one street fight. In that fight, you only throw 1 punch. You kill your opponent. You spend the rest of your life in jail.

IMO, the best way to handle a street fight is to play 100% defense. When your opponent finds out that you have no intention to hurt him, also your opponent finds out there is no way that he can hurt you, the fight will stop, you and your opponent will live happy ever after.

One of my students told me that in one fight, he had no problem to block each and every punch that his opponent thew at him. Finally, his opponent just gave up. He told me in that whole fight, he didn't even throw 1 punch at his opponent. I do believe this can be the best street fight attitude to have.

 

[Haruhiko]

The worst nightmare for any MA person can be - You get into one street fight. In that fight, you only throw 1 punch. You kill your opponent. You spend the rest of your life in jail.

IMO, the best way to handle a street fight is to play 100% defense. When your opponent finds out that you have no intention to hurt him, also your opponent finds out there is no way that he can hurt you, the fight will stop, you and your opponent will live happy ever after.

I honestly think that Daitō-ryu aikijujutsu is the most useful art to know for exactly the scenario you described.

De-escalation, redirection, kiting. Straight face, conversation, deflection.

I think the fact that a lot of MMA guys get into bloody fights in public in the first place is telling. Does violence find them, or is it the other way around?

 

[windwalker099]

It's the other way around. Being a fighter (have win/lose record), you don't want to beat up any untrain person in the street.

How would one know if a person is untrained or not?
In the street, consider all equal...
Never know who has a CCW. "concealed carry" or not.

Why it's better not to engage with a person if possible.

Most of the street fight may cause by you (general YOU) are not sure you can handle the situation, but you know if you back off, you may think you are a coward for the rest of your life. Trying to prove that you are not a coward can be the main reason for you to pick up that fight.

Many examples of those "trained" not able to "back off" feeling they can handle it.
What does "handling it" mean ?

If you are a fighter and have won many matches in the ring, your thinking will be different. You will tell yourself that to fight against a street guy who has no MA training doesn't mean anything (like to beat up a grade school kid).

---

What does being "fighter" mean ?

Mindset?

"ruthlessness (残)
In eliminating the weeds, one has to do a conscientious job in fulfilling his duty. In shooting a tiger one must kill it. If weeds were not cleared (properly) they would revive. If a tiger is (only) wounded, it could bite back. Therefore, (no matter) in fighting an elephant or a hare, a lion would use its full strength."

Some CMA styles, like certain military training programs, cultivate a mindset that may not always translate well outside the ring or in civilian life. To me, "fighting" means either causing harm to someone or preventing them from harming me.

Of course, in professions where such encounters are expected, the emphasis often shifts to restraint rather than harm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have a biased opinion due to my upbringing and experiences.

I'm not sure it can be called biased when what you say is based on reality. People can be cruel and often are. Sorry you had to experience violence up close like that.

After I moved up north and changed my everything around, these things sort of just stopped happening around me.

Location. is always going to be a factor. But it's good that "you made it out."

 

[Badhabits]

The worst nightmare for any MA person can be - You get into one street fight. In that fight, you only throw 1 punch. You kill your opponent. You spend the rest of your life in jail.

IMO, the best way to handle a street fight is to play 100% defense. When your opponent finds out that you have no intention to hurt him, also your opponent finds out there is no way that he can hurt you, the fight will stop, you and your opponent will live happy ever after.

One of my students told me that in one fight, he had no problem to block each and every punch that his opponent thew at him. Finally, his opponent just gave up. He told me in that whole fight, he didn't even throw 1 punch at his opponent. I do believe this can be the best street fight attitude to have.

I'm on board with this to a good extent. Personal experience has shown me I have better skills at preventing someone from beating my a$$ than beating the other person. This is fine with me at this point in life. But when you're younger it's not as good for your social standing lol.

 

[Badhabits]

I honestly think that Daitō-ryu aikijujutsu is the most useful art to know for exactly the scenario you described.

De-escalation, redirection, kiting. Straight face, conversation, deflection.

I think the fact that a lot of MMA guys get into bloody fights in public in the first place is telling. Does violence find them, or is it the other way around?

Mmmm in my twenties it seemed like everyone in my age group was taking MMA classes or playing MMA at home with friends. Out at clubs, bars and parties there really were a lot of people looking for a good fight. That's normal, but the difference was that now you had to worry about people that actually knew how to do a little rolling and grappling. One good thing that came of it, at least in my area, was that some TMA instructors started integrating material to handle this new "threat". You started seeing more guys putting more emphasis on ground game, getting back to your feet quickly etc. Pretty cool seeing martial arts sort of evolve in real time.

 

[isshinryuronin]

One of my students told me that in one fight, he had no problem to block each and every punch that his opponent thew at him. Finally, his opponent just gave up. He told me in that whole fight, he didn't even throw 1 punch at his opponent. I do believe this can be the best street fight attitude to have.

A few thoughts on this:

When you defeat the opponent's spirit you've won the fight.

A kick takes more energy than a block. A punch takes more energy than evading it. Of course, a timely counter is a good investment of energy whenever the opportunity presents itself. This is one strategy that's good against a less skilled or poorly conditioned opponent. Getting into a brawl with punches flying on both sides allows a door for bad luck to enter. Discipline and efficiency are potent weapons.

Matsumura is said to have told a defeated foe, "You were determined to win while I was determined not to lose." This lesson was passed on to Itosu who, in turn, passed it down to Funakoshi. For these acknowledged masters to embrace this strategy, there is perhaps some wisdom here.