Sokeship Council, Grandmaster or NOT????

[TimoS]

Well, since George Kohler is also a registered user here, I think I'll send him a message and see if he wants to discuss this thing here

 

[kamishinkan]

Also,
If I am not mistaken, Power sensei is sending a copy to a gentleman in Japan to secondarily read and verify it. We will see.....

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

 

[kenpojujitsu]

Power sensei just posted yesterday (i think) that he in fact did translate the scroll and no matter what Kuniba sensei's son said, Kuniba Shogo sensei did write the scroll.

I can't read that, or respond, because I am blocked from e-budo.
But that goes back to what I said before.

Kuniba and his family have always maintained the Church was not a "soke". Now we have Guy Power insisting that he was.

 

[kamishinkan]

I believe that is incorrect. I believe we now have Power sensei able to read Kuniba sensei's scroll to Church sensei that says Kuniba sensei DID
acknowledge Church sensei as Soke.

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

 

[kenpojujitsu]

I believe that is incorrect. I believe we now have Power sensei able to read Kuniba sensei's scroll to Church sensei that says Kuniba sensei DID
acknowledge Church sensei as Soke.

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

But this goes to the very heart of what these "sokeship councils", including the ISHH are. You bring your documentation to them and they verify them. In this case, Guy Power acted as the "sokeship board" and verified that Church was in fact a soke. There is no way out of it.

Now if he wants to come here and say that, based on his knowledge and experience, Church was not an authentic Soke, then he may be able to salvage something out of this. And I will apologize to him.

In the mean time, once again, Mr. Power is still doing the work of the soekship council and trying to authenticate Church as a true soke. And if you are going to come back and say that he is not - then why is he sending the documents to Japan?

 

[TimoS]

then why is he sending the documents to Japan?

Err... because somebody in Japan asked to see them so he can check what is written ?

 

[kamishinkan]

That is not what Soke boards do! These guys take a person with limited martial experience WITH NO paperwork and give them paperwork as a "Soke" (yuk).
Power sensei just read a scroll that already recognized Church sensei's position as Soke of his INHERITED ART.
I doubt Power sensei will back up and say anything. He did not make any claims, just that he verified what Kuniba sensei had already said.

 

[TimoS]

He did not make any claims, just that he verified what Kuniba sensei had already said.

You know, why do we even bother ? kenpojujitsu has made up his mind, and no evidence is going sway him. He clearly has an axe to grind with Guy Power (for whatever reasons)

 

[kenpojujitsu]

The ISHH says that they do require documentation.
you yourself said they booted Rod Sacharnoski out and replaced him with Soke Petit when he provided the documentation that he got from Guy Power.
Again, this whole thing hinged on Guy Power. if he had just told Soke Petit that he was not in the soekship business, ISHH would not have his words validating the sokeship.

As for sending the documents to Japan, again, all Mr. Power has to do is step away from it and say he is not involved. Instead he is still working to further validate the sokeship.

Why not just have Soke Petit send the documents and not have his name involved in it?

 

[kamishinkan]

I don't know how to get this across.......

GUY POWER NEVER SENT ANYTHING TO ISHH!!!!!!

Maybe Power sensei is into TRUTH....and now we can prove that Kuniba sensei did sponsor Church sensei and TRUTH is worth looking into.

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

 

[kenpojujitsu]

You know, why do we even bother ? kenpojujitsu has made up his mind, and no evidence is going sway him. He clearly has an axe to grind with Guy Power (for whatever reasons)

There is no axe to grind at all. That is a ridiculous statement. Go back to e-budo where I was that Mr. Power did not have anything to do with this.
I accepted that and went away.

It was those people trying to defend Mr. Power against this "perceived attack" who came out to say that he most certainly did verify the documents. People here even defend him by saying that he did. And I agree that he did.

Now because I agree that Guy Power is in fact a reputable scholar and historian, and agree with his assertion, my words in support of him are called an "atatck", "an axe to grind", and "an agenda". That is just dumb.

Like I said, if he wants to come here and say that Church and Petit are not Soke, then I will accept that. In the mean time, he has clearly stated that they are. And I gladly accept his scholarly opinion.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

Kuniba could not "sponsor" Church to be a "soke". It is not done that way in Japan.

And again, I have to remind you: guy Power acted in the same way these soekship councils do.

Let's review the story again:

Church inherited documents and the leadership of this Chinese/Korean style. he brought his papers to Kuniba for verification.

Petit got the "Kuniba Scroll" from the Church family and brought them to Guy Power for verification. Petit then submitted the "Power documentation" to the ISHH to verify that he and not Sacharnski was the true soke.

So what is the difference here? There is none.

 

[TimoS]

In the mean time, he has clearly stated that they are.

It's just that you seem to be the only one who can find that statement...

Anyway, I sent a message to George Kohler inviting him here. Hopefully he is willing.

 

[kamishinkan]

Sort of similar......

Kuniba did not make Church a Soke....He verified Church's inheritance
and recognized his system. This is different than making someone a Soke.
Anyone can verify someones credentials, obviously the more regarded you are the more the verification holds weight.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

It's all over here and on e-budo.
Unless I am misreading something.

Are you now sayin that Power Sensei did not verify the document?

If he did not, then we are back to the begining and Kuinba correctly states that he did not issue that scroll.

 

[kamishinkan]

Timo S., I think you are correct but I think the ax is with Church sensei and his claims.

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

 

[kenpojujitsu]

Sort of similar......

Kuniba did not make Church a Soke....He verified Church's inheritance
and recognized his system. This is different than making someone a Soke.
Anyone can verify someones credentials, obviously the more regarded you are the more the verification holds weight.

Exactly, and the highly regarded Guy Power verified Church's documentation - and as said before - that's what the sokeship council does.

 

[James Kovacich]

That is not what Soke boards do! These guys take a person with limited martial experience WITH NO paperwork and give them paperwork as a "Soke" (yuk).
.

Can you give some examples?

 

[kamishinkan]

If someone reads your Rank certificate and says, yep, that is a true certificate and oh, I recognize so and so's handwriting, that does not mean that the person who read the certificate has anything to do with your rank. Only that the certificate issued was in fact issued and not forged, etc.

Authentication is just that, authentication

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

 

[TimoS]

Timo S., I think you are correct but I think the ax is with Church sensei and his claims.

Darrell Collins
Kamishinkan Dojo

Yes, I think that you're actually correct. I had already forgotten the argument in the now closed Motobu ha Shito ryu thread....