lklawson
Grandmaster
Sad.I don't care about your position. Your position has nothing to do with his false statement. You don't like what I say ignore it that's what the ignore button it for
Peace favor your undies
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Sad.I don't care about your position. Your position has nothing to do with his false statement. You don't like what I say ignore it that's what the ignore button it for
Peace favor your undies
But its no longer that art. If my art uses groin shots small joint manipulation throat shots eye gouges as a portion of the art and you remove them then its no longer my art its just a fraction of the art.
Bjj has spine dislocations, knee breaks, ankle breaks, wrist breaks, and moves that could potentially kill someone. If I enter a Bjj tournament that doesn't allow most of that, am I still doing Bjj? What if I use Bjj to control them, but stop short of applying the force to dislocate their spine, am I still doing Bjj?
Come on man...
LoL! Okay then, please show me some Aikido reaping throws. I'll even help you out, they look something like this;
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kouchigari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm
Despite your obvious extensive knowledge of Aikido, these are not Aikido throws, so takedowns in Aikido do not look like that. You lifted them all from a judo site. However, as been pointed out they do exist in other styles and they do exist in my 'hybrid' karate. They are actually in the 'hybrid' kata that Goju people perform.
The fight shown was described as NHB. The fact that the aikido guy used a reap to take down his opponent is irrelevant or are you saying that in say UFC an Aikidoka could not use any technique that was not in an Aikido syllabus, if there was such a thing? That is patently ludicrous like many of your assertions.
If you need to refer back to the video, they were performed at 0:54 in the first video, and about 1:02 in the second video.
The point? Reaping throws are practical, and easy to pull off. Much easier than catching someone's wrist in midair and putting them in a wrist lock.
Catching a wrist in mid air is actually a lot easier than I would have thought before I started aikido. However, catching a wrist in mid air with one hand is considerably more difficult and retaining the grip with one hand, nearly impossible. As to applying a wrist lock with only one hand, very difficult.
The point is that when the poop hits the fan, both guys clinch, wrestle each other to the ground, and get into a submission fight.
Both guys might clinch and both guys might go to the ground. Submission fight is sport which is if you remember back that far is what the thread was about before you turned it into "BJJ is great, Aikido sucks" thread. In the main, Aikido is not sport.
But even so, a number of Aikido submission holds are performed on the ground so to say that the Aikidoka in the video was on the ground out of the context of Aikido is not true.
The Aikidoka's guillotine attempt for example.
I'd love to see how how good your Guillotine choke would be with one hand. I missed your edit which from a subsequent post suggested we don't practise those in aikido. Obviously we do. Apart from the obvious reason for practising chokes is that we need chokes to practise escapes from chokes.
That depends on the teams playing. Take the recent Florida St vs Duke game. Florida completely dominated Duke, and the quarterback was rarely touched. It looked like Florida was having a practice.
Again, it's a terrible comparison. Football practice resembles actual football play. Aikido practice doesn't resemble actual Aikido in play at all.
As Kirk said, Randori is not Shiai. In Randori one is practising receiving, or rolling out of a throw, and the other is practising blending of strength or force. Nothing to do with fighting as such. Surely with your huge knowledge of Aikido you can understand that.
How stupid is it to say "Aikido practice doesn't resemble actual Aikido in play at all"? Training in randori is not fighting. Training to apply nikyo is exactly as you fight, training Iriminage is exactly as you fight (Seagal's favourite), training sankyo is exactly as it is performed in say a knife disarm, the 'heavy hands' we practise is exactly the way we strike and same for kote gaeshi etc. Give me a break. :hb:
We're diverging from the point. The point is that when we enter an actual fight situation, the standing opponents clinch, and then attempt to take each other to the ground and attempt to dominate each other.
It happened in that Aikido vs MMA vid, It happened at the UFC, it's happened in numerous street fighting vids, and it happens in boxing and MMA. It happens over and over again.
They don't go to the ground because they can't. However they do clinch, constantly. I'm sure if they were allowed to do takedowns, they would.
Exactly!Which is half of the point of randori. Another important point of randori is that it's not shiai.
Why list the tiny bits that you use to enhance and not mention perhaps my main strike, the point of the elbow or the strikes to the spine or back of head, head butts, stomps, eye gouges, groin strikes etc. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.If you ever get an honest answer to this question, I will be amazed.
Simple answer; They weren't biased against traditional martial arts. They still aren't. If removing fish hooks, biting, groin shots, and hair pulling completely invalidates your martial art's effectiveness, then you're not learning much of a martial art.
Please show me on YouTube any of the above. I mean, if it's not on YouTube it doesn't exist.Bjj has spine dislocations, knee breaks, ankle breaks, wrist breaks, and moves that could potentially kill someone. If I enter a Bjj tournament that doesn't allow most of that, am I still doing Bjj? What if I use Bjj to control them, but stop short of applying the force to dislocate their spine, am I still doing Bjj?
Come on man...
Well I was talking pre MMA, style vs style. Now once these other fighters started learning the ground, learning TDD, etc then it changed the landscape from style vs style to "Mixed-Martial-Arts". GJJ isn't magic, it's just what works, along with other ground fighting arts. The is, if you don't know enough ground fighting you are going to be in trouble if you run across someone that does.Then why does anyone still learn anything else in MMA if all you need is a little Gracie magic
Correct, you did not........ I miss spoke.I don't remember using the term "master."
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
And you better equally mixnin a healthy does of striking if all you got is a ground gameWell I was talking pre MMA, style vs style. Now once these other fighters started learning the ground, learning TDD, etc then it changed the landscape from style vs style to "Mixed-Martial-Arts". GJJ isn't magic, it's just what works, along with other ground fighting arts. The is, if you don't know enough ground fighting you are going to be in trouble if you run across someone that does.
I'm not saying anything is wrong with striking styles, but IMO you had better mix in a healthy does of grappling training.
I don't think anyone has an issue with that. Many of us have benefitted from cross training even if only to better understand our own system. What the UFC and MMA pointed out in dramatic fashion was that if you really want to compete in a mixed environment against properly trained opponents you need to lift your ground skills significantly. Whether or not that requirement translates into the RBSD scene is open to conjecture. No one is saying that you don't need basic skills but I would maintain that I don't need the grappling skills of a BJJ black belt to be proficient at what I do.Well I was talking pre MMA, style vs style. Now once these other fighters started learning the ground, learning TDD, etc then it changed the landscape from style vs style to "Mixed-Martial-Arts". GJJ isn't magic, it's just what works, along with other ground fighting arts. The is, if you don't know enough ground fighting you are going to be in trouble if you run across someone that does.
I'm not saying anything is wrong with striking styles, but IMO you had better mix in a healthy does of grappling training.
GJJ uses all of these tactics as well, not to mention hey were not banned for the early UFC's.But its no longer that art. If my art uses groin shots small joint manipulation throat shots eye gouges as a portion of the art and you remove them then its no longer my art its just a fraction of the art.
GJJ uses all of these tactics as well, not to mention hey were not banned for the early UFC's.
Despite being billed as having "no rules" there were limitations on what the fighters could do, including no biting, no eye gouging and no strikes to the groin.
Non of those were illegal in the early UFC's!!!!!!!!!! You keep ignoring this fact, those were allowed!Why list the tiny bits that you use to enhance and not mention perhaps my main strike, the point of the elbow or the strikes to the spine or back of head, head butts, stomps, eye gouges, groin strikes etc. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Ballen I hate to disagree with your quote, but there is a video that CLEARLY shows some striker in UFC4 getting taken down and his only defense was to repeatedly punch the other guys Jewels.
That looked painfull.
Untrue! 100% categorically false! Proven over and over by a majority.And you better equally mixnin a healthy does of striking if all you got is a ground game
Non of those were illegal in the early UFC's!!!!!!!!!! You keep ignoring this fact, those were allowed!
Untrue! 100% categorically false! Proven over and over by a majority.