The Cultural Emsculation of the American Male

[Bigshadow]

I hear you, brother. Major issue of our time--right up there with, say, rape. Or the fact that most poor people in the country are women and children. Or the underrepresentation of women in government. Or the systematic sexual exploitation and enslavement of women throughout the world. Or dowry murders in Asia.

Are you flagellating yourself?

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm delighted that little girls are watching the Powerpuff Girls or whatnot, rather than being told again that if you want to do anything, you have to get a man to do it for you.

I agree with you. My point was that there are far more by comparison shows for children where the hero, the lead role, and smart/power position in the show is a female, with males being reduced to being side kicks or evil opponents. There is very little for boys to draw on nowadays so I see young boys starting to idolize girls as role models.

I don't think any of us males are saying that you have to get a man to do it for you. Did we? I certainly didn't. I am all about empowering self. Just ask my wife!

 

[Andrew Green]

That's it, let's bring back the Bundy Organization!

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I agree with you. My point was that there are far more by comparison shows for children where the hero, the lead role, and smart/power position in the show is a female, with males being reduced to being side kicks or evil opponents. There is very little for boys to draw on nowadays so I see young boys starting to idolize girls as role models.

I don't think any of us males are saying that you have to get a man to do it for you. Did we? I certainly didn't. I am all about empowering self. Just ask my wife!

Really? Where is this overwhelming excess of strong female roles?

And Lifetime? Please. You can always go watch Spike. (Which I love.)

 

[arnisador]

That's it, let's bring back the Bundy Organization!

I actually own a NO MA'AM shirt, sold by E.E. Bell (an extra on the show who had some made). What can I say--I liked the show!

 

[Andrew Green]

Name some "strong (read smart, respectworthy, strong) male" role models in the media. Then look at all the "kick ***" female roles, or "smart wife" "stupid husband" roles...

Granted I don't watch much tv... but I am at a loss here... I can't think of ANY...

Help? Anyone?

 

[Cryozombie]

Vic Mackie.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, let's see. Men control the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court, the judiciary, every State government, all the major corporations, the police and the FBI, nearly every educational institution, the media, the churches, the publishing industry, and pretty much everything else--but they're oppressed? Men commit the considerable majority of the assaults, rapes, sexual harassment, etc., but they're the imperiled ones?

When a women's organization appears that resembles, say, the Promise Keepers, or the Catholic Church, or the Republican Party, I may rethink the whole emasculation bit.

But until then, sorry, don't feel emasculated. Feel the beginnings of liberation from a lot of bad craziness.

 

[Andrew Green]

Look at tv targeting kids and sitcoms. In "the real world" maybe not, but that is not what kids see and this thread was mainly about boys and what society tells them.

 

[Marginal]

I agree with you. My point was that there are far more by comparison shows for children where the hero, the lead role, and smart/power position in the show is a female, with males being reduced to being side kicks or evil opponents. There is very little for boys to draw on nowadays so I see young boys starting to idolize girls as role models.

What children's shows are you watching? Other than Power Puff Girls Kim Possible and She Spies, there aren't a whole lot of kid's shows that featue females in the leading/hero role.

Love to hear you analyize Jackie Chan's Adventures though.

I've heard this argument applied to the Drew Carey show as well, but it does beg the question, if people see a loser on TV, do they then aspire to be that loser? Why?

 

[Bigshadow]

Really? Where is this overwhelming excess of strong female roles?

Pick just about any show on TV now. Especially the children's channels. Have you watched them? I have. I see what they are showing. There is an overwhelming excess of females in the lead roles most movies, and shows today. Less and less of them are men.

And Lifetime? Please. You can always go watch Spike. (Which I love.)

Well at least Spike doesn't bash women. The opposite cannot be said about Lifetime. BTW, IMHO Spike sucks! It is choc full of useless mind numbing fodder as well. There certainly is not an overwhelming source of male role models on there either. There are males, but that it about it... Very few of the shows on there is worth watching. I will stick to Discovery Science.

 

[Bigshadow]

and pretty much everything else--but they're oppressed? Men commit the considerable majority of the assaults, rapes, sexual harassment, etc., but they're the imperiled ones?

We are not talking about opression. What we are talking about is social engineering. It isn't your generation that is in danger and you don't have to be threatened. It is future generations that may suffer. I don't worry about my generation. It is too late for that. I worry for my son's and his children. Our actions today is what will determine their future tomorrow.

But until then, sorry, don't feel emasculated. Feel the beginnings of liberation from a lot of bad craziness.

That is fine. I don't feel emasculated either. But that wasn't the point of the discussion. I agree.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Having been involved in the mythopoetic "Mens Movement" for some time, I would refer interested readers to two essential readings on the subject, over quoted, poorly represented and understood, and yet painfully insightful regarding the anti-masculine zeitgeist woven through the cultural fabric. In the same way that anti-intellectualism is so common and rampant that it appears to be normal, anti-masculine sentiment has become embedded in the societal fabric in such a way as to be insidious.

"Iron John", by Robert Bly, and "Fire in the Belly", by Sam Keen. Not one of them is pro-masculine development at the cost of progress in feminist evolution. Not one is mysoginistic (sp?), touting the glories of masculinity in society at the expense of continuing work towards the expansion and equalization of the presence of women. Rather, they stress that men must find a deep internal contact with what is good about masculine identity, so that responsible contributions of masculnie energy in life can be played out in a way that is hobnorable, and that women and children can trust. (think about that...how many men that YOU know would you trust with your daughters?)

Men, living without a code of honor and a functional understanding of what it means to comport oneself as a masculine entity in balanced relationships, become all that is heinous about the male half of the species -- rapists, child molesters, murderers, bride burners, etc. The task of the modern male is to find the mission within, and dedicate themselves to living their commitments, daily.

Men have been relegated to either goofs or criminals (Al Bundy or Ted Bundy), with little room for the enlightened male to make contributions, without representing a feminized male. Culturally, the physiologically driven masculine responses to stress or challenge have been regulated to the realm of criminal acts. Only by acting like good little boys who Mommy would approve of are men allowed to be remotely considered as "socially adept", even when many of the social constraints require men to abandon the living of masculine traits to adopt the mannrisms of a SNAG: Sensitive New Age Guy.

Wake up, guys. Philosophers in the womens movement are defining what the optimum social and personality traits are for a male. And, aside from having been traumatized by the despicable half of our species, what makes them an authority on what it means to live life as a man?

My rant is now over:

Out.

D.

 

[AnimEdge]

Me and my Girlfriend has had a few discussions about the Boys Suck t-shirt, she finds them quite funny and i generaly just generaly role my eyes and come back about how much trouble i would get for having a "Girls suck so throw rocks at them" shirt compaired to her shirt, her main come back is the creator of that shirt is a guy.

And yes there are women "bashing" shirts but the majority of them seam to be sexual inuendos

A good quote about the tv is from "Will and Grace" my GF watchs it and it comes after a show i watch and on one they where looking through channels saying "Fat man skinny wife" over and over again with a few "Dumb man skinny wife" shows, and when i flip through tv thats generaly what i find as well, psssh i have allready givin up tv now i only watch Comedy Central and uh, PBS at 3am, another 'Girl Power' channel i would like to add is all 3 Disney Channels, its harder to find a male lead show eather animated or not than it is a female lead, CN is a bit more even (Few things to watch at night, but man Lilo and Stich is greatness) But i dont find them to be very "Empowering" nor male bashing

And being just out of HS '04 w007, i dont remeber much male bashing there eaither, when i wasnt alseep the majority of stuff i over heard from girls was who slept with who at what club and who over drank, sad i think, well i do remeber young male bashing, over hearing on about how highschool boys are imachure(sp) and the ones to be with are the 21+ (heard this from a lot of 15-17 year olds) in which im sure any 21+ year old who will date a 16 year old is a true keeper.

I never believed in ADD and is till dont, i think its a salution no one asked for but everyone uses, great example is from South Park where a Doctors ADD test was reading from a 700+ book and asking what someone said on page 249, of course no one remebered thus they must have ADD and be drugged, isnt there a movie made about this? It was a teen movie and i remeber its theme song was "Flagpole Sitta" by Harvy Danger, what was it called, where kids who where acting up had like surgerys and became brainwashed and suddenly became perfect

all in all i myself dont feel Emsculated but i do notice the "Women Movement" and the generaly dumbing down of men in the media, any sitcom now a days has the generic theme, overweight husband gets into some "crazy antics" and the thin hot wife scolds him and lectures on what a bad father he his and is shown as the "good guy(girl)":

lets get a list going:
Fox:
Simpsons
ABC:
According to Jim
Complete Savages(maybe)
George Lopez
My Wife and Kids(Maybe but non fat husband)
Rodney
CBS:
Everyone loves Raymond
King of Queens
Two and a Half Men
Yes, Dear
NBC:
Joey(Maybe?)
UPN (A bit diffrent since they are like, you know)
All UPN shows exept: WWE and uh Star Trek, but probly them too
Same show diffrent People

 

[Bigshadow]

The task of the modern male is to find the mission within, and dedicate themselves to living their commitments, daily.

Of course let's not forget... Men are disposable. Of course this is not new to the 20th or 21st century, it is something that has been sewn into the fabric of human society for a very long time.

Wake up, guys. Philosophers in the womens movement are defining what the optimum social and personality traits are for a male. And, aside from having been traumatized by the despicable half of our species, what makes them an authority on what it means to live life as a man?

Unfortunately, I am sure many men are not willing to stick their neck out. Or they just don't want to bother with it. Heck, I never thought I would see this many men actually see what I am talking about. That in itself is a surprise. I thought too many were asleep.

 

[Bigshadow]

What children's shows are you watching? Other than Power Puff Girls Kim Possible and She Spies, there aren't a whole lot of kid's shows that featue females in the leading/hero role.

Love to hear you analyize Jackie Chan's Adventures though.

All those shows have females in lead roles, Power Puff Girls (female heros), Kim Possible and She Spies (self explainatory). Jacky Chan's Adventures. Well the real star is the little girl. She is the one who is actually having the adventures. I have seen it many times. Oh and she is tough and is always outsmarting the big male oafs that come after her.

I've heard this argument applied to the Drew Carey show as well, but it does beg the question, if people see a loser on TV, do they then aspire to be that loser? Why?

It isn't the loser that is aspired to, often times it isn't about aspiring to, it is about what is expected of men and of women. Many people are hugely impressioned by media. This is where public opinion is created. The lemming watch/feed and then things are set in motion. The shows are not just about role models but expected social behavior. It is often presented as reality, people identify with that, even though it is an illusion of reality. It is social engineering at it's finest.

 

[TonyM.]

Men are doing this. We control almost everything exept in many cases our wives pursestrings. Since women call the shots on many major purchases, malebashing is an effective marketing tool.

 

[modarnis]

>>every State government, all the major corporations, the police and the FBI, nearly every educational institution, the media, the churches, the publishing industry, and pretty much everything else--but they're oppressed? >>

So there are no female police chiefs, CEO's, pastors, university administrators, corporate ceos/cfo, governors, or publishers in the U.S. ? That university you teach at must have some special filter on its lexis/nexis searches if thatose are the facts you come up with

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. Please give the long list of governmental bureaus, assemblys, corporations, media conglomerates, etc. controlled by women. It shouldn't take long. And while you're at it, please give the long list of women-controlled organizations that got nailed, the way Mitsubishi Corp. did, for obvious and open misogyny.

2. Let me see if I've got this--the endless stream of t-shirts, jokes, "Hustler," pictures, t-shirt contests, which take women as their objects are OK, because they may be demeaning and even violence-suggesting, but at least the insults are based on sex? That's actually the argument?

3. OK, so women Are Now and Have Always Been the Power behind the Throne. Why, Behind Every Successful Man There Is A Good Woman. Never heard that before. Two steps behind and to the right, no doubt? With or without burkah?

4. Uh, you guys are actually hot and bothered because of the Powder Puff Girls? Scary Spice is oppressing thee, brothers? Thank Demeter that nobody thought to mention "Kill Bill."

5. "Mythopoetic," men's movement. Exactly right. Bly used to show up in Boulder, back in the 70s, and throw these neo-Jungian hand grenades, and leave. Yes, indeed a movie. It's called, "The Stepford Wives."

6. Not gettin' the emsculation. What are y'all so afraid of? Ooooh--I know, Equal Opportunity Has Done Reared Its Ugly Head. As a friend once said, when I DID get some crap--from guys, oddly enough--and compared it to women's getting screamed at on the street by guys yelling, "SHOW US YOUR ****!", well, "Now you know how it feels." Buck up, me buckos.

7. Neil Hertz. "Medusa's Head: Male Hysteria Under Political Pressure." Also try Charlotte Perkins Gilman, "Herland," ("But where are all the men?" "Uh, well, there was this avalanche? and then all the boys got the flu...?") and "James Tiptree, "Houston, Houston, Do You Read?"

8. Incidentally, Buffy can kick all y'all's collective asses. I'm wit' her.

 

[Marginal]

All those shows have females in lead roles, Power Puff Girls (female heros), Kim Possible and She Spies (self explainatory).

Um yes, that was kind of my point. (I mentioned them as exceptions to the more typical dynamic I see in kid's shows like Teen Titans which do not have a female version of Robin barking orders.)

Jacky Chan Adventures almost manages to pull off the sterotypical, seemingly manditory sassy female sidekick, but it's foiled by the fact that Jacky is a capable guy. (Compared to the older dynamic like in Darkwing duck where the purported hero is an incompetant boob.) Even in Darkwing Duck's case, it's more of an inversion of the dynamic that Batman set fourth rather than social engineering. "What? Robin, my young male companion in my extended bacherlorhood, you've been tied up again, old chum?"

It isn't the loser that is aspired to, often times it isn't about aspiring to, it is about what is expected of men and of women. Many people are hugely impressioned by media. This is where public opinion is created. The lemming watch/feed and then things are set in motion. The shows are not just about role models but expected social behavior. It is often presented as reality, people identify with that, even though it is an illusion of reality. It is social engineering at it's finest.

That only works if you aspire to be a fat stupid loser.