The perils of cross training

[Flying Crane]

Actually...I would kind of agree with this statement. If someone else went through and combined what they would consider the 'best' of each style they trained, then taught that to you, you have both a quicker way to crosstrain, and an oppurtunity to refine their combination of arts. The only real downside is that what they consider the best of each style they trained may not be what you would have considered the best of each style, and you don't really get a choice int he styles that were crosstrained.

I disagree. Often what makes someone good is having gone thru the complete training for each system. If he condenses his selection down to a "streamlined" system comprised of what he feels is the "best" from several systems, and only teaches that, he is robbing his students of the experience of the full training. When this happens, the guy who did the training and established the new system is often very good because he had the full training in each system, but every generation removed from him is worse and worse.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Could you describe the solution most styles have?

If your opponent tries to lift you up (to remain stand up game) instead of drag you down (play ground game), there are many solution there. As long as you can "glue" your body on your opponent's body, he can't pick you up (he can't pick up his own body). The moment that he tries to put you down (in stand up game), you borrow his force and do your thing.

The dragging down is a complete different situation. the stand up game stop there and the ground game start.

you could study purely strikes, nothing else, no throws, no chokes, no locks, just strikes.... I bet you could use or learn to use one of those strikes to deal with pretty much any attack that could be thrown at you....Is that a complete art?......

It will work until your opponent gets behind you, drag you down "by surprise". When your opponent's rear neck choke kill you, your lifetime striking training won't do you any good. It will go the other way too. If your punch can kill your opponent, his life long ground skill training won't do him any good either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

when people criticise it for being incomplete, they often have an incomplete understanding of the system...

If you have a degree in computer science, you may get a job to work on database. Oneday you lose that job and there is no database job available but there is a Google search engine job available, if you have computer science degree, you should be able to take that Google search engine job without any problem.

MA training is like to obtain a "computer science" degree, you have to take classes in:

- computer achitecture
- computer programming
- database
- operating system
- automata theory
- numerical analysis
- web design
- internet search engine
- antivirus programming
- ...

before you can get your degree. If you are only good in database but nothing else, that's "incomplete".

 

[Guy Preston]

If you have a degree in computer science, you may get a job to work on database. Oneday you lose that job and there is no database job available but there is a Google search engine job available, if you have computer science degree, you should be able to take that Google search engine job without any problem.

MA training is like to obtain a "computer science" degree, you have to take classes in:

- computer achitecture
- computer programming
- database
- operating system
- automata theory
- numerical analysis
- web design
- internet search engine
- antivirus programming
- ...

before you can get your degree. If you are only good in database but nothing else, that's "incomplete".

Not a great analogy, unless your comparing the degree to a black belt??

Training in a martial art is not like getting a degree...the degree stage is no where near full understanding of a system.

Your analogy works if you took for example someone who had achieved 1st Dan, then comes up against an attack they can't deal with...

but it doesn't work with someone who's continued training way beyond that stage, developed their understanding of their art, and also an understanding of themselves within their art....

Following your analogy, if you stop when you get your black belt the rest is absolutely spot on, but if you don't stop, and you go on further within your art, learn all you can, experiment with your knowledge, re evaluate what you know, you could confidently deal with any situation just as you could walk into the other job.

So in fact, your analogy actually backs up my point, albeit not if you think a black belt constitutes the end of the path, rather than the beginning...

 

[Guy Preston]

Some systems are also not supposed to be 'jack of all trades' as your analogy would suggest...

In boxing, kicks have no place... boxers who want to compete have no need of them - in self defence, kicks aren't necessarily essential (although they are handy) - I don't think the lack of kicks makes that an incomplete system, as it has all required to do what it is supposed to... It may not make someone a total body fighter, but that's not the goal of boxing...

A boxer who has trained and trained, while they may only punch, is way more formidable and complete as a fighter than someone who has dabbled in a few things looking for completion...

 

[Guy Preston]

It will work until your opponent gets behind you, drag you down "by surprise". When your opponent's rear neck choke kill you, your lifetime striking training won't do you any good. It will go the other way too. If your punch can kill your opponent, his life long ground skill training won't do him any good either.

depends on how and where they strike... There's no way to definitively prove which is better, I'm not personally a striker, but there are points within the arm that if struck take away strength, a choke or strangle isn't immediate, if the defender knew what they were doing, and struck the correct places, with the necessary power, also considering where they could kick, even if only a heel to the shin, or what they can also hit with their head - the example becomes far more vague - it can't be used as an absolute - this wont work....