Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?

[MJS]

That's the exact response I was going to put in. I think everyone should be active in MMA..not in the sport sense, but in the literal sense.

All it means is that 2 or more traditional arts are being practiced to "fill in the gaps" so to speak. I train in TKD, which is striking...I would love to train in any form of JJ or Judo, which prepares the student for ground combat.

I think that the OP has the literal term of mixed martial arts confused with the sport form of MMA...in which case, sport MMA is great for alive training and getting you into shape, but doesn't do as much for the student as literal MMA will.

And, of course, taking more than 1 traditional art is always a plus...the more knowledge, the better.

Hi Brandon.

No, I don't feel that I have confused the two. IMO, it should be pretty clear as to the differences. I believe I said in my second post, I've taken MMA ideas, and added them to my training. Sure, this is taking a sport concept, and making it more applicable to a self defense point of view.

 

[MJS]

I respectfully disagree on the traditional comment made at the beginning: My Shaolin master use to make us fight (not spar) with our styles every day at full contact with him and the other seniors. When I moved from my Ying Jow style to the Wudan style, at one time on film I sparred my master for over 4 hours getting hit for real, just short of breaking everything so I could continue.....every Tuesday I spar a Kung fu brother who is also a 3rd degree dan in Aikido and a 2nd degree dan in Jujitsu besides his training in kung fu, and we hit for real for an hour and a half. My ying jow brother and I in Atlanta fight every time we see each other, in front of his students or mine, or in front of our Ying jow master, and the comment has been made that it looks like we hate each other. In our Yang tai chi as well, under Jeff Bolt, we use to do moving and stationary push hands with jing and silk reeling.

Ahh, yes, the good ol' days. Personally, I like the hard training, but unfortunately, in todays world, schools like that are usually substituted by ones that need to change due to people not wanting that type of training, the fear of lawsuits, etc. Now, there are still schools like that, the hardcore ones, but I'd imagine those people are the ones that want that type of training. They're not going to leave or cry over a bump or bruise.

I also wrestled in high school and some in college and of course that was full contact. I do not believe MMA invented or propagated this. In fact, I believe only in America has this become a phenomena, due to point fighting, continuous fighting, and worries over lawsuits recently for contact though a waiver is signed. When I trained in Hong kong, it was never light contact. As well, my masters always told me to punch or kick at full speed to demonstrate a defense and responsive offensive movement, saying the student did not know the reality of it if it was not a real attack.

Couldn't agree more, especially with the bold part.

I respect greatly the MMA and UFC fighters, and their conditioning, but it is like, and I mean no offense here, Gracie fighters claiming they invented jujitsu. By its name, and historical record shows, the art was invented and propagated in Japan. MMA are not the first to cross train, and I would be really interested to know what MMA fighters practice once they retire and can no longer do what they do......Thai fighters are incredible fighters but only until a certain age until they are beaten down. To all the MMA fighters here, once you retire or age somewhat (like my age of 50, LOL), do you still attempt the intense body training, ground fighting, and other training necessary for those days?

Ya know, I've wondered the same thing.

I will say again, it is up to the individual martial artist, and his/her teacher, to care enough to learn to fight for real, self-defense, and be able to delineate between what is real and what is not. I cannot take the beatings I use to be able to in my Shaolin fighting days, but the residual is I can still take pain, train when others cannot, and enjoy the weekly fights with my classmates. However, I also enjoy the tai chi and the peaceful meditation...LOL!!

Good points. IMO though, some people can't figure out what is real and what is not, yet they'll argue their point 'til they're blue in the face, even when presented with a list of facts.

 

[MJS]

Great post.

Neither traditional martial arts nor MMA will inherently prepare you for real world self defense, the way many people practice them.

Each has strengths -- but neither are enough by themselves UNLESS they are trained with a mindset for real self defense. You can find this mindset and training approach in either -- or you can add it to your own training.

Agreed. Sadly though, many have those blinders on and refuse to see anything else. Those are the ones that think because this person said so, it'll work.

 

[MattJ]

All it means is that 2 or more traditional arts are being practiced to "fill in the gaps" so to speak.

That description would be closer to "mixed-styles" than MMA, IMHO.

The synergistic model of training for combat in all ranges (MMA) is distinctly different from training multiple, seperate arts like TKD + judo. You can do striking and grappling seperately, and have a hard time mixing them together. MMA accounts for training all ranges simultaneously - an important difference. And one not easily recognized unless you have done it, LOL. (not trying to be condescending -I am not a MMAer).

 

[Tez3]

What 'old' fighters do.... http://www.mat-magazine.com/mat/content/view/951/20/

Skips retured now as a fighter and doesn't train fighters anymore but still does his thing as a personal trainer.

As I said before there are only a few people who are full time MMA fighters the rest of us carry on just the same as TMAers of the same age!!

 

[BrandonLucas]

That description would be closer to "mixed-styles" than MMA, IMHO.

The synergistic model of training for combat in all ranges (MMA) is distinctly different from training multiple, seperate arts like TKD + judo. You can do striking and grappling seperately, and have a hard time mixing them together. MMA accounts for training all ranges simultaneously - an important difference. And one not easily recognized unless you have done it, LOL. (not trying to be condescending -I am not a MMAer).

I agree and disagree at the same time.

I think what we see on television, as Tez is referring to, is the "new" MMA...almost a whole other style of fighting that combines tested techniques from multiple arts that is best suited for competition.

What I refer to as MMA is "mixed martial arts". Which, as you stated, is basically the mixing of styles. So, in the sense that I'm referring to, they are one and the same.

So, if we're talking about mixing Judo, TKD, and JKD, then, by my way of thinking, this would be MMA for SD.

However, someone could still take the same arts, mix them together, and only use the techniques that are acceptable within a competition ruleset, and this would still be MMA...but the newer MMA.

So, really, I don't think anyone's wrong in what they're saying at all...

Basically, I think that if someone were to combine more than 1 art, they would be better off than only having been trained in 1 art exclusively...and preferably have them train in striking and grappling.

 

[MattJ]

So, in the sense that I'm referring to, they are one and the same.

Well, this is where we disagree. Mixing disparate-range styles independantly is definitely not the same thing as learning them in a homogenous fashion. Mixed-styles is what I have done. They seem similar, but the nature of the training is actually very different -and so are the results. At least for me, LOL. Learning to avoid strikes and learning to defend the mount are different, and learning to avoid strikes while mounted is different yet. If you don't mix the two simultaneously, you really aren't doing MMA.

MHO.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Well, this is where we disagree. Mixing disparate-range styles independantly is definitely not the same thing as learning them in a homogenous fashion. Mixed-styles is what I have done. They seem similar, but the nature of the training is actually very different -and so are the results. At least for me, LOL. Learning to avoid strikes and learning to defend the mount are different, and learning to avoid strikes while mounted is different yet. If you don't mix the two simultaneously, you really aren't doing MMA.

MHO.

But aren't each of these defenses taught in seperate arts? Defending strikes is taught in any striking art, and defending the mount is taught in grappling arts. And defending strikes while mounted should be taught in grappling arts as well, correct?

So, if you combine the knowledge of the strking arts and grappling arts, wouldn't that result in a "mixed martial art"?

I don't know...maybe I'm missing something here. I think that maybe it all depends on the training.

 

[MattJ]

And defending strikes while mounted should be taught in grappling arts as well, correct?

Surprisingly, the answer is often no or not very often. Wrestling, Judo and Sambo do so rarely, AFAIK. BJJ often does not do much, either.

So, if you combine the knowledge of the strking arts and grappling arts, wouldn't that result in a "mixed martial art"?

I don't know...maybe I'm missing something here. I think that maybe it all depends on the training.

Yes, I agree! It does depend on the training. It only results in MMA if they actually combine them. Please understand, I'm not denigrating mixing styles - hell, I do it. It's hard to explain, and TBH, I couldn't understand the difference myself for a while. Sorry for bad explanation.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Surprisingly, the answer is often no or not very often. Wrestling, Judo and Sambo do so rarely, AFAIK. BJJ often does not do much, either.



Yes, I agree! It does depend on the training. It only results in MMA if they actually combine them. Please understand, I'm not denigrating mixing styles - hell, I do it. It's hard to explain, and TBH, I couldn't understand the difference myself for a while. Sorry for bad explanation.

Well, the first thing I should probably mention is that the only experience I have in grappling is highschool wrestling, so I don't have any facts on the grappling arts...I've sparred people who practice BJJ a couple of times, but I've never had the opportunity to actually take a real class.

I think I know what you're getting at, though, as far as what you're talking about. It really is hard to explain in words, but I think I follow what you're saying. It would probably be easier to understand if I were to actually crosstrain in a grappling art, so that I could see the difference in combining arts and culling from different arts.