So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Kung Fu Wang]

There's no such as the best test.

Here are some "one person attack while another person defends" testing methods.

If your opponent's first 20

- punches can land on your head, or
- roundhouse kick can land on your body, or
- single leg can take you down, or
- side mount can tap you out, or
- pushes to push you outside a circle,
- ...

you lose that round, otherwise you win that round. Test for 15 round and record the result. Keep your record for 3 years and see the final result.

For example, if you want to train Sanda/Sanshou, you have to train not to be pushed off the stage.

 

[Hanzou]

If that is how you feel then why even bother with martial arts? Why not just go around being a chingon and brawling?

Because there's some things simple brawling won't teach you.

Like the Guard for example.

 

[Ironbear24]

Because there's some things simple brawling won't teach you.

Like the Guard for example.

That's the only thing it can't teach you? If that's the case get a lady of the night and practice guard that way.

 

[Hanzou]

No it's not not everyone trains to be a fighter at all and the fact you seem to think they do is very closed minded. Not everyone wants to fight people, the reason people in their 70s start training at that age isn't to kick someone's butt it's for the challenge and to get in shape and just learn and to meet new people

I never said "everyone".

However, you're being disingenuous here. Clearly people aren't spending hundreds of dollars a month to simply wear silk pajamas, dance around and learn Asian words. They're clearly seeking an elevated fighting ability.

 

[Ironbear24]

I never said "everyone".

However, you're being disingenuous here. Clearly people aren't spending hundreds of dollars a month to simply wear silk pajamas, dance around and learn Asian words. They're clearly seeking an elevated fighting ability.

Hey now, they are a mix of cotton and polyester.

 

[Hanzou]

That's the only thing it can't teach you?

I said "for example". The implication in that phrasing is that there is more than just one example.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I never said "everyone".

However, you're being disingenuous here. Clearly people aren't spending hundreds of dollars a month to simply wear silk pajamas, dance around and learn Asian words. They're clearly seeking an elevated fighting ability.

Not always, but most of the time that's true. People spend money on a lot of sports that don't teach them to fight, and there are those within MA that study for reasons other than fighting skill.

 

[marques]

Change which rules specifically? There were very few rules in the first UFC, and very few rules in other MMA style competitions, but the same styles dominate regardless.

Dominate always the styles made for / more focused on competition. That's clear.

If you stop the fights on the ground when they become 'boring', stand up styles are favoured. Just one example because I don't have many off the top of my head, in fact.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I never said "everyone".

However, you're being disingenuous here. Clearly people aren't spending hundreds of dollars a month to simply wear silk pajamas, dance around and learn Asian words. They're clearly seeking an elevated fighting ability.

Firstly who's spending hundreds? Second why do you think parents put their kids into Martial arts? So they can become amazing fighters? No to teach disipline and respect and keep fit. Some people enjoy throwing punches and kicks as a work out as opposed to running and lifting weights. That's why boxercise classes are so popular you're not learning about the boxing technique and they don't correct you on It it's just to work out. Not every single person in the world wants to fight if you do good for you but what you want isn't the same as everyone and I think you should hurry up and realise that

 

[SenseiHitman]

I think all forms of MMA are a good test. I think every healthy young martial artist should get involved in some sort of full contact fighting whether it be kickboxing shoot fighting cage fighting or whatever your style accommodates. Now, I have done them all and I can tell you none of them are like a real fight but in each case you get a chance to practice controlling fear and pushing you physical limits. All full contact fights are a thousand times safer to be in than any real street or combat situation. I mean heck you got a referee who will most likely stop the action before any real damage gets done. So I say they are all a good test but they just are not the same as real street fighting or combat. Any form of full contact or MMA fighting requires the fighter to be in top physical condition and control his fear. On that note, I have seen many fat out of shape so called gurus of martial arts say that there style is only for combat and would get them disqualified if they did what they were trained to do in the ring, when I suspect their fat *** would get dropped in the 1st 15 seconds. Then the same idiots will tell their students that being in top physical condition is unnecessary sine their style is so deadly. I feel sorry for anyone training under such a fool. So I say again any form of MMA or full contact fighting is a good test a test for your ability to control fear and to get into the best physical shape you can. None of them compare to the real deal but they all can help the student strive to be the best he can.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I never said "everyone".

May be you should just say "grappler".

Have you ever met any wrestler, Judo guy, BJJ guy who trains for "health"? I have not.

May be the grappling world is different from the striking world. In the striking world you can punch/kick into the thin air, or kick/punch on a heavy bag to get that "health" benefit. In the grappling world you just can't wrestle against a "non-existent opponent".

The grappling game is "sport" by definition.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I think all forms of MMA are a good test. I think every healthy young martial artist should get involved in some sort of full contact fighting whether it be kickboxing shoot fighting cage fighting or whatever your style accommodates. Now, I have done them all and I can tell you none of them are like a real fight but in each case you get a chance to practice controlling fear and pushing you physical limits. All full contact fights are a thousand times safer to be in than any real street or combat situation. I mean heck you got a referee who will most likely stop the action before any real damage gets done. So I say they are all a good test but they just are not the same as real street fighting or combat. Any form of full contact or MMA fighting requires the fighter to be in top physical condition and control his fear. On that note, I have seen many fat out of shape so called gurus of martial arts say that there style is only for combat and would get them disqualified if they did what they were trained to do in the ring, when I suspect their fat *** would get dropped in the 1st 15 seconds. Then the same idiots will tell their students that being in top physical condition is unnecessary sine their style is so deadly. I feel sorry for anyone training under such a fool. So I say again any form of MMA or full contact fighting is a good test a test for your ability to control fear and to get into the best physical shape you can. None of them compare to the real deal but they all can help the student strive to be the best he can.

No not every young healthy person should do it because they may not /want/ to. There's no rules when it comes to training some people don't want to come out of training bruised up and so sore they can't get up for work the next day and yes absolutely in some martial art there are moves that would get you disqualified that would end a real fight very quick. Watch any mma fight and you'll see them get even a light poke to the eyes and their on the floor holding their eyes or a light kick to the groin they're rolling around the floor holding their nuts. Fact is people on here seem to think to be good at martial arts you've got to go round fighting everyone you can if that was the requirement to do martial arts there would be a lot less people doing it

 

[JR 137]

The more I train and the more diverse people I come across in MA (diverse meaning reasons and goals for training), the more I'm convinced that fighting and SD are a state of mind. There's a mindset involved that most often determines that person's success in defending themself. I've met a lot of excellent dojo fighters who I wouldn't want backing me up when stuff hits the fan. I've met a lot of people with zero training that I'd want at my side in a heartbeat.

The dojo is a controlled environment, even though people may be training at full force/resistance. Competition is a controlled environment, albeit less predictable in what you'll encounter. Same for the cage.

Elite fighters are elite for many reasons; they're mentally tough, physically tough, and are athletically gifted. The combination of all those things makes them elite. No matter how physically tough and athletically gifted you are, if you're not mentally tough, you'll only get so far.

Full contact/fully resisted training can help with the mental toughness. It teaches people they're not made out of glass and can actually keep going even though they've been hit. They realize a punch to the stomach won't kill them. It helps them to keep moving forward despite getting hit. It teaches them to not fall down and cry in a fetal position. It also teaches them to hit with intent and hit hard. Training like that will help with the mental toughness. It doesn't matter if it's TKD, karate, kung fu, judo, jujitsu, nor anything else.

It takes a certain mindset to fight. Not everyone has it. And not everyone who does have it wants to get into the ring nor the cage to prove it. I've got better things to do with my time than train at the intensity and the duration that aspiring fighters do. I know that if I had no other choice, I could throw a pretty good beating on a lot of people. I also know there's plenty of people out there who'd easily do that same to me. And I'm smart enough to know you can't judge how much of a challenge someone will present by just looking at them.

Do not know karate works? I know I work. Would I be more or less effective if I studied any other art/style? Maybe a little bit either way, but not much. Would I be as effective if I sat around every day doing absolutely nothing? Absolutely not.

Also keep in mind that competitive fighters have time to prepare for who they're fighting, and know who, when and where. A guy walking down the street minding his own business doesn't have any of those luxuries. One minute he's having a great time chatting up some young lady at the bar and before he realizes what's going on, some tough guy is grabbing him and trying to choke him out or punch his face in.

 

[drop bear]

So nobody can come up with a better test?

Or did i miss a post somewhere.

I mean that just kind of looked like it was the point of the thread. And whe have had two pages of posts so far.

 

[SenseiHitman]

No not every young healthy person should do it because they may not /want/ to. There's no rules when it comes to training some people don't want to come out of training bruised up and so sore they can't get up for work the next day and yes absolutely in some martial art there are moves that would get you disqualified that would end a real fight very quick. Watch any mma fight and you'll see them get even a light poke to the eyes and their on the floor holding their eyes or a light kick to the groin they're rolling around the floor holding their nuts. Fact is people on here seem to think to be good at martial arts you've got to go round fighting everyone you can if that was the requirement to do martial arts there would be a lot less people doing it

The reason I feel it is a good idea is based on my own experience. It gave me a way to work on controlling my fear of fighting and it gave me a workout ethic that has survived with me to this day. I am 48 years old and I am proud to say I am in better shape then most men in their 20s. Yes, we all know how much it hurts to get poked in the eyes or kicked in the groin, those are a couple of the favorite targets that many so called self defense gurus claim would lead them to victory in the street over an MMA fighter. As if they = MMA fighters dont know this super secret technique. What if they do it to you first? If you are not fit to fight that poke to the eye or kick to the groin better land just right or its over. Another guru getting body slammed on the ground.

 

[SenseiHitman]

So nobody can come up with a better test?

Or did i miss a post somewhere.

No better test that I know of MMA is a good test.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So nobody can come up with a better test?

Or did i miss a post somewhere.

I mean that just kind of looked like it was the point of the thread. And whe have had two pages of posts so far.

I started from the premise that there's no need for a "better" test. No test will ever be perfect, and MMA is a pretty good test of effectiveness for those interested in going that route.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The reason I feel it is a good idea is based on my own experience. It gave me a way to work on controlling my fear of fighting and it gave me a workout ethic that has survived with me to this day. I am 48 years old and I am proud to say I am in better shape then most men in their 20s. Yes, we all know how much it hurts to get poked in the eyes or kicked in the groin, those are a couple of the favorite targets that many so called self defense gurus claim would lead them to victory in the street over an MMA fighter. As if they = MMA fighters dont know this super secret technique. What if they do it to you first? If you are not fit to fight that poke to the eye or kick to the groin better land just right or its over. Another guru getting body slammed on the ground.

You're comparing competitive athletes who train like monsters to people often well past their prime and who often have a full-time job in addition to teaching. They're not training for MMA competition, so why even talk about their ability to fight in MMA?

 

[drop bear]

I started from the premise that there's no need for a "better" test. No test will ever be perfect, and MMA is a pretty good test of effectiveness for those interested in going that route.

And that route you mean martial arts.

Why do you think there is no need for a better test?

I was pretty sure a japanese game show would at least have come up with something.

 

[Hanzou]

Not always, but most of the time that's true. People spend money on a lot of sports that don't teach them to fight, and there are those within MA that study for reasons other than fighting skill.

Yes, but the main reason people enter martial arts is to feel less worried about walking down the street, or to stop the school yard bully from messing with them.

Those skills require fighting ability.