Thats alot of pepper spray.

[Makalakumu]

What? I dont have a permission slip. Crap does this mean my paycheck wont be coming next friday?

Look at the degree posted on your wall (assuming you have one). It's a permission slip.

 

[elder999]

So the principles of All men should be treated equal regardless of race color or creed is on par in your mind with I want my tuition to go down and I refuse to transfer to a community college or a cheaper school to get the same education?

Intersting that you omitted the part of my quote where I basically said that the police would be wrong to do that to the KKK.

In a free society such as ours, the content of speech does not negate it's stautes as free speech.

In a free society such as ours, the status of the assembled does not negate their right to free assembly.

In a free society such as ours, the downright absurdity of a grievance against the govenment does not negate the right to seek redress against that grievance from the government.

More to the point: I have children just a little older than those college kids. Agree with them or not, I support their right to protest-whatever, right up to and including the imprisonment of aliens at Area 51. I'd say that they could have conducted themselves better-but the whole sitting there with arms linked thing is your basic "non-violent resistance 101," and goes all the way back to Gandhi.

The cops-the only so-called "professionals" on the scene could have done better as well, and supporting their actions, even to say "they really had no choice" misses the point I've been trying to make, which goes back to the beginning of this thread and what you've posted here.

What those kids were protesting, and who they were in no way excuses the police, nor should it. You want to make a procedural case of it? Fine. You say the cops had no choice? Good. You say that's what the kids wanted and intended in the first place? You're almost certainly right.

You say it's okay because it's just a bunch of smelly spoiled college students who could use a bath and a job? Well, let's commence with the pogroms now, because I just don't have the patience anymore: I've got my food stockpiled,my guns are all clean and my ammo locker is currently full......as the Great Communicator said when faced with a similar situation as governor:

"If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with. No more appeasement."

Ronald Reagan, May, 1969, when asked about demonstrations at Berkley, just hours before he ordered the National Guard to put the demonstration down, with an action that wounded 51 and killed 1.(And 111 cops injured as well)

 

[ballen0351]

Look at the degree posted on your wall (assuming you have one). It's a permission slip.

Haa Only thing hanging on my walls are an Honorable Discharge from the United States Marine Corps pictures of my family, and a Cross with my Lord and Savior on it.

 

[Makalakumu]

The corporation took the most.

But again, has nada to do with OCD.

Bob, get real. You have plenty of paper, especially if you incorporated.

This has everything to do with OCD. If the students are protesting the cost of school, it's because of the government/bank partnership.

Learn more about this here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

OWS are not the heros. They are a disorganized movement, pulling in multiple directions, more than half of which are impractical at best and ludicrous at worst.


This is why there was a police action.

Katehi said students have a right to protest peacefully, but the university bans camping on campus because of safety and health concerns.
Occupy UC Davis protesters have ignored the camping ban. The encampment went back up Monday night, and campus officials said it included as many as 80 tents Wednesday.

(source)

The students are violating campus safety rules.

The police are charged with ensuring safety.

Why are they protesting now?

UCLA students gathered Monday night in Westwood to protest tuition increases and the recent pepper-spraying of students by police at UC Davis. Sixty students rebuilt the Occupy encampment after it was shut down last Friday by police in riot gear, who arrested 14 people that day.
The students want to show their solidarity with Occupy UC movements across the state. UCLA is one of four UC campuses to protest.

(source)

Protesting tuition increases, and the pepper spraying of the students who were (say it with me) guilty of ignoring the lawful orders of law enforcement officers who were attempting to peacefully disperse an sit in. Said students were given ample opportunity to move before they began resisting arrest which resulted in their spraying.

No bankers, no bail outs, no brokers.

Just "college costs too much".

 

[ballen0351]

Intersting that you omitted the part of my quote where I basically said that the police would be wrong to do that to the KKK.

In a free society such as ours, the content of speech does not negate it's stautes as free speech.

In a free society such as ours, the status of the assembled does not negate their right to free assembly.

In a free society such as ours, the downright absurdity of a grievance against the govenment does not negate the right to seek redress against that grievance from the government.

I agree with you they have the right to protest anyhting they want. They can protest the high price of pop tarts if they want. My comment was there grievance is no where near the same level of the civil rights movment and for you to keep posting pictures of the civil rights movment in my opinion lowers the struggles they went thru.

More to the point: I have children just a little older than those college kids. Agree with them or not, I support their right to protest-whatever, right up to and including the imprisonment of aliens at Area 51. I'd say that they could have conducted themselves better-but the whole sitting there with arms linked thing is your basic "non-violent resistance 101," and goes all the way back to Gandhi.

I agree again with that statement however your rights are no greater then mine and do not trump my rights. Your right to be you is no greater then my right to be freeew from you. When you start to disturb the peace of others and block others rights to free movement you are wrong and need to back off to one side or the other.

The cops-the only so-called "professionals" on the scene could have done better as well, and supporting their actions, even to say "they really had no choice" misses the point I've been trying to make, which goes back to the beginning of this thread and what you've posted here.

And how would you do it. You play police officer. The order comes down to clear the side walk. You ask, then order, then make the threat of arrest to get kids to move and they refuse. What would you do? Walk away? say oh well never mind?

What those kids were protesting, and who they were in no way excuses the police, nor should it. You want to make a procedural case of it? Fine. You say the cops had no choice? Good. You say that's what the kids wanted and intended in the first place? You're almost certainly right.

You say it's okay because it's just a bunch of smelly spoiled college students who could use a bath and a job? Well, let's commence with the pogroms now, because I just don't have the patience anymore: I've got my food stockpiled,my guns are all clean and my ammo locker is currently full......as the Great Communicator said when faced with a similar situation as governor:

[/SIZE]

I never said it was because they were smelly kids is why I agreed with the action of the police. I said they violated the LAW. If you disagree with the LAW take it up with the LAW MAKERS or the board of directors of the college. The officer did not make the LAW and merely swore to uphold the LAW. If the LAW is wrong file a suit and have it challenged in court and have the bad LAW overturned. Its the legal way things are done in this country. Thats why we have Checks and balances written into our Constitution.

 

[Makalakumu]

Haa Only thing hanging on my walls are an Honorable Discharge from the United States Marine Corps pictures of my family, and a Cross with my Lord and Savior on it.

Not impressed. A person is judged by their actions, not by their symbols.

 

[Makalakumu]

No bankers, no bail outs, no brokers.

Just "college costs too much".

It costs too much because of the government and the banks. See my above post.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bob, get real. You have plenty of paper, especially if you incorporated.

This has everything to do with OCD. If the students are protesting the cost of school, it's because of the government/bank partnership.

John.
I started this forum. -0- government paperwork.
Started 10 in fact. total gov. paper? -0-.
Launched an programming biz.
A pc repair company.
A landscaping biz.
A consulting biz.
A photography biz.
An Amway biz.
A publishing biz.
A few others I can't recall.
Total Government Paperwork?
- Z E R O -
Guess I forgot to ask my owners huh?

 

[shesulsa]

I love how it never enters into your mind that the police should join the protesters. The moment this happens, we'll reach a turning point in this nation. Until then, we'll march toward tyranny.

I know I made this suggestion - if not on MT, then elsewhere. They are, after all, part of the 99%. The fellas up here voluntarily took a two- and three-year pay freeze to avoid layoffs. Damned if they weren't cut anyway. I don't see the people responsible for making the poor decisions rolling downward causing the upheaval in these people's lives getting laid off or taking pay cuts - in fact, they are taking raises and getting promoted.

Am I *really* the only one who sees something wrong here?

 

[ballen0351]

Not impressed. A person is judged by their actions, not by their symbols.

Not impressed by who? Me I could careless I have zero interest in impressing anyone. Them? They earned my respect the day they signed on the line and strapped on the boots

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I know I made this suggestion - if not on MT, then elsewhere. They are, after all, part of the 99%. The fellas up here voluntarily took a two- and three-year pay freeze to avoid layoffs. Damned if they weren't cut anyway. I don't see the people responsible for making the poor decisions rolling downward causing the upheaval in these people's lives getting laid off or taking pay cuts - in fact, they are taking raises and getting promoted.

Am I *really* the only one who sees something wrong here?

No, you're not. In fact, a number of us have said there's a problem.

We're just disagreeing on which is better to get things fixed: to bang on bongos and poop on cop cars, or get involved in the political system, vote etc.

I'm taking B here.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I have to call my owner and check in and make sure I said the right thing. Damn this lack of freedom.

 

[elder999]

I never said it was because they were smelly kids is why I agreed with the action of the police..

Your husband wrong. Point balnk. period.


Im not getting arrested for my right to sit my lazy butt on a side walk. If.

I dont think you can compare what Ghandi did with a bunch of spoiled rich kids going to a school that costs over 78K a year (per the schools own website)

The Police Officers are on the side of the rest of the millions of people trying to live their lives and not be bothered by these freeloading campers, crapping and pissing in the streets, blocking the streets while they try to go to work to make a living to support families. They are on the side of the small businesses trying to stay open yet the sidewalks in front of the shops are blocked by these so called protesters. The police are on the side of the other 1000's of kids going to UC Davis trying to get an education and live their lives. The police are on the side of my family that wants to go downtown here where we live and enjoy some ice cream by the water front on this unseasonably warm nov day and not be bothered by people cussing yelling playing loud drums begging for money and then screaming when you dont give them any (and we have a small group of only about 15 protesters).

What I dont do is sit on my butt and cry about what I dont have. What I dont do is demand Govt take from others that have to give to me since I dont. AND most importantly I VOTE. If you dont then you have no right to cry about anything.

,

 

[ballen0351]

,

Yes they are lazy kids sitting on their butts doing nothing I dont disagree with that but no where did I say thats why they got sprayed. In My opinion they are P.O.S but thats not a crime and they can cry until the cows come home thats not why they were sprayed.

 

[elder999]

Yes they are lazy kids sitting on their butts doing nothing I dont disagree with that but no where did I say thats why they got sprayed.

In the first place, how do you know they're lazy kids sitting on their butts doing nothing?

This one is a grad student:

[yt]9C_A2bHvKWY[/yt]
Secondly, making the statement does imply some sort of correlation-it really shouldn't matter if they're lazy or not, if the police actions were correct. To make the statement implies that it supports the police action.

In My opinion they are P.O.S but thats not a crime and they can cry until the cows come home thats not why they were sprayed.

Well, here's the raw footage:

[yt]K8Uj1cV97XQ[/yt]

Based on the interactions beforehand, I'd say the police pepper sprayed them because they wanted to. Based on what took place after the spraying, I'd have to say that the spraying made no difference-the cops could have broken up that feeble "human chain" at any time, with a minimum of pain compliance technique, and put the cuffs on those kids-who, as Bill Mattocks has pointed out, wanted to be arrested, and weren't going to physically resist the police beyond the passive resistance they were already displaying. There were enough cops there to do this physically without harming anyone, if they were properly trained.

Hell, I've never worked in law-enforcement, but I've trained lots of people-cops and otherwise-in getting a sitting person to comply-and that's what took place here. It isn't even like the pepper spray made them move or unlink their arms or anything.

The whole thing is just stupid-and so is saying it was the right thing to do.

 

[granfire]

Yes they are lazy kids sitting on their butts doing nothing I dont disagree with that but no where did I say thats why they got sprayed. In My opinion they are P.O.S but thats not a crime and they can cry until the cows come home thats not why they were sprayed.

I think you are buying into the "news" rhetoric.

the thing is, all those people have been told they must go to college to amount to something.
now they are in college and have the prospect of being somebody: up to their eyeballs in dept for the rest of their lives.

And no, we all do need those lazy students at some point in our lives:
be it as the engineer who designs that new bridge in place of the old one that was build during the last depression, or the doctors that treat out various ailments.

Even the teachers we all love to hate, or the nurses.
I am sure the list goes on, and I am sure by now a lot of those people would have rather learned a good trade instead of wasting their time in college.


but generally speaking, I do think it is time for everybody to take a deep breath and maybe look at the issue from a less than personal angle.

it is easy to pad a soldier on the shoulder to thank him/her for the service, quiet another to put on those fatigues and do the job yourself.
The protesters are no different.
They sit in the camps, on the sidewalk in the stream of pepper spray, so you don't have to.

no, they don't all know why, and not all of them actually care. Some of them even use it as excuse to behave badly.
but that is the deal when you deal with that: human beings.

it's a matter of 'I am madder than hell and I am not gonna take it anymore'

The system is broken and it won't be fixed by voting and it won't happen from the top down.

you know the old saying: Don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining.

We have taken that for far too long. And the fact that the movement has spread not only across the nation but has gone international ought to tell you something!

yes, Wall Street did that, all of that, globally.

No, Wall Street probably has little to do with the rising tuition in cali. Not directly anyhow.
But seriously!
When middle aged people get depressed over the outlook of the economy and expect 2 decades of recession, how are young people supposed to feel?

But again, this is not OWS NYC, this is UC Davis.
I am assuming the occupied area is what shows up when you look at the satellite image googling for UC Davis: a wide open space, I am sure the handful people camping there did not bother much but the esthetic feelings of the administrator.


alas, it is pointless to speculate. The situation has escalated. What was a rather small problem has now gone national and 'viral' and grown locally.
It would have probably been easier and served the purpose better to just tear the tents down....
again, water under the bridge.

The results were obviously not the desired ones.

 

[billc]

There you go again elder showing democrats beating up minoritites. I really can't see how anyone can honestly compare the OWS silly people to the civil rights movement. What a stretch.

 

[elder999]

There you go again elder showing democrats beating up minoritites. I really can't see how anyone can honestly compare the OWS silly people to the civil rights movement. What a stretch.

As I said, the man on the ground in the first picture is now a Democrat congressman.

As in, one of the minorities being beaten up......

As in, the issue not being party but race.......


And, as I said, the principle is the same-it doesn't matter what they're protesting, or what their viewpoint is, or who they are.

Hell, ballen has posted that he's had to protect the Phelps family's "God hates" church at their "protests." I know the cops have had to protect the KKK elsewhere. Why is that so hard to understand? And, as Bill said, the kids wanted to be arrested-the police didn't need to pepper spray them at all, all they had to do was what they did after they pepper sprayed........

 

[billc]

If the UC silly kids want to complain about tuition then they need to stop government backed student loans. The government student loan program has allowed Universities to jack up their prices many times where they should be. Whenever the government increases student loans, "Big Education" jacks up their tuition and fees to match the hike and then they add a little more. The UC kids should be fighting to stop government backed student loans and they should go after the colleges that have more than enough money to support providing financial aid to students without going to the tax payers. The endowments to the biggest universities are huge. They are the ones who need to fix the education problem, not government.

Another picture of Democrats with police dogs attacking minorities. Elder, do you dislike democrats or something, you should stop showing how they behaved toward minorities.

 

[ballen0351]

In the first place, how do you know they're lazy kids sitting on their butts doing nothing?

well they are in school to learn yet they were not in class they were sitting on their well BUTTS. So not going to class = lazy sitting on butts = sitting on butts. Lazy kids sitting on butts its really simple actually.

Secondly, making the statement does imply some sort of correlation-it really shouldn't matter if they're lazy or not, if the police actions were correct. To make the statement implies that it supports the police action.

Wrong I said several times they were only sprayed for braking the law and it has nothing to do with them being smelly or lazy. You choose to see what u want thats not my problem thats yours.

Based on the interactions beforehand, I'd say the police pepper sprayed them because they wanted to. Based on what took place after the spraying, I'd have to say that the spraying made no difference-the cops could have broken up that feeble "human chain" at any time, with a minimum of pain compliance technique, and put the cuffs on those kids-who, as Bill Mattocks has pointed out, wanted to be arrested, and weren't going to physically resist the police beyond the passive resistance they were already displaying. There were enough cops there to do this physically without harming anyone, if they were properly trained.

so now you would have rather seen the cops using physical force and not OC spray? OC spray has very very small chance of causing injuries. Physical force well has much greater chance of causing injuries.

Hell, I've never worked in law-enforcement, but I've trained lots of people-cops and otherwise-in getting a sitting person to comply-and that's what took place here. It isn't even like the pepper spray made them move or unlink their arms or anything.

So you have no idea what your talking about then. You have zero idea about crowd control methods, zero idea about police tactics, zero idea about that departments Use of force policy. So basiclly you have zero idea what your talking about yet insist they were wrong

The whole thing is just stupid-and so is saying it was the right thing to do.

It is stupid. The kids should have been in class learning. They cry about how much they pay to go to that school and then dont even go to class they camp out and sit on sidewalks.