Thats alot of pepper spray.

[jron]

Brilliant, no lawsuits there....

 

[Sukerkin]

It is usually considered poor form amongst the Mentors and Moderators to 'action' threads in which they have been an active participant but, please, come along ladies and gentlemen, try to cleave to the topic of the OP. It should be recalled that threads in the Study, as a 'price' for the somewhat looser standards of conduct, are expected to stay much more strictly focussed on the first post that started them.

The points being made of late are not invalid but they belong in a thread of their own perhaps?

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Mentor

 

[Carol]

Yes. A bunch of unruly malcontents, refusing to obey the lawful order of the uniformed force entrusted with maintaining public peace and order, who were forced to use the only means at their disposal of enforcing that lawful authority.

Seem to recall something like that occuring in Boston, back in 1770.......

And even today you can find people from Mass. who dismiss Crispus Attucks as little more than "a slave from Framingham who got shot."

 

[Sukerkin]

No, not in this thread. Maybe another thread that I'm not following? Thank you.

Crush, I think that what I said in post#24, referencing Elder's post#19 was tied to the civil liberties issues that I considered important. It's not at all relevant to the 'issues' (or lack of them) prompting the OWS nor the specifics of the complaints of the students sprayed by the long-arm-of-the-law at the university that is the subject of this thread - it is a general point regarding the exercise of effective protest rather than a little supine bleating and then going home because the authorities say you must.

 

[Big Don]

Correct me if I am wrong here Tez.

The Nazi held portion of Europe was referred to as "Occupied".
The Allied forces (which included British troops) were referred to as "Liberators".
The B-24 bomber was called Liberator.

So, for an 'below the belt' remark, I'm sorry, but I'm missing where that's fitting.

But historically, the bad guys occupy, the good guys liberate.

I wouldn't expect the OWS movement to get it, as they use a large amount of Soviet phrasing in the comments.


But I support the liberation of the occupied territory in the US, with its return to use by all of the people, not just protester tent cities of socialistic squaller and 'equality'. By peaceful means as much as possible, of course.

Remember, Occupation is EVIL when done by Israel or the US...

 

[Makalakumu]

The corporate presstitutes really want people to believe that all of the OWS movements are disconnected, and its true, they don't agree on everything. However, everyone that I've talked to at the protest understands that the financial elite has taken over and needs to be dealt with. Bob mentioned wanting to just live his life and do his business and I think under normal circumstances, that's a realistic expectation. This isn't a normal situation anymore. Not when BoA moves 75 trillion in bad bets to be secured by the citizenry. That threatens everyone's economic security. Sorry if you can't buy a sandwich, but you need to hear this in exactly the same way you need to hear that your roof is on fire. The difference is that here we see a crisis in slow motion.

My experience at OWS Honolulu has been positive. I had the chance to talk about the issues and clarify them and I didn't have to get arrested. I support the people who choose that route as long as they don't hurt anyone. The one and only time I've ever been arrested was at a protest.

And the cops were on the wrong side there too. For me it all comes back to that initial photo of the stormtrooper pepper spraying those kids while casually strolling by. I want to write a musical that includes a scene where that guy flips back his face shield and

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Big Don]

Leave you alone? Nope. I'm going to continually point out who the police are protecting

The law abiding? Those bastards!

and keep asking them to take off their stormtrooper outfits and stop.

Godwin's law! Calling American police officers stormtroopers shows a profound lack of any sense of history

Why? Because it's the right thing to do. I'm actually protecting your property and assets by doing this. And like I said, we're beyond the time and place where cops can claim ignorance. The banks are running the show and stealing any pot of money they can get their hands on. If you keep protecting the criminals, you deserve it.

hahhaha

Obama, the Democrats and Republicans are all part of the same beast. They won't help you. OWS strikes at the root of the Hydra when it focuses on the corporations, banks, and military industrial complex.

What really pisses me off about these cops is that they'll take "donations" from the banks and then go out and do their dirty work. Unbelievable. If you are one of these guys who took the silver and are standing there pepper spraying the people who are looking out for your best interest, you're no better then a henchman for a big mobster, IMO.

 

[Makalakumu]

He breaks out into song about American liberty. The scene ends with the cop stripped naked and gleefully waterboarded while Uncle Sam and Daddy Warbucks insert the cops nightstick into his rectum.

Montey Python with a crass American twist.

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[crushing]

Elder made the post I would have done - well said good sir.

For it does indeed boil down to the fact that you are not being even the tiniest bit outraged that the law enforcement agencies of your country will be used to suppress dissent, no matter how peaceful.

They blocked the pavement - ooh how evil and anarchistic of them. They didn't move when the police officers ordered them to - well that is kind of the point of civil disobedient protest.

I can't really say it is the officers fault, they were doing what they were asked and, as yet, what was being asked of them was not going to end up with herding people onto cattle trucks. But there does come a point, well defined by a certain set of famous trials, that following orders is not a sufficient excuse. Now that point is so far over the horizon yet that it is almost comical to have to make it but creeping erosion of attitudes is what leads to such ends if you are not vigilant as individuals.

The right to block a passageway? There was no issue with people gathering and speaking their minds. The problem was the blockade of a pathway. The police did nothing with the gauntlet of students that lined the sides of the pathway, only those tbat blocked access. I would expect the same treatment for a gang of people that block access to a clinic and refused to move.

 

[Sukerkin]

Was it really blocked, Crush? From what I understood they were 'in the way' but not obstructing access? Details are muddy at present for me on that one it seems.

 

[ballen0351]

Was it really blocked, Crush? From what I understood they were 'in the way' but not obstructing access? Details are muddy at present for me on that one it seems.

well they are lined up 2 deep across the sidewalk. Linked arms and refusing tio move. Looks blocked to me.

 

[elder999]

Seems to me there was a time in 1965 when a few people were "blocking the way" down in Selma. One of them became a Congressman....

The beaten man on the ground here is Congressman John Lewis, D, from Georgia.
Guess he should have gotten out of the way...

 

[Josh Oakley]

Yes. A bunch of unruly malcontents, refusing to obey the lawful order of the uniformed force entrusted with maintaining public peace and order, who were forced to use the only means at their disposal of enforcing that lawful authority.

Seem to recall something like that occuring in Boston, back in 1770.......

View attachment 15735

This is not really the best comparison. Pepper spray and paintball guns filled with rubber balls is hardly comparable to muskets and bayonets. UC Davis is hardly Kent State. And in comparison, the UC Davis cops did a much better than either example.

 

[Makalakumu]

The law abiding? Those bastards! Godwin's law! Calling American police officers stormtroopers shows a profound lack of any sense of historyhahhaha

Big Don can be the cop in my musical and we'll cast Rush Limbaugh as Daddy Warbucks.

"I'm proud to be an American cuz at least I know I'm free..."

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[crushing]

Was it really blocked, Crush? From what I understood they were 'in the way' but not obstructing access? Details are muddy at present for me on that one it seems.

Now back to my question. Are you are saying "being in the way" is a civil liberty?

 

[Big Don]

Seems to me there was a time in 1965 when a few people were "blocking the way" down in Selma. One of them became a Congressman....

The beaten man on the ground here is Congressman John Lewis, D, from Georgia.
Guess he should have gotten out of the way...

Comparing the current a holes to those in the civil rights protests of the 60's is beneath you, Jeff. I had thought better of you.

 

[crushing]

Seems to me there was a time in 1965 when a few people were "blocking the way" down in Selma. One of them became a Congressman....

The beaten man on the ground here is Congressman John Lewis, D, from Georgia.
Guess he should have gotten out of the way...

Did he ever get his student loans forgiven?

 

[Josh Oakley]

Seems to me there was a time in 1965 when a few people were "blocking the way" down in Selma. One of them became a Congressman....

The beaten man on the ground here is Congressman John Lewis, D, from Georgia.
Guess he should have gotten out of the way...

This is more comparable to Berkeley than Davis. At UC Davis there were no beatings, no injuries. On either side. Pepper spray sucks, and in some cases could pose a health hazard. But it is safer than dogs, clubs, rubber bullets, water hoses, or physical manipulation. Of all the possible ways they could have cleared the quad, this was the best option. Interestingly, the Lieutenant did it himself, rather than let one of the lower ranks take the heat. It seems everyone there knew this was going to escalate, and from the video, that is what the protesters wanted.

There were better ways for the protesters to assemble. They did not need to put up tents (which are NOT symbolic free speech), nor restrict access, (which is also against the law). Other Occupy movements have been much better at dealing with cops and administration, making their statement legally.

 

[Sukerkin]

Now back to my question. Are you are saying "being in the way" is a civil liberty?

Are you being deliberately obtuse, good sir, or do you really not see the underlying point?

Either way, I'm wandering away from this now as it's two in the morning for me. Maybe Elder can set you straight as I know he sees where the problem lies quite clearly.

 

[elder999]

Quite right. I suppose this fellow should have gotten out of the way as well