The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[Alan Smithee]

i didn't say anything about grabbing wrists, i said grabs your clothing, which is not unrealistic, its 90% of all the fights ive seen, start with one person grabbing the other one, of the other 10% 90% of those start with a wild hay maker

You wrote if you have room I won't be able to strike you, to which I reply: you do not always have room to just run away.

If you someone grabs your clothing who is just as strong as you, you will not likely be able to joint lock him. Shoulder throw maybe, but even there Aikido has one version and no back-ups, whereas Judo has a plethora of variations to the throws. So you are still walking a fine line.

 

[jobo]

You wrote if you have room I won't be able to strike you, to which I reply: you do not always have room to just run away.

If you someone grabs your clothing who is just as strong as you, you will not likely be able to joint lock him. Shoulder throw maybe, but even there Aikido has one version and no back-ups, whereas Judo has a plethora of variations to the throws. So you are still walking a fine line.

well you've clearly got no fighting experiences, im not convinced you've got any aikido experiences, just on some Bushido expedition.

so your saying'' not likely'' now, you started off saying it was impossible. so that is a major concession on your part. how have you assessed the likelihood and what % does '' '' not likely '' represent

 

[Alan Smithee]

Nowhere do I say you HAVE to roll or your wrist will be broke, but if you don't release the pressure in some manner, you will be injured, which is why people "throw" (roll).

Still nonsensical. You will not be able to move an equally strong opponents wrist, let alone injure it. Striking the dude as a deflection, then move over to the joint lock won't change a thing, he will react the same anyway and restrain.

If you are good enough to completely knock him out, well then your joint lock is pointless lol

 

[Alan Smithee]

well you've clearly got no fighting experiences, im not convinced you've got any aikido experiences, just on some Bushido expedition.

so your saying'' not likely'' now, you started off saying it was impossible. so that is a major concession on your part. how have you assessed the likelihood and what % does '' '' not likely '' represent

I have done joint manipulation for 4 years straight out of Aikidio.

 

[Alan Smithee]

so your saying'' not likely'' now, you started off saying it was impossible. so that is a major concession on your part. how have you assessed the likelihood and what % does '' '' not likely '' represent

In any reasonable circumstance you will fail. That's what it means. I do not know if the best Aikidoka of all time would be able to, but I find it likely that you are NOT that guy.

 

[jobo]

I have done joint manipulation for 4 years straight out of Aikidio.

so no fighting experiences then ?

 

[Alan Smithee]

so no fighting experiences then ?

What do you mean by fighting experience? I have had street fights if that's what you mean. I had the instructor trying to prove that what he was teaching works if I don't comply. He failed. Then I tried with my partner back and forth - same results. My partner actually was the one suggesting that: "there is no way this would work".

 

[jobo]

In any reasonable circumstance you will fail. That's what it means. I do not know if the best Aikidoka of all time would be able to, but I find it likely that you are NOT that guy.

your not answering the question , how have you assessed the likelihood ?

you just keep changing the definition with out stating what you mean

so far we have had''' impossible
not likely and now
reasonable circumstances

what are you basing this plethora of measures on ?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yet you can't reference a single instance of when they do, what technique is involved, and any Akikai demonstrations that involve the defender striking. By striking I mean punching, karate chopping, kicking etc

By striking I am referring to punching and palm strikes, used by the defender, prior to the application.

But like I said, I don't train it, I watch it, been watching it for 7 years, I don't know the names of the things being done, they are all in Japanese and I don't need to know them, and I said if you don't want to believe it, don't, it matters not to me what you believe. But based on what you are saying here...you may want to look for a different dojo to train at. Or look to a different style, you don't seem to like Aikido as you currently train it.

You have a nice day.

 

[jobo]

What do you mean by fighting experience? I have had street fights if that's what you mean. I had the instructor trying to prove that what he was teaching works if I don't comply. He failed. Then I tried with my partner back and forth - same results. My partner actually was the one suggesting that: "there is no way this would work".

you dont seem to understand the mechanics of a fight at all, you dont know that grabbing your clothing is a very common means of attack, you dismissed as very unlikely..
if someones telling me what will and will not work as self defence i want to know where that opinion has come from, partner drill from any martial arts are not a good measure

 

[Alan Smithee]

your not answering the question , how have you assessed the likelihood ?

you just keep changing the definition with out stating what you mean

so far we have had''' impossible
not likely and now
reasonable circumstances

what are you basing this plethora of measures on ?

Never once used the word impossible. I stated scenarios in which it works.

 

[Alan Smithee]

you dont seem to understand the mechanics of a fight at all, you dont know that grabbing your clothing is a very common means of attack, you dismissed as very unlikely..
if someones telling me what will and will not work as self defence i want to know where that opinion has come from, partner drill from any martial arts are not a good measure

No, I dismissed grabbing someones wrist as unlikely, and stupid.

 

[jobo]

No, I dismissed grabbing someones wrist as unlikely, and stupid.

but if someone grabs my coat, grabbing their stationary wrist is both very likely and and not at all stupid, if it translates into an arm bar.

but we are still waiting for the answers to how you've assessed such things

 

[jobo]

Never once used the word impossible. I stated scenarios in which it works.

you said '' this will never work'' thats the same as impossible.

be clear , are you saying it will never work or not ?

 

[Alan Smithee]

you said '' this will never work'' thats the same as impossible.

be clear , are you saying it will never work or not ?

No I didn't. I wrote 99% won't work against someone the same physical strength as yourself.

 

[jobo]

No I didn't. I wrote 99% won't work against someone the same physical strength as yourself.

right so tell us about the 99 people you tried it on to come to this conclusion` and how did you assess their physical strength prior to the confrontation ?

 

[Alan Smithee]

right so tell us about the 99 people you tried it on to come to this conclusion` and how did you assess their physical strength prior to the confrontation ?

You can't know. That's the problem.. You'll just notice when those clockwise and counter clockwise rotations, aren't rotating...

 

[jobo]

You can't know. That's the problem.. You'll just notice when those clockwise and counter clockwise rotations, aren't rotating...

so after all this we have come down to YOU DONT KNOW if it will work or not as you have never tried it ?

thats a long way from your claims that you know it wont work 99% of the time

 

[Alan Smithee]

so after all this we have come down to YOU DONT KNOW if it will work or not as you have never tried it ?

thats a long way from your claims that you know it wont work 99% of the time

Wrong. You don't know in advance.

 

[Buka]

I have found that “he can’t, it can’t, highly unlikely, and it doesn’t work that way “ is often followed by “except for, in that case and but, that’s different.”

Of course I might have felt otherwise four years into things. Heck, I haven’t had to control a violent offender in a couple of months now. Maybe things have changed.