Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?

[puunui]

I've never heard of a sport gaining Olympic status and then losing it. Has there been any rationale given as to why?

Other sports have lost its Olympic status before. Baseball I think for one. There are many reasons why a sport can be taken off the Olympic program. One of the reasons against taekwondo is that many IOC members consider taekwondo to be a haven for countries run by undesirables, and it gives those countries a chance to flaunt the spotlight at the IOC's expense sometimes. Countries like Iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. A cuban taekwondo competitor kicked a referee in the head at the 2008 Olympics, and Fidel Castro declared him a national hero. Things like that.

 

[mastercole]

Other sports have lost its Olympic status before. Baseball I think for one. There are many reasons why a sport can be taken off the Olympic program. One of the reasons against taekwondo is that many IOC members consider taekwondo to be a haven for countries run by undesirables, and it gives those countries a chance to flaunt the spotlight at the IOC's expense sometimes. Countries like Iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. A cuban taekwondo competitor kicked a referee in the head at the 2008 Olympics, and Fidel Castro declared him a national hero. Things like that.

Fidel Castro's good friends, KIM Jong Ill and his father KIM Ill Sung, assisted by CHOI Hong Hi and the ITF, continuously worked to block Taekwondo from gaining Olympic status, and worked just as hard to have Taekwondo's Olympic status removed, still work today to do the same. The North Korean terrorist group and their sympathizers know that having Taekwondo removed from Olympics weakens the international standing of USA's staunch ally, South Korea. When one of USA's great allies looses such a powerful international relationship channel like the Olympics, it also weakens Americas position as well.

But CHOI Hong Hi's work for the North Korean United Front Department, spreading their hate filled message and lies has been very successful, so successful in fact that right here in the USA we have American flag waving citizens that identify themselves as patriots for the American cause, repeating the United Front Departments exact propaganda lines hoping Taekwondo is booted from the Olympics, claiming that South Korean Taekwondo is not a martial art, etc. Many people who practice Taekwondo always like to say that Taekwondo is about discipline, morals. spirit and ultimately peace, or world peace. They need to think about what this really means, and what the real benefits of having Taekwondo as an Olympic event are.

 

[SPX]

Other sports have lost its Olympic status before. Baseball I think for one. There are many reasons why a sport can be taken off the Olympic program. One of the reasons against taekwondo is that many IOC members consider taekwondo to be a haven for countries run by undesirables, and it gives those countries a chance to flaunt the spotlight at the IOC's expense sometimes. Countries like Iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. A cuban taekwondo competitor kicked a referee in the head at the 2008 Olympics, and Fidel Castro declared him a national hero. Things like that.

Interesting. I had never heard that. Why pick on TKD, though? I mean, don't sportsmen from these countries also compete in other events as well?

 

[puunui]

Interesting. I had never heard that. Why pick on TKD, though? I mean, don't sportsmen from these countries also compete in other events as well?

One of the argument put forth by taekwondo is that it gives competitors from countries who don't send athletes to the Games, a chance to participate. There are no gymnasts or swimmers competing in the Olympic from Iran for example. But some IOC members look at that and think if we get rid of taekwondo, we also get rid, of these countries as well. Dr. Kim in his speech above, told us that the IOC HATES Taekwondo, and that we need to be especially careful. I think we should take his advice. He knows that taekwondo is hanging by a thread.

 

[puunui]

Fidel Castro's good friends, KIM Jong Ill and his father KIM Ill Sung, assisted by CHOI Hong Hi and the ITF, continuously worked to block Taekwondo from gaining Olympic status, and worked just as hard to have Taekwondo's Olympic status removed, still work today to do the same.

That's right, North Korea's IOC member and ITF President Mr. CHANG Ung is probably the flag bearer on getting Taekwondo kicked out of the Olympics. Having South Korea shamed by losing Taekwondo's Olympic status is North Korea's immediate game right now, and everyone who contributes to that anti-taekwondo hate, in reality is helping North Korea further their scheme.

 

[SPX]

One of the argument put forth by taekwondo is that it gives competitors from countries who don't send athletes to the Games, a chance to participate. There are no gymnasts or swimmers competing in the Olympic from Iran for example.

I don't get how that is any more true though for TKD than for weight lifting or shotput. I mean, what is special about TKD that it is somehow a gateway for these countries? Is it somehow more accessible? Certainly there are swimming pools and weight benches in Iran. . .

But some IOC members look at that and think if we get rid of taekwondo, we also get rid, of these countries as well. Dr. Kim in his speech above, told us that the IOC HATES Taekwondo, and that we need to be especially careful. I think we should take his advice. He knows that taekwondo is hanging by a thread.

That's interesting. So what do you think will happen?

 

[Carol]

I don't get how that is any more true though for TKD than for weight lifting or shotput. I mean, what is special about TKD that it is somehow a gateway for these countries? Is it somehow more accessible? Certainly there are swimming pools and weight benches in Iran. . .

One reason, Iran is a very conservative Islamic country. The skin-tight athletic wear worn by many athletes is strongly frowned upon.

 

[Gorilla]

If they drop TKD they probably add Karate another great sport. I hope that they add Karate and keep TKD. That would open a lot of options for us. Many people in Karate are skeptical about the Olympic movement and many are excited about the proposition.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Ive gotta be honest, and I'll probably get shot for saying this but, unless you are a tkdist it really isnt much of a spectator sport, it really is boring. I dont know if its the ruleset, the competitors, the scoring or what it is, but I dont watch olympic tkd and see it as a fair representation of what tkd has to offer. I also dont know if the olympic commitee take this into consideration, or many other sports would probably lose olympic status also.I always felt that tkd should be run more like the gymnastics where each competitor has to perform on several apparatus. Each competitior should spar, then perform a self defence routine (given a score by judges), then do a timber break (maximum 10 baords) however they wish to break them (individual or multiple breaks) and then be judged on poomsae. The competitor with the most points wins. Sparring is one part of tkd and it seems a bit wierd to me to be judged "olympic gold medal winner for tkd" when all you did was spar. My insructor always says that they should call it "tkd sparring" in the olympics, not tkd, I tend to agree.

 

[mastercole]

Ive gotta be honest, and I'll probably get shot for saying this but, unless you are a tkdist it really isnt much of a spectator sport, it really is boring. I dont know if its the ruleset, the competitors, the scoring or what it is, but I dont watch olympic tkd and see it as a fair representation of what tkd has to offer. I also dont know if the olympic commitee take this into consideration, or many other sports would probably lose olympic status also.I always felt that tkd should be run more like the gymnastics where each competitor has to perform on several apparatus. Each competitior should spar, then perform a self defence routine (given a score by judges), then do a timber break (maximum 10 baords) however they wish to break them (individual or multiple breaks) and then be judged on poomsae. The competitor with the most points wins. Sparring is one part of tkd and it seems a bit wierd to me to be judged "olympic gold medal winner for tkd" when all you did was spar. My insructor always says that they should call it "tkd sparring" in the olympics, not tkd, I tend to agree.

I'm all for using it's proper name, Shihap Kyorugi, or Match Sparring. It's not a complete representative of Taekwondo, but it is the best representative of Taekwondo. Forms, board breaking or hoshinsul would have never made it around the world to root Taekwondo in 200 nations. Match sparring was the spear head, or vehicle to introduce Taekwondo to the world and it was successful, the learning more part would follow. And that is happening now, a great many people are beginning to learn a great many things about Taekwondo because of match sparring being in the Olympic games.

As for boring to watch, maybe. Depends. Years ago I went to a lot of local tournament -- point style - old style Taekwondo/Karate/open rules/non full-contact events and only a small few people had good skill. Then I started attending local Taekwondo tournaments, there were more people with better skills. Then to national events where there were many more good fighters with greater skill. Then to international events, where today, most fighters have excellent skills. But I did not see these events on TV or on a computer, I saw then all up close, live. That was way more impressive, knockout after knockout, after knockout.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I'm all for using it's proper name, Shihap Kyorugi, or Match Sparring. It's not a complete representative of Taekwondo, but it is the best representative of Taekwondo. Forms, board breaking or hoshinsul would have never made it around the world to root Taekwondo in 200 nations. Match sparring was the spear head, or vehicle to introduce Taekwondo to the world and it was successful, the learning more part would follow. And that is happening now, a great many people are beginning to learn a great many things about Taekwondo because of match sparring being in the Olympic games.

As for boring to watch, maybe. Depends. Years ago I went to a lot of local tournament -- point style - old style Taekwondo/Karate/open rules/non full-contact events and only a small few people had good skill. Then I started attending local Taekwondo tournaments, there were more people with better skills. Then to national events where there were many more good fighters with greater skill. Then to international events, where today, most fighters have excellent skills. But I did not see these events on TV or on a computer, I saw then all up close, live. That was way more impressive, knockout after knockout, after knockout.

Good points. I would never question the skills of these people, even from a tv screen I can see how incredibly quick they are and how good their reflexes are. In fact, just before the 2000 olympics here in australia a girl I train with went to melbourne and entered a tkd event (which was a big ask for her considering we dont do that style of sparring and it was all new to her). I was talking to her recently about the experience and she was in awe of the speed of her opponents and their knowledge of angles, distancing, reflexes etc etc. she actually got to spar Lauren burns who went on to win olympic gold in sydney. I, like you, am a tkdist so I can appreciate these things and see it for what it is, but I can see how people with no knowledge of tkd would not understand and find it boring, a little like test crikcet.

 

[mastercole]

I think it's IOC who is paying for national federations.

/Markku P.

Was it you that I met, several years back, maybe 1999, or early 2000's at the Kukkiwon. I think it was you and maybe your students that were standing out side the Kukkiwon cafeteria, right in front of the museum steps under the trees, by the benches. If I recall correctly, you were speaking with GM BANG Man Kyu and we realized we had communicated on tkd-net's list and spoke briefly before he took me on a tour of the museum. Excuse me if it was not you, it was someone from Sweden, Norway or Finland. My name is Al Cole from the USA.

 

[mastercole]

Good points. I would never question the skills of these people, even from a tv screen I can see how incredibly quick they are and how good their reflexes are. In fact, just before the 2000 olympics here in australia a girl I train with went to melbourne and entered a tkd event (which was a big ask for her considering we dont do that style of sparring and it was all new to her). I was talking to her recently about the experience and she was in awe of the speed of her opponents and their knowledge of angles, distancing, reflexes etc etc. she actually got to spar Lauren burns who went on to win olympic gold in sydney. I, like you, am a tkdist so I can appreciate these things and see it for what it is, but I can see how people with no knowledge of tkd would not understand and find it boring, a little like test crikcet.

Right, so I don't know how to relay the reality of what is actually happening in the ring to a TV viewer. Even to other Taekwondoin who have never been to an elite event. They see speed and accuracy, but sometime, they imagine there is not much power when in fact the elite WTF athletes generate an enormous among of power on impact, even often knockout opponents with blows to the body, through the hogu. How can that be shown on TV? I don't think it can.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Right, so I don't know how to relay the reality of what is actually happening in the ring to a TV viewer. Even to other Taekwondoin who have never been to an elite event. They see speed and accuracy, but sometime, they imagine there is not much power when in fact the elite WTF athletes generate an enormous among of power on impact, even often knockout opponents with blows to the body, through the hogu. How can that be shown on TV? I don't think it can.

It cant, and to someone who doesnt do tkd it just looks like two people playing "foot tag", and leads to the usual questions "why dont they keep their guard up?", "why dont they punch?" "how come they just keep doing roundhouse kicks?" etc etc. As a tkdist, I know the answers to those questions, but to the average joe sitting at home on the couch with a beer watching the olympics it gets a bit confusing and they dont understand it, and thus declare it boring. This sort of thing is boring to a non tkdist -----------------

 

[andyjeffries]

Other sports have lost its Olympic status before. Baseball I think for one. There are many reasons why a sport can be taken off the Olympic program. One of the reasons against taekwondo is that many IOC members consider taekwondo to be a haven for countries run by undesirables, and it gives those countries a chance to flaunt the spotlight at the IOC's expense sometimes. Countries like Iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc. A cuban taekwondo competitor kicked a referee in the head at the 2008 Olympics, and Fidel Castro declared him a national hero. Things like that.

So kick Cuba out of the IOC, not Taekwondo. I don't agree with punishing a sport to get rid of a minority undesirable element - man up and get rid of that element!

 

[andyjeffries]

Might I simply suggest that there were serious TKD practitioners prior to the sport being put into the Olympics. There were serious TKD practitioners while the sport was in the Olympics, but weren't really affected by it one way or the other. And if I may, there will be serious TKD practitioners still, regardless of whether it is discontinued on not. Will it affect some organizations? Perhaps. Will it, or should it affect the TKD practitioner as an individual? Probably not, unless their goal was specifically to go to the Olympics.

So Taekwondo is only about the serious individual?

I may be biased as I currently only teach children, but for me Taekwondo is for everyone. It's a vehicle of improvement for the person (fitness, etiquette, relationships) and it shouldn't only be left to the serious hard-core SD nut (or whatever).

Recently Jade Jones was on a major UK TV talk show (Jonathan Ross). My students were excited because there was an elite Taekwondo player on TV. It doesn't matter whether she was preparing for the Olympics or World Championships (the fact that it was the Olympics was what got her on TV though), the kids were excited to watch. I don't think any of them at this stage are dreaming of fighting at the Olympics, but to see others doing well, getting on TV for it, is inspiring for them to continue/start.

Then again I guess 6-13 year old kids fit your definition of "serious TKD practitioner" so I don't know if you think they should be training at all.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

So kick Cuba out of the IOC, not Taekwondo. I don't agree with punishing a sport to get rid of a minority undesirable element - man up and get rid of that element!

I couldnt agree more Andy. What punishment was handed out to that guy by the WTF? I never really heard anymore about the incident after the olympics.

 

[mastercole]

I couldnt agree more Andy. What punishment was handed out to that guy by the WTF? I never really heard anymore about the incident after the olympics.

He was banned for life.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

So Taekwondo is only about the serious individual?

I may be biased as I currently only teach children, but for me Taekwondo is for everyone. It's a vehicle of improvement for the person (fitness, etiquette, relationships) and it shouldn't only be left to the serious hard-core SD nut (or whatever).

Recently Jade Jones was on a major UK TV talk show (Jonathan Ross). My students were excited because there was an elite Taekwondo player on TV. It doesn't matter whether she was preparing for the Olympics or World Championships (the fact that it was the Olympics was what got her on TV though), the kids were excited to watch. I don't think any of them at this stage are dreaming of fighting at the Olympics, but to see others doing well, getting on TV for it, is inspiring for them to continue/start.

Then again I guess 6-13 year old kids fit your definition of "serious TKD practitioner" so I don't know if you think they should be training at all.

I think there can be a difference between "serious tkd practitioner" and someone who takes there tkd training "seriously". I am not a serious tkd practitioner, I am just too busy, I have 2 kids and run a large business, for me its a hobby. BUT, I take my tkd training seriously, I listen and try to grasp the concepts as well as I can and practice at home and work on my weaknesses. I know people will say its the same thing, but I tend to disagree. The problem I see with many kids doing tkd is that they just dont take it seriously, they do little or no practice at home and only enjoy it when they get to play "games". Thats fine, and there are clubs that cater for that as its a viable market. My instructor doesnt stand for that with kids, if they treat martial arts like a big game, he advises their parents that they may prefer to train at the club up the road and gladly hands out the details of another club. Im not saying he wont let the kids have fun, but all within reason. As an instructor its your own personal choice what you expect from your students and I can see it both ways and feel there is a place for both aproaches. I see this with my kids, my daughter treats it like a big game and my son only likes training when its 'serious', fortunately there are schools/instructors out there for both mindsets.

 

[Markku P]

Was it you that I met, several years back, maybe 1999, or early 2000's at the Kukkiwon.

I think it was some of my friends from Finland. Last time I visited in Kukkiwon was 1995