The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[drop bear]

Is that the distinction you draw - between TMA and sport? Just asking.

In this case specifically styles that don't compete vs styles that do.

Because for the discussion you will find MMA tends to draw from styles that have fighters in them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Which video have I dismissed?

And no. I am working objectively. I don't think BJJ is the best system for handling offenders. It just has the most evidence.

If you wanted to take a style discussion and add a bunch of tactical considerations then I would suggest folk wrestling. Because you fight to be on top and fight to stand up which is more applicable.


Otherwise there is a lot of videos that confirm bjj working in the street.

In multiple threads, you dismissed (pretty much ignored, in one thread) videos that showed types of attacks you said weren't valid - just wouldn't happen.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In this case specifically styles that don't compete vs styles that do.

Because for the discussion you will find MMA tends to draw from styles that have fighters in them.

Thanks. That'll help me avoid confusion. The terms don't have universal definitions, of course.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks. That'll help me avoid confusion. The terms don't have universal definitions, of course.

Using it specifically for this discussion because Jow Gar was throwing the term around.

 

[drop bear]

In multiple threads, you dismissed (pretty much ignored, in one thread) videos that showed types of attacks you said weren't valid - just wouldn't happen.

So multiple threads?

Look you are making the accusation you should back that up with some evidence rather than just start suggesting multiple threads.

Second time you pulled this stunt on this thread by the way.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So multiple threads?

Look you are making the accusation you should back that up with some evidence rather than just start suggesting multiple threads.

Second time you pulled this stunt on this thread by the way.

Nope. Can't really be bothered to search through threads looking for it. If you don't remember it, it's not that important.

 

[Martial D]

Is that the distinction you draw - between TMA and sport? Just asking.

Sport is when TMA gloves up, under some conditions that allow for winning or losing. Any TMA can be a sport under these conditions.

 

[dvcochran]

John Jones does both.
Anyway holly Holmes

Holmes could do about anything she wanted to in that fight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sport is when TMA gloves up, under some conditions that allow for winning or losing. Any TMA can be a sport under these conditions.

I like that distinction. It's pretty clean. So, when folks do that, it ceases to be "TMA" for the purpose of this discussion.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Trap the hands? Low percentage, probably eat a fist..better to clinch.

I don't know if this will help you with WC but my understanding of trapping the hands is to do it before your opponents arm is fully extended and that this is actually close range. I can't think of an situation where trapping a punch at the end of the punch is a good idea or functional.

If I want to trap my opponent's hands I would do it at the beginning of my opponents punch and not at the end. If I were to take WC that's where my trapping would begin. Anything outside of that 50% range would be longer strikes until I can get into range.Within that 50% range punches will not land as hard , I can now start jamming and striking and take advantage of my shorter ranged punches.

In the context of a 4 sided ring. Having my opponent pinned in the corner on the ropes would force my opponent to play my game. In the middle of the wring, he would be forcing me to play his game. So I have to change from close quarters to distance and mobility.

Also if I wanted to learn WC, I wouldn't spar with another WC practitioner unless he pretty much abandon's WC and turns into a brawler. My Jow Ga sparring partners did that a lot so me using my techniques against them was more like what I would be against in the street in terms of the types of strikes I had to deal with.

 

[JowGaWolf]

John Jones does both.
Anyway holly Holmes

good job finding that one. with Holly Holmes

 

[JowGaWolf]

I sometimes wonder if some of the narrow stance influence is later-life instructors.

That's a real possibility, We don't fight the same as we get older or injured. I've seen Wing Chun systems that use a wider stance that looks more like the common fighting stance that we see, so I'm always curious about the strict determination to ALWAYS keep a narrow stance.

I would like to know when the narrow stance came into play, who started it, and what was their physical condition, was it age or an injury.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Holmes could do about anything she wanted to in that fight.

yeah so much was wrong about that fight. Ronda's coach, the effort to get her to switch to boxing, the training. Ronda went in with an untested skill set and Holmes took advantage of that , rightfully so.

 

[drop bear]

Nope. Can't really be bothered to search through threads looking for it. If you don't remember it, it's not that important.

It is ironically common but also super hard to find because it is mostly a disruptive move rather than a finish move. So it will never be in a highlight reel.

 

[Hanzou]

I don't know if this will help you with WC but my understanding of trapping the hands is to do it before your opponents arm is fully extended and that this is actually close range. I can't think of an situation where trapping a punch at the end of the punch is a good idea or functional.

If I want to trap my opponent's hands I would do it at the beginning of my opponents punch and not at the end. If I were to take WC that's where my trapping would begin. Anything outside of that 50% range would be longer strikes until I can get into range.Within that 50% range punches will not land as hard , I can now start jamming and striking and take advantage of my shorter ranged punches.

In the context of a 4 sided ring. Having my opponent pinned in the corner on the ropes would force my opponent to play my game. In the middle of the wring, he would be forcing me to play his game. So I have to change from close quarters to distance and mobility.

Also if I wanted to learn WC, I wouldn't spar with another WC practitioner unless he pretty much abandon's WC and turns into a brawler. My Jow Ga sparring partners did that a lot so me using my techniques against them was more like what I would be against in the street in terms of the types of strikes I had to deal with.

Interesting fight theory. However, we have multiple examples of WC fighters being unable to apply that theory when strikes are raining down on them.

 

[Martial D]

I don't know if this will help you with WC but my understanding of trapping the hands is to do it before your opponents arm is fully extended and that this is actually close range. I can't think of an situation where trapping a punch at the end of the punch is a good idea or functional.

If I want to trap my opponent's hands I would do it at the beginning of my opponents punch and not at the end. If I were to take WC that's where my trapping would begin. Anything outside of that 50% range would be longer strikes until I can get into range.Within that 50% range punches will not land as hard , I can now start jamming and striking and take advantage of my shorter ranged punches.

In the context of a 4 sided ring. Having my opponent pinned in the corner on the ropes would force my opponent to play my game. In the middle of the wring, he would be forcing me to play his game. So I have to change from close quarters to distance and mobility.

Also if I wanted to learn WC, I wouldn't spar with another WC practitioner unless he pretty much abandon's WC and turns into a brawler. My Jow Ga sparring partners did that a lot so me using my techniques against them was more like what I would be against in the street in terms of the types of strikes I had to deal with.

Ya. It just doesn't work when the other guy knows how to fight. The only time hand trapping is worth even thinking about is on the ground, or if you are already clinching(and there are better options even there)

I feel like if you went and trained MMA for a month a lot of what you believe would change.

 

[Martial D]

I like that distinction. It's pretty clean. So, when folks do that, it ceases to be "TMA" for the purpose of this discussion.

I don't know that TMA and sport are mutually exclusive.

We have sport karate, tkd, judo. Even tomiki aikido has a sport version.

 

[drop bear]

Interesting fight theory. However, we have multiple examples of WC fighters being unable to apply that theory when strikes are raining down on them.

Lomenchenco does it. But he learned it from boxing.

That other obscure TMA that MMA draws from.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Interesting fight theory. However, we have multiple examples of WC fighters being unable to apply that theory when strikes are raining down on them.

Not sure what to say about that. To me this is basic. I don't think this would be difficult.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I feel like if you went and trained MMA for a month a lot of what you believe would change.

Agree! Even if one just has one golden glove boxing experience, he will understand how important it is to deal with left hook, right hook, left hook, right hook, … that most TMA people don't train how to deal with it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ya. It just doesn't work when the other guy knows how to fight. The only time hand trapping is worth even thinking about is on the ground, or if you are already clinching(and there are better options even there)

I feel like if you went and trained MMA for a month a lot of what you believe would change.

It wouldn't change anything. These are the same thing I use to coach my brother who is an amateur Muay Tai and MMA fighter. This type of stuff doesn't have an thing to do with TMA or MMA. It's my understanding of the mechanics of punching. If I don't understand this, then it would mpossible for me to be successful with my crazy Jow Ga techniques.