Tai Chi's Push Hands Law of Primal Unity

[Kung Fu Wang]

#1 is good to know if someone gets past #2.

It's so funny that when talking about "how to enhance Taiji PH", Windwalker then says that some people may train Taiji PH for health. The moment that combat and health start to mixing in one discussion, further discussion won't make any sense.

One time a girl added "lotus hands" into her Taiji form. I asked her why. She said, "It looks pretty." I then knew any further discussion with her could be meaningless.

 

[Same Trick]

1. Static single PH.
2. Dynamic single PH.
3. Static double PH.
4. Dynamic double PH.

Mainly you use one hand to push on your opponent's wrist, use another hand to push on his elbow. Your opponent yields (and guide your force into the emptiness). Your opponent then pushes back to you. You then yield and ...

It's training, not competition.

Thank you !

 

[Same Trick]

It's so funny that when talking about "how to enhance Taiji PH", Windwalker then says that some people may train Taiji PH for health. The moment that combat and health start to mixing in one discussion, further discussion won't make any sense.

One time a girl added "lotus hands" into her Taiji form. I asked her why. She said, "It looks pretty." I then knew any further discussion with her could be meaningless.

A new taiji teacher had come to town, I went there to have a look, she was from China and had not yet grasped the language of her new country.

Anyway she asked if I’ve done some Taiji, yes I said, show me she asked, I did the Zheng Manqing form, she said I look so beautiful

 

[Same Trick]

This thread is about push hands theory not your personal take on something that doesn't exist.

And yet here we are once again. I should have known this would happen once you started talking about the "good old days" again.

Talk about people "writing" without being able to do what they claim. I've seen your videos. You can't be using lin kong jin -- you're wearing gloves. I'm not an idiot.

In your OP it seem you try using PH as a vehicle for personal enlightenment



“a clear, pure, and complete feeling, like returning to your original self. In fact the training of push hands has no element of resistance at all, thereby entirely restoring you to a primordial state”


PH is a two person engagement, be thankful for the other side, yield gracefully rather than brutally

 

[windwalker099]

Windwalker then says that some people may train Taiji PH for health. The moment that combat and health start to mixing in one discussion, further discussion won't make any sense.

To be clear
The practice of push hands, is one way to check if the solo practice is correct.
The focus has changed for some, with the advent of competition..


汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan:

Older people practice for longevity and health, while younger people aim for martial skills. Those with chronic illnesses practice for therapeutic purposes, which also falls under the category of health cultivation. Once their illnesses are cured, some may change their goals to pursue martial skills.

Wu-style Tai Chi's arm-traveling and pushing hands inherited by Pei Zuyin

The original intention of Chinese martial arts is to fight the enemy, it is a life-and-death fighting skill, so there must be no ambiguity in the training of fighting skills! People who truly master the superb martial arts based on the concept of Tai Chi are rare in China.

There are levels of practice, some of which, for most modern people, there is neither the time nor the need.
For those looking deeper, there are people out there...

For some, it may be like 缘木求鱼 (yuán mù qiú yú), "climbing a tree to catch a fish."
I see no point in trying to make something into what it's not, nor in changing what others do.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It's so funny that when talking about "how to enhance Taiji PH", Windwalker then says that some people may train Taiji PH for health. The moment that combat and health start to mixing in one discussion, further discussion won't make any sense.

One time a girl added "lotus hands" into her Taiji form. I asked her why. She said, "It looks pretty." I then knew any further discussion with her could be meaningless.

Well, I learned martial arts to better learn to fight. These days I don’t fight if I can help it. I still enjoy learning and improving even though I’m not likely to fight. I am happy that all that exercise improved my health but I wouldn’t have done the training just for that. The health benefits never entered my mind until recently. For me, the fitness was a necessary vehicle to survive the training and get the most from it, out of shape fighters don’t fare well in most cases. I thought I wanted to learn Wing Woo Gar gung fu because I thought I knew what I was looking at. Later, my Sifu explained that I also needed Tai Chi Chuan to complement the hard side. The health part was never the focus, the practice was the focus, just that, no push hands at all. Cotton slippers on polished and waxed concrete floor. “Do it again” “Now do it slower” “ Again, as fast as you can manage without slop”. Over and over and over. That’s how I learned, no questions, just do it again and again.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Older people practice for longevity and health,

Are we still talking about how to use Taiji in combat?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Are we still talking about how to use Taiji in combat?

Well I am. Sort of. But since I’m not in combat, maybe not? So what is it then? Sport, health, combat, social, hobby ? All that?

 

[windwalker099]

 

[windwalker099]

The OP

In fact the training of push hands has no element of resistance at all, thereby entirely restoring you to a primordial state (hunyuan).

Master Cheuk Fung describes Hun Yuan Strength.

Hun Yuan Strength

He makes distinction between normal strength and "hunyuan" strength using this concept.
How would it apply to combat is another type of training that relies on the first training to acquire the skill.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you truly believe this video is real?

At 3.51, A and B touch on C's knees. C sends force through his knees and send both A and B flying away.

 

[Same Trick]

Do you truly believe this video is real?

At 3.51, A and B touch on C's knees. C sends force through his knees and send both A and B flying away.

In the text WW posted accompanying the video the author explains things quite well, however if what is supposedly happening in the video is the same as seen in the picture with the article, then it’s somewhat sad.

I study Yiquan in the linage of Yao Zhongxun who was the teacher of my teacher. In this linage there are no such marvelous exhibitions of power generation. Also should be pointed out that Yao Zhongxun was apointed as successor to the founder of Yiquan - Wang Xiangzhai

 

[windwalker099]

Do you truly believe this video is real?

What I believe not the thread topic.
The OP mentioned

Appledog said:
In fact the training of push hands has no element of resistance at all, thereby entirely restoring you to a primordial state (hunyuan).

Don't know what the "primordial state" means
the OP refers to.

The video presented the actuality of "hunyuang state" in demonstration ..

In answer to the question, it's not a belief.

What was shown in the video aligns with my experience.
The way it's explained a little different,
the effect is the same.

I study Yiquan in the linage of Yao Zhongxun who was the teacher of my teacher. In this linage there are no such marvelous exhibitions of power generation.

An interesting read

A: [Wang Xiangzhai’s disciple, now deceased] Ao Shi-peng once told me an anecdote that took place while China was in the thrall of ‘Qigong mania’ [in the 80s]. Ao asked M Yao about the ‘fa gong’ [external release of qi], and asked whether Yiquan could produce this kind of ability too.

At first, M Yao was reluctant to talk about this kind of thing, but eventually, seeing that Ao wasn’t going to drop it, sighed and raised his hand. Bear in mind that Ao and M Yao were separated by a dining table at this point. M Yao lifted his hand and made a very small fa li motion towards Ao’s face.

Ao felt as if a large mass of paper had hit his forehead, it scared him witless. Have you ever come across this ability?

C: M Yao was always reluctant to talk about this kind of thing, even in his books he denied it existed in Yiquan. His intent was not to lead Yiquan students astray. Actually, the practice of Yiquan can develop this ability.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The OP

Hun Yuan Strength

He makes distinction between normal strength and "hunyuan" strength using this concept.
How would it apply to combat is another type of training that relies on the first training to acquire the skill.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Do you truly believe this video is real?

At 3.51, A and B touch on C's knees. C sends force through his knees and send both A and B flying away.

I’m not a little kid, but if I was, I would be disappointed in this show.

 

[windwalker099]

Talks about (hunyuan)
in a different way, with demonstration
note the similarities...in effect..

Taiji by Gao, ZhuangFe.
(Tai Chi), it is both scientific and philosophical. These two are combined together, using boxing principles and boxing methods. So I think it means that if you don’t have the knowledge of Tai Chi and the understanding of the word Tai Chi, you won’t be able to practice Tai Chi very well. What is Tai Chi? Master Gao Zhuang Fei

Master Gao Zhung Fei
1932-2023

"Gao Zhuangfei was a disciple of Wang Peisheng, a famous martial artist, who had been taught by Yang Yuting for many years. Over the past few decades, he has worked hard to study and practice the true works of teachers and teachers, and has integrated Chinese philosophy, traditional Chinese medicine, physiology, biomechanical, exercise physiology, meridian science, human anatomy and philosophy such as Confucianism, Taoism, Buddha, Yi Jing and Yi into Taijiquan, carefully speculating, deeply studying, and creating a natural, natural and physiological science of human movement. "

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In the text WW posted accompanying the video the author explains things quite well, however if what is supposedly happening in the video is the same as seen in the picture with the article, then it’s somewhat sad.

I study Yiquan in the linage of Yao Zhongxun who was the teacher of my teacher. In this linage there are no such marvelous exhibitions of power generation. Also should be pointed out that Yao Zhongxun was apointed as successor to the founder of Yiquan - Wang Xiangzhai

What is most distressing is that there is some legitimacy to these practices and theories, but not without the physical realities of training. This opens the door for fakes, hucksters, and charlatans to take advantage of people without the experience to discern reality from farce.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I had a chance to train a little with Wang Rengang of International Dachengdao Kungfu he had trained with student of Wang Xiangzhai, and although he could not make me jump across the room with a magic touch, he did have the ability to punch me in the head at will, as well as punch me just about anywhere else.... DANG he was fast....

 

[Xue Sheng]

What is most distressing is that there is some legitimacy to these practices and theories, but not without the physical realities of training. This opens the door for fakes, hucksters, and charlatans to take advantage of people without the experience to discern reality from farce.

Ask Dr Yang sometime about a no touch knockout guy that came to his school and did a demo, when his main school was in Boston

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Ask Dr Yang sometime about a no touch knockout guy that came to his school and did a demo, when his main school was in Boston

I will ask him.