Strating your own System, That is the Question???????

[47MartialMan]

1) It’s kind of ironic though that there is a big push in the Army and Marines to learn H 2 H combat. The Marines have developed a system (which is quite practical BTW) and the Army has started requiring all or most of it’s units to practice H 2 H as part of their PT once a week. I know this because I was teaching several units. Having said that, most of the programs taught are emphasize more “Police like” techniques rather than “mortal combat” stuff. I am guess this is due to the fact they may be called to Iraq and have to use technique to detain people.

Sad-how military hand tactics and reasons for being deployed becomes more like police (and police action) each decade

 

[47MartialMan]

Fight Fire With Fire by Metallica was about as perfect of background music as you could get...

Why is this freaking you out


check this:

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm

 

[Makalakumu]

Why is this freaking you out


check this:

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm

Oh, I'm not freaked out. I'm an old school metal head. I heard the song and felt the head start banging of its own accord. My expression was appreciation...

Also, I think that these clips illustrate exactly why the military practices police compliance techniques. There are other, much more effective, deadly means of force at their disposal.

Anyway, new systems, approach with caution and skepticism. The above provides some good critical thought information when one is evaluating so called military arts.

 

[Cruentus]

Here is a good GENERAL assessment:

The best Long Range Warfare tactics and long gun tactics can be found in the military.

The best Pistol tactics and subject control techniques can be found in Law Enforcement.

The best Empty Hand and and non-firearm weapon tactics can be found in the civilian sector.

This only makes sense given the combat needs of each group. So if civilains want to learn good pistolcraft, it would be good for them to seek knowledge within the LE community. If Military feels they need better H2H tactics or knife tactics, or improvised weapon tactics, they would do well to seek training from the civilian sector. And so on.

There are obious exceptions to these 'rules,' but these are good general assessments.

One thing about military H2H is that a lot of what is taught is taught to build moral and confidence over effectiveness. This is because as other posters have mentioned, H2H is not nearly as important for the military as the other aspects of combat. This is why the army moved to a more BJJ curriculum over the old WWII combatives. The WWII combatives are clearly more effective then the current program when considering their needs, but the BJJ curriculum allows them to competition grapple, which acts as a great moral and comradory builder.

Paul

 

[47MartialMan]

Good.

But, everything has a place. In my norm, I have studied and work on two of the three.

 

[D.Cobb]

I don't see anything wrong with starting your own system as long as the reasons for it and the principles upon which it is built, are valid. That is, if you can see a better way to build a mouse trap, then do it. But if it's just so you can call yourself "Grandmaster" or "Soke", for personal gratification that comes with wearing rank, then it's all wrong, and nothing you teach can make it right.
If the principles are based in technique and physics relating to body mechanics, then OK, but if it relies purely on physical strength and brute force then, No, it's all wrong.
Also, I think it is ok to teach what you know, even if it is a mixture of systems, so long as you are honest about where it comes from. That is, if you learnt your stuff by watching videos and reading books, and ended up with a fairly decent system of self defense, then admit you got it from books etc. Don't try telling people it's a 2000 year old system of martial arts handed down from father to son blah blah blah ala Frank Dux ad nauseum ad infinitum.
Above and beyond everything else be honest about it.

--Dave

 

[RRouuselot]

I don't see anything wrong with starting your own system as long as the reasons for it and the principles upon which it is built, are valid. That is, if you can see a better way to build a mouse trap, then do it. But if it's just so you can call yourself "Grandmaster" or "Soke", for personal gratification that comes with wearing rank, then it's all wrong, and nothing you teach can make it right.
If the principles are based in technique and physics relating to body mechanics, then OK, but if it relies purely on physical strength and brute force then, No, it's all wrong.
Also, I think it is ok to teach what you know, even if it is a mixture of systems, so long as you are honest about where it comes from. That is, if you learnt your stuff by watching videos and reading books, and ended up with a fairly decent system of self defense, then admit you got it from books etc. Don't try telling people it's a 2000 year old system of martial arts handed down from father to son blah blah blah ala Frank Dux ad nauseum ad infinitum.
Above and beyond everything else be honest about it.

--Dave

Dave,

I agree. My main dislike is the folks that lie about or feel the need to make up where they got their training.
I have no doubt there are systems out there that have been put together and are effective......it's just the ones that feel the need to tag on stupid misused titles, false history, bogus claims and all the other useless baggage that lose my respect.
If they would just say something like "hey, I have studied this and that for XXXX amount of time, I make no claims it is better than anything out there.
(because we all know it's not the art but the artist that makes it effective)
I would respect such a person and be interested in what they do far more than the blow hard that feels he needs to pad his resume with nonsense because it is the blow hard kind of person that disrespects his fellow martial artist.

 

[47MartialMan]

Yes, it is shameful when someone is mislead into an art, only to never realise and/or realise much later, that there isn't an exact lineage. They either have to drop out or move on to study other arts and strengthen their abilities. Those that move on, are observed for their courage, abilities, confidence, and integrity. They are also recognized by their immediate peers. As there may be some whom believe there should be a standard on how one should be a creator of a art. I guess this was no different than martial arts in the past. I view progression like a scholastic grading and then into the "social world"

 

[MichiganTKD]

Don't teach your own system by proclaiming yourself 10th Dan Head Founder of it (You hear me World Head of Family Soke?). Be honest. Say what your background is, what you teach and why. Then let time and circumstances decide whether you succeed or fail.

 

[The Kai]

MTKD has a good point, maybe you did come up with something new or a novel twist. Teach it as best you can, let your downline speak for your insight

 

[James Kovacich]

Don't teach your own system by proclaiming yourself 10th Dan Head Founder of it (You hear me World Head of Family Soke?). Be honest. Say what your background is, what you teach and why. Then let time and circumstances decide whether you succeed or fail.

You seem to be pretty down on these Grandmasters. Would you care to name the ones who are "un-deserving and why?"
http://www.bushido.org/~whfsc/

I'm sure there are more reasons that are better why and why they should be than you can come up with that they shouldn't.

 

[tshadowchaser]

You might want to put such names in the Horror section but be sure you have all your facts correct befor you go nameing names

 

[James Kovacich]

You might want to put such names in the Horror section but be sure you have all your facts correct befor you go nameing names

I agree.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I'm not going to name names, because I don't want to get into a name calling session. However, a look at the biographies of many of these "Masters" and "Grandmasters" will reveal honorary black belts up the wazoo, self bestowed 10th Dans, and Master-level ranking in 6-7 different arts. One member is listed as 10th Dan in kickboxing. Draw your own conclusions.
For example, one of the Tae Kwon Do Instructors lists in his biography that he studied under Dr. Un Yong Kim, former President of the WTF. To my knowledge, Dr. Kim has never taught TKD. He was the administrator of the WTF and Kukkiwon, but did not seriously practice Tae Kwon Do. So aside from being an alleged Grandmaster, he is also a liar.

 

[RRouuselot]

I'm not going to name names, because I don't want to get into a name calling session. However, a look at the biographies of many of these "Masters" and "Grandmasters" will reveal honorary black belts up the wazoo, self bestowed 10th Dans, and Master-level ranking in 6-7 different arts. One member is listed as 10th Dan in kickboxing. Draw your own conclusions.
For example, one of the Tae Kwon Do Instructors lists in his biography that he studied under Dr. Un Yong Kim, former President of the WTF. To my knowledge, Dr. Kim has never taught TKD. He was the administrator of the WTF and Kukkiwon, but did not seriously practice Tae Kwon Do. So aside from being an alleged Grandmaster, he is also a liar.

Well I saw 2 individuals on there that are dubious.

One guy belonged to a Japanese Org. years ago and was promoted to shodan or there about and claimed at one time to be the US Rep. for said Japanese Org. but was later given the boot for being at total nut job…..not to mention a bold face liar.

The other individual went around Okinawa kissing *** and throwing money around to get up to a 6th dan but I see now he is also a “Grand Master”.

 

[MichiganTKD]

And that's just two guys. Imagine what the rest of them are like. But you know, birds of a feather flock together.

 

[47MartialMan]

I think the thead is about certain criteria or ideas on how one can start their own system and not debunking or fraud busting others.

 

[RRouuselot]

And that's just two guys. Imagine what the rest of them are like. But you know, birds of a feather flock together.

And those 2 are some of the better known, and dare I said "respected", people on there.

 

[RRouuselot]

I think the thead is about certain criteria or ideas on how one can start their own system and not debunking or fraud busting others.

I think you fail to see the point. Nobody is "fraud busting".
This thRead is about starting your own system and some if not most of the yahoos on that website have started their own system. People are commenting on those that have started their own systems as an example of some of the criteria people have used to do just that.

 

[47MartialMan]

And what has this to do with the thread originator's questionaire?


Lets say for sake of argument you agree with ppl starting their own systems. I have 4 questions.

1) What is the mininum rank a person should hold before starting their own system??

2) How long should a person have studied and or had time in grade?

3) What other requirements should a person have?

4) Should there be some type of exam board or accrediation board for testing to ensure high standards?