Testing for black belt

[Tony Dismukes]

Not every system uses forms/kata/poomsae, and that is fine. They are not necessary in order to train a martial system. But if they are used, then they need to be trained diligently and they need to be explored to understand the lessons that they hold, and to drill that material. Otherwise the forms practice is useless.

Totally agree. Whatever benefits may come from form practice, you don't get them just from memorizing the choreography. Whenever I see someone describing a test or a competition and they talk about making mistakes (or not) in the sequence, I think something is wrong with the situation. By the time you've explored a form deeply enough to get any genuine use out of it, the choreography should long since be second nature.

 

[Flying Crane]

Totally agree. Whatever benefits may come from form practice, you don't get them just from memorizing the choreography. Whenever I see someone describing a test or a competition and they talk about making mistakes (or not) in the sequence, I think something is wrong with the situation. By the time you've explored a form deeply enough to get any genuine use out of it, the choreography should long since be second nature.

It also indicates that people are just going through the motions. They race through the form to get to the end, rather that focus on every section, to do it correctly. As a result, the choreography is essentially “correct”, but everything about it is wrong. Their stances and power transitions are all incomplete because they are rushing. Doing a form is a chance to take it slow and GET IT RIGHT. It should not be performance art.

There have been many debates here on Martialtalk, about the value of forms practice. Well like most things, it depends. Forms practice in and of itself is not good or bad. If it is done poorly, then it is worthless. If it is done well, then it is very valuable. For some people, their forms practice is worthless.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, I was just noticing that myself. Thank you for keeping me in my toes.

It is true for option 2 as well. It is three stripe for each kyu, and three kyu tests, total is 12, not 9.

I’ve had my head wrapped up in calculus for a while, sometimes I just cannot be bothered with such mundane arithmetic.

Get your head out of your abacus, Xue.

 

[Flying Crane]

Get your head out of your abacus, Xue.

Another correction: I’m not Xue!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Another correction: I’m not Xue!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Damnit - posted without paying attention. I need more caffeine!

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Another correction: I’m not Xue!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

C’mon, you know all you CMA guys look the same.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Damnit - posted without paying attention. I need more caffeine!

Get your head out of your abacus, Tony.

 

[skribs]

A stripe test was a low-pressure, part of class time kind of thing. We’d individually stand in front of the class, do our kata, critique each other, then line back up. Before lining back up, my teacher would put a strip of tape around my belt.

Same for the second stripe test, which was one-step and similar standardized stuff.

If it was an academic class, it would be the difference between a quiz and a final cumulative exam.

Why would I be out if I had to pay for that? All it would be IMO is nickeling and diming. What justification is there to pay for a 2 minute assessment, paying it twice, and then paying for the actual belt promotion test? How much does a strip of electrical tape cost?

Maybe I’m missing something.

What you're missing is that for the school I'm talking about, the stripe test was an official test. Tests were every month or two (this was like 20 years ago, so bear with me on my memory a bit), and it wasn't done "in-class".

Stripe tests like you say, which are basically an in-class assessment of a portion of the curriculum, shouldn't be charged, or maybe $5 or $10 for the dedicated instructor time to evaluate. They shouldn't be $50-75 like a full test. These tests make it feel like a sub-grade instead of a grade.

However, if getting a stripe is basically the same as a new belt - in that it comes with new requirements, increased responsibility, and it's a very similar testing process, then it can be considered a separate grade. If your school is going to have more grades, then stripes make more sense than doing different colors. For example, with 28 belts, would it be:

1. White
2. Yellow
3. Purple
4. Orange
5. Green
6. Blue
7. Red
8. Brown
9. Pink
10. Mustard Yellow
11. Periwinkle
12. Red-Orange
13. Sea Green
14. Royal Blue
15. Burghundy
16. Tan
17. Hot Pink

You get the idea. There's white and black, the primary and secondary colors, and brown. Anything after that and you need to start using shades. Or use pink, but then risk a significant number of boys leaving the gym because "I don't want a pink belt".

 

[JR 137]

What you're missing is that for the school I'm talking about, the stripe test was an official test. Tests were every month or two (this was like 20 years ago, so bear with me on my memory a bit), and it wasn't done "in-class".

Stripe tests like you say, which are basically an in-class assessment of a portion of the curriculum, shouldn't be charged, or maybe $5 or $10 for the dedicated instructor time to evaluate. They shouldn't be $50-75 like a full test. These tests make it feel like a sub-grade instead of a grade.

However, if getting a stripe is basically the same as a new belt - in that it comes with new requirements, increased responsibility, and it's a very similar testing process, then it can be considered a separate grade. If your school is going to have more grades, then stripes make more sense than doing different colors. For example, with 28 belts, would it be:

1. White
2. Yellow
3. Purple
4. Orange
5. Green
6. Blue
7. Red
8. Brown
9. Pink
10. Mustard Yellow
11. Periwinkle
12. Red-Orange
13. Sea Green
14. Royal Blue
15. Burghundy
16. Tan
17. Hot Pink

You get the idea. There's white and black, the primary and secondary colors, and brown. Anything after that and you need to start using shades. Or use pink, but then risk a significant number of boys leaving the gym because "I don't want a pink belt".

So a stripe is an unofficial new rank, or a rank within a rank? So we’re on the same page, a “stripe” is a strip of electrical tape, taped near the end of a belt, like a dan stripe would be on a black belt; not a stripe that goes the entire length of the belt like a junior black belt has the white stripe, correct?

My school did (as does my current school) 10th-1st kyu. Let’s say I’m a 10th kyu, and promotion to 9th kyu is typically 3 months. After about 2 months, I get tested on my kata as described above. I get a stripe on my belt. A few weeks later I get tested on one-steps, and a 2nd stripe on my belt. All those two stripes mean is that I’m eligible to test for 9th kyu. I don’t learn any new material, have any new responsibilities, etc. I’m still 10th kyu. Same with every kyu rank until black belt, then stripes are non-existent.

So when your school awards you a stripe, you learn more material afterwards? I’ve seen some syllabi where they list level 1, level 2, etc. within a kyu rank and learn new material at each level. But there isn’t a formal test to get to the next level within a kyu rank; rather, the student would be taught the new material after the instructor thought the student had a good enough grasp of the easier stuff. Better way to put it, if there are 3 kata required for 3rd kyu, the teacher will teach one kata, wait until the student gets that one somewhat down, then teach the second one, wait until that one’s good enough, then the 3rd one instead of teaching them all in a shorter time period and let them improve them together.

Having a somewhat formal rank within a rank seems odd to me, but I have no experience with it so who am I to criticize?

One other question... after you earn a stripe, are you tested on that material again during a full promotion exam, or is it not tested because you’ve already demonstrated proficiency? We were tested on everything during promotion exams; the stripe only meant you were eligible to be tested and not that you’ve officially passed anything.

 

[skribs]

So a stripe is an unofficial new rank, or a rank within a rank? So we’re on the same page, a “stripe” is a strip of electrical tape, taped near the end of a belt, like a dan stripe would be on a black belt; not a stripe that goes the entire length of the belt like a junior black belt has the white stripe, correct?

My school did (as does my current school) 10th-1st kyu. Let’s say I’m a 10th kyu, and promotion to 9th kyu is typically 3 months. After about 2 months, I get tested on my kata as described above. I get a stripe on my belt. A few weeks later I get tested on one-steps, and a 2nd stripe on my belt. All those two stripes mean is that I’m eligible to test for 9th kyu. I don’t learn any new material, have any new responsibilities, etc. I’m still 10th kyu. Same with every kyu rank until black belt, then stripes are non-existent.

So when your school awards you a stripe, you learn more material afterwards? I’ve seen some syllabi where they list level 1, level 2, etc. within a kyu rank and learn new material at each level. But there isn’t a formal test to get to the next level within a kyu rank; rather, the student would be taught the new material after the instructor thought the student had a good enough grasp of the easier stuff. Better way to put it, if there are 3 kata required for 3rd kyu, the teacher will teach one kata, wait until the student gets that one somewhat down, then teach the second one, wait until that one’s good enough, then the 3rd one instead of teaching them all in a shorter time period and let them improve them together.

Having a somewhat formal rank within a rank seems odd to me, but I have no experience with it so who am I to criticize?

One other question... after you earn a stripe, are you tested on that material again during a full promotion exam, or is it not tested because you’ve already demonstrated proficiency? We were tested on everything during promotion exams; the stripe only meant you were eligible to be tested and not that you’ve officially passed anything.

That school tested everything every time, if I remember right. Keep in mind, I was 7 years old when I started there, and I was 11 when I quit. I started 22 years ago. So I wasn't quite aware of all the processes and I don't remember everything today. Also, I don't know what anything costed, because as far as I was concerned, it was free.

Basically we thought of it like White Belt, White 1, White 2, White 3, and Yellow Belt. Then Yellow 1, Yellow 2, Yellow 3, and then Purple Belt. As an example of what was needed, we had exercises (which were like mini-forms) and forms. So white belt needed to learn Exercise 1 and test on it. White 1 needed to learn Exercise 2, and was tested on Exercises 1 & 2. White 2 needed to learn Exercise 3, and was tested on Exercises 1-3. White 3 needed to learn Form 1, and was tested on Exercises 1-3, and Form 1. The school did Kibon forms (which are basic forms), Palgwe forms (older KKW forms) and Taegeuk forms (newer KKW forms) in addition to the Exercises. So there was a lot of stuff to memorize, but I think only one new form/exercise each test.

There was obviously other stuff, such as punches, kicks, etc. that you had to learn, and there was a lot of sparring, too. But that's what I remember as far as curriculum goes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What you're missing is that for the school I'm talking about, the stripe test was an official test. Tests were every month or two (this was like 20 years ago, so bear with me on my memory a bit), and it wasn't done "in-class".

Stripe tests like you say, which are basically an in-class assessment of a portion of the curriculum, shouldn't be charged, or maybe $5 or $10 for the dedicated instructor time to evaluate. They shouldn't be $50-75 like a full test. These tests make it feel like a sub-grade instead of a grade.

However, if getting a stripe is basically the same as a new belt - in that it comes with new requirements, increased responsibility, and it's a very similar testing process, then it can be considered a separate grade. If your school is going to have more grades, then stripes make more sense than doing different colors. For example, with 28 belts, would it be:

1. White
2. Yellow
3. Purple
4. Orange
5. Green
6. Blue
7. Red
8. Brown
9. Pink
10. Mustard Yellow
11. Periwinkle
12. Red-Orange
13. Sea Green
14. Royal Blue
15. Burghundy
16. Tan
17. Hot Pink

You get the idea. There's white and black, the primary and secondary colors, and brown. Anything after that and you need to start using shades. Or use pink, but then risk a significant number of boys leaving the gym because "I don't want a pink belt".

I love the image of folks trying to tell the difference between a dirty yellow belt, a faded brown belt, and a mustard yellow belt. The red, red-orange, and orange would only be confusing when all three aren't in the room at the same time. And somebody's going to wash their burgundy belt into either hot pink (promotion!) or pink (demotion!).

 

[Dirty Dog]

What you're missing is that for the school I'm talking about, the stripe test was an official test. Tests were every month or two (this was like 20 years ago, so bear with me on my memory a bit), and it wasn't done "in-class".

Stripe tests like you say, which are basically an in-class assessment of a portion of the curriculum, shouldn't be charged, or maybe $5 or $10 for the dedicated instructor time to evaluate. They shouldn't be $50-75 like a full test. These tests make it feel like a sub-grade instead of a grade.

However, if getting a stripe is basically the same as a new belt - in that it comes with new requirements, increased responsibility, and it's a very similar testing process, then it can be considered a separate grade. If your school is going to have more grades, then stripes make more sense than doing different colors. For example, with 28 belts, would it be:

1. White
2. Yellow
3. Purple
4. Orange
5. Green
6. Blue
7. Red
8. Brown
9. Pink
10. Mustard Yellow
11. Periwinkle
12. Red-Orange
13. Sea Green
14. Royal Blue
15. Burghundy
16. Tan
17. Hot Pink

You get the idea. There's white and black, the primary and secondary colors, and brown. Anything after that and you need to start using shades. Or use pink, but then risk a significant number of boys leaving the gym because "I don't want a pink belt".

You forgot the cammo belt... (which is actually used by one system).

In our system, there are 10 geup ranks. Belts are white, yellow, green, blue and red. 9th geup is yellow belt. 8th is yellow with a green tape stripe added to the tip. 7th is green. 6th is green with a blue stripe, etc. 3rd is red, 2nd has one black stripe, 1st has 2 black stripes. Chodanbo is half red/half black (the KKW poom belt).
Testing for rank is testing for rank, because each step is another geup rank. While I know of schools that do 'fractional tests' between ranks, we do not.

 

[pdg]

So we’re on the same page, a “stripe” is a strip of electrical tape, taped near the end of a belt, like a dan stripe would be on a black belt; not a stripe that goes the entire length of the belt like a junior black belt has the white stripe, correct?

I'm on a different page

This is what I consider a stripe:



3rd kup belt - 4th kup is solid blue, 2nd is solid red.

In this instance a "stripe test" is indistinguishable from a "solid colour test" because it's a whole grade.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Since im doing american kenpo karate we have like 3 black tips on our brown belt then you gonna test for black our is back ward it goes 321 brown then black and some other its 123 then black belt

 

[KenpoMaster805]

What you're missing is that for the school I'm talking about, the stripe test was an official test. Tests were every month or two (this was like 20 years ago, so bear with me on my memory a bit), and it wasn't done "in-class".

Stripe tests like you say, which are basically an in-class assessment of a portion of the curriculum, shouldn't be charged, or maybe $5 or $10 for the dedicated instructor time to evaluate. They shouldn't be $50-75 like a full test. These tests make it feel like a sub-grade instead of a grade.

However, if getting a stripe is basically the same as a new belt - in that it comes with new requirements, increased responsibility, and it's a very similar testing process, then it can be considered a separate grade. If your school is going to have more grades, then stripes make more sense than doing different colors. For example, with 28 belts, would it be:

1. White
2. Yellow
3. Purple
4. Orange
5. Green
6. Blue
7. Red
8. Brown
9. Pink
10. Mustard Yellow
11. Periwinkle
12. Red-Orange
13. Sea Green
14. Royal Blue
15. Burghundy
16. Tan
17. Hot Pink

You get the idea. There's white and black, the primary and secondary colors, and brown. Anything after that and you need to start using shades. Or use pink, but then risk a significant number of boys leaving the gym because "I don't want a pink belt".

we only wear pink belt when its October Breast cancer awareness month we even have pink with black stripe

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You forgot the cammo belt... (which is actually used by one system).

In our system, there are 10 geup ranks. Belts are white, yellow, green, blue and red. 9th geup is yellow belt. 8th is yellow with a green tape stripe added to the tip. 7th is green. 6th is green with a blue stripe, etc. 3rd is red, 2nd has one black stripe, 1st has 2 black stripes. Chodanbo is half red/half black (the KKW poom belt).
Testing for rank is testing for rank, because each step is another geup rank. While I know of schools that do 'fractional tests' between ranks, we do not.

I want to find someone who uses random tape colors for stripes. Just buy the 8-pack on Amazon (you know, to cut the high cost of those stripe, man), and go crazy with it. Or maybe use the color to indicate their opinion of the student: "This yellow belt just passed his first stripe test, but barely - dude gets a yellow stripe.That guy over there sucked so bad at his test we gave him a white stripe."

Okay, maybe I need more coffee. Haven't really found a good punch line for this one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm on a different page

This is what I consider a stripe:

View attachment 21400

3rd kup belt - 4th kup is solid blue, 2nd is solid red.

In this instance a "stripe test" is indistinguishable from a "solid colour test" because it's a whole grade.

While that makes logical sense, it feels like it makes it harder to shop around for deals on belts (for the instructor/school).

 

[Jaeimseu]

While that makes logical sense, it feels like it makes it harder to shop around for deals on belts (for the instructor/school).

Those belts are a bit more expensive, but I use them, as well. I think students get more excited about receiving a new belt than a piece of tape. For me, it’s a small investment in students’ happiness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Those belts are a bit more expensive, but I use them, as well. I think students get more excited about receiving a new belt than a piece of tape. For me, it’s a small investment in students’ happiness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was thinking more just another belt color. I never did the stripe thing (either type), so I'm used to the getting a new belt. I've considered stripes, but I'm not sure what purpose they'd serve. I was more looking in the direction of a purple belt between red and blue (see what I did there?).

 

[skribs]

Those belts are a bit more expensive, but I use them, as well. I think students get more excited about receiving a new belt than a piece of tape. For me, it’s a small investment in students’ happiness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The school I was at as a kid switched from tape stripes to stitched stripes when I was around purple belt.

I actually kind of like the tape stripe. It's like it adds character and helps make the belt "mine".