SKK Combos and Various Attacks

[SK101]

Going back to 6. How about against slashing knife to neck? Lean back heavily and deliver FrBlKick to solar plexus or ribs?

 

[Hand Sword]

Going back to 6. How about against slashing knife to neck? Lean back heavily and deliver FrBlKick to solar plexus or ribs?

I wouldn't do that. Leaning your body and weight back takes the power out of your kick going forward. Plus if they are lunginging in, your impact will knock you backward, off balance. It could be messy for you.

Probably better for a finger pointing at your face and threatening words, then, slap block and kick. Or something along those lines. Though, at one time, I do remember it being taught like Kajukenbo's #1 technique.

 

[JTKenpo]

Though, at one time, I do remember it being taught like Kajukenbo's #1 technique.

I would agree that #6 in skk probably came from #1 in Kajukenbo.

 

[SK101]

David can I ask why you seem to use the solar plexus as the first shot rather than the groin or the knee? Is it your preference, your instructors preference and/or is there a specific reason you are not targeting low? I ask because on your previous posts it seems that you prefer targeting the solar plexus on combos that I have always heard going low to knee or groin.

I also have solar plex shots on 6,8,9,12,14. My guess on 6 & 12 is those who are kicking to the groin are using some extra footwork or blocking to move them offline. I have no footwork prior to the initial kick so a kick to the groin on that interpretation would have my opponent falling on me on those two atleast. 8,9,14 could probably be just 1st kick to the groin without any change in the initial movement.

 

[RevIV]

I would agree that #6 in skk probably came from #1 in Kajukenbo.

So many things... where is Matt when I need him..
we are talking about a front ball kick here right? found in almost any system? A scared person with no training what so ever can at least be scared into kicking someone. Plus I remember arguements back in the day when people compared our combos to Kajukenbo and that started up a fun storm... you know kindof like the one we had 2 weeks ago when we lost power for 5 days.. yeah, real fun.
So yes, I see that #6 has a move like in Kaju. but I feel that it really is just one of the no brainer moves that you want to teach first because its easy and will help the student to develop more adv. techniques later.
Justin, this is not aimed at you just qouted you.

 

[SK101]

What number are we on, 12?

I like the idea of using as retreating (redeployment) technique. If you are going to move away from your opponent might as well throw out the kicks in case they charge. I wouldn't step the feet into a pinetree after the 1st kick. I would place the foot into a left half moon facing 5 or 6 O'Clock then do the back kick and spin.

On that note the interpretation Professor I shows on his video for the last two kicks in No Nienglis(Left outer crescent then right roundhouse) he does while retreating. I like that interpretation since you have the retreating blocks toward the beginning of the form. It ties in a theme of learning to hit while you are moving away. Then if you compare that to southern nienglis you have the long section of retreating while blocking using the side leaning stances.

My son likes to practice 12 with a golden rooster kick(the kick done with a back fist in Shou tong kwok) after the front ball kick. You land in side horse stance after front kick. It keeps you from turning your back to the opponent and gives him a place besides STK to practice that kick.

Going back to 7 you can use a right handed 7 against a left roundhouse.

 

[14 Kempo]

I also have solar plex shots on 6,8,9,12,14. My guess on 6 & 12 is those who are kicking to the groin are using some extra footwork or blocking to move them offline. I have no footwork prior to the initial kick so a kick to the groin on that interpretation would have my opponent falling on me on those two atleast. 8,9,14 could probably be just 1st kick to the groin without any change in the initial movement.

The kick doesn't necessarily need to be targeted to the groin, I see your point there, however, the kick will stop an attacker if targeted to the pelvis or bladder area as well. I some cases, the kick can be to the shin or knee. There are many times that the time is not available to get the kick to the dolar plexus without completely jamming yourself. Think about #6 against a left jab, can it be done? I say yes, use the forward leg to deliver a kick the the shin or knee, mostly as a check, but a low level kick can take the juice out of the jab. Yes, you may still get hit, it's a fight, expect it. Get hit with a weakened punch and besides the low kick/check normally brings your opponents head downwatd and within striking range, not a place they want to be in an off-balanced state. Just another thought added to all the others I've read.

 

[SK101]

Our #9 is a little shorter.

We do the same block/grab wit the left hand, and front ball kick to SP.
After the kick we return the right foot into a crossover (twist stance), then side thrust kick to floating ribs, while with our right hand we use a rising tiger mouth strike to the wrist, knocking their arm straigh upwards. This elongates and their right side making it more vulnerable to the kick.

That's all, 2 kicks. but I do like the idea of flowing into a lock flow, more fun for class :whip:

that's interesting Dave your 9 is what is often shown as 6&7 done one right after the other. You have the added block grab as 9 has and later the tiger's mouth lifting the wrist, but the middle section is exactly the 6 to 7 concept.

 

[JTKenpo]

So many things... where is Matt when I need him..
we are talking about a front ball kick here right? found in almost any system? A scared person with no training what so ever can at least be scared into kicking someone. Plus I remember arguements back in the day when people compared our combos to Kajukenbo and that started up a fun storm... you know kindof like the one we had 2 weeks ago when we lost power for 5 days.. yeah, real fun.
So yes, I see that #6 has a move like in Kaju. but I feel that it really is just one of the no brainer moves that you want to teach first because its easy and will help the student to develop more adv. techniques later.
Justin, this is not aimed at you just qouted you.

No harm no foul and to be honest I agree with you.

 

[JTKenpo]

I also have solar plex shots on 6,8,9,12,14. My guess on 6 & 12 is those who are kicking to the groin are using some extra footwork or blocking to move them offline. I have no footwork prior to the initial kick so a kick to the groin on that interpretation would have my opponent falling on me on those two atleast. 8,9,14 could probably be just 1st kick to the groin without any change in the initial movement.

One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that most people don't attack with a step through punch, and if they are stepping through they have to plant before they throw the punch for it to be effective so why wait, hit them in transition.

 

[DavidCC]

One thing that has to be taken into consideration is that most people don't attack with a step through punch, and if they are stepping through they have to plant before they throw the punch for it to be effective so why wait, hit them in transition.

Our typical class punch attack we train against is a step-after haymaker, wherein the right foot starts in the rear, and the momentum of throwing that right hand drags the right foot forward.

 

[JTKenpo]

Our typical class punch attack we train against is a step-after haymaker, wherein the right foot starts in the rear, and the momentum of throwing that right hand drags the right foot forward.

no problem with that, still leaves the groin open which was my point. Not saying strikes to the solor plexus are wrong in these combos.

 

[DavidCC]

Generally we have taught SP for most applications, with the thought that if you can kick high enough and accurately enough to get that, you can modify the target (ribs, groin etc) if needed.

However lately we have been tightening that up a bit (teaching specific targets w/o the variation) given the different body reactions from different targets, at least for our beginner students - senior students account for circumstances and reactions.

but what I am getting at is that we don't always teach the SP any more. many of our techs that had used the SP are now targeted at the top of the pelvic bone (CV3, CV4) depending on the reaction we want for that particular tecnique...

 

[Hand Sword]

So many things... where is Matt when I need him..
we are talking about a front ball kick here right? found in almost any system? A scared person with no training what so ever can at least be scared into kicking someone. Plus I remember arguements back in the day when people compared our combos to Kajukenbo and that started up a fun storm... you know kindof like the one we had 2 weeks ago when we lost power for 5 days.. yeah, real fun.
So yes, I see that #6 has a move like in Kaju. but I feel that it really is just one of the no brainer moves that you want to teach first because its easy and will help the student to develop more adv. techniques later.
Justin, this is not aimed at you just qouted you.

For us back then it was a combination of both. As it was at one time taught exactly as Kajukenbo's #1 technique (carried over probably from the lineage) I remember the change to what it is recognized as now. As was explained, it was being simplified in order to "spoon feed" the people looking to join. Kicking, blocking, and striking the bicep all at once was thought to be too difficult and it was made easier. :asian:

 

[punisher73]

For us back then it was a combination of both. As it was at one time taught exactly as Kajukenbo's #1 technique (carried over probably from the lineage) I remember the change to what it is recognized as now. As was explained, it was being simplified in order to "spoon feed" the people looking to join. Kicking, blocking, and striking the bicep all at once was thought to be too difficult and it was made easier. :asian:

I don't see #6 as a "simplified" version of Kajukenbo's punch counter #1 at all. They may have taught #1, but I would say it is more accurate to say that the new SKK #6 REPLACED the previous. All of the concepts and ideas of Kajukenbo's #1 are not there in the current #6 and it does not resemble it in anyway.

From your post I wasn't clear if you just meant that the system was simplified and the change was made or the technique was simplified and turned into the #6. I would be interested in hearing more though, I like the historical roots stories of how things progressed. In this case who/when made the change?

 

[SK101]

no problem with that, still leaves the groin open which was my point. Not saying strikes to the solor plexus are wrong in these combos.

If the left leg is forward instead of right you may very well be changing targets. You also have the jab, which doesn't change targets necessarily, however you have to deal with the timing difference.

That being said anyone tried left handed 3 on a right handed cross punch attack? It may well be that any outside technique can be varied to left handed for right crosses. I will try that this weekend.

 

[14 Kempo]

If the left leg is forward instead of right you may very well be changing targets. You also have the jab, which doesn't change targets necessarily, however you have to deal with the timing difference.

That being said anyone tried left handed 3 on a right handed cross punch attack? It may well be that any outside technique can be varied to left handed for right crosses. I will try that this weekend.

Yes, I've done it. It works, but as with any technique that moves you to the inside, well, need to deal with follow-ups

 

[Hand Sword]

I don't see #6 as a "simplified" version of Kajukenbo's punch counter #1 at all. They may have taught #1, but I would say it is more accurate to say that the new SKK #6 REPLACED the previous. All of the concepts and ideas of Kajukenbo's #1 are not there in the current #6 and it does not resemble it in anyway.

It doesn't? Let's see...Front kick? Yep. Both have it. Brush Block. Yep both have it. The only difference is Kaju's hammer to the bicep. So they are identical in everyway except for that. As, I said, that's how we taught #6 origially--exactly like Kaju's #1. And the reason it was dropped, or changed was given by what I said- "public friendly" basically.

From your post I wasn't clear if you just meant that the system was simplified and the change was made or the technique was simplified and turned into the #6. I would be interested in hearing more though, I like the historical roots stories of how things progressed. In this case who/when made the change?

I didn't say anything about a system, just this specific technique. Overall, though, Mr. Villari did order things eased back, with the explanation of "spoon feeding" being used a lot. So, my guess is the order came from him at the time, as he was more involved.

 

[punisher73]

It doesn't? Let's see...Front kick? Yep. Both have it. Brush Block. Yep both have it. The only difference is Kaju's hammer to the bicep. So they are identical in everyway except for that. As, I said, that's how we taught #6 origially--exactly like Kaju's #1. And the reason it was dropped, or changed was given by what I said- "public friendly" basically.



I didn't say anything about a system, just this specific technique. Overall, though, Mr. Villari did order things eased back, with the explanation of "spoon feeding" being used a lot. So, my guess is the order came from him at the time, as he was more involved.

I can see your point if #6 has the brush block, the way I have seen and learned #6 is JUST the front ball kick and then cover out. There is no hand motions at all. That was why I made my post about it being a replacement and not a simplification. The version you cited would be a simplified Kajukenbo #1.

That was my question, I wasn't sure your meaning. I didn't know if just certain DM's were simplified by Villari or if you meant alot of the material was simplified for "commercial use". What other changes did you observe with the DM's?

 

[Hand Sword]

Through the years with Villari's SKK, I saw plenty of changes. I had forms and combo's changed a few times. Especially when west coast instructors came in from Master Mattera's side. As for the DM's, I'm not familiar with them. I know they must have been overhauled too.

(Don't feel bad about your version of #6, I had that as one of my few changes too.-lol.)

I guess that's the problem overall--standardazation of SKK. When it was just Villari related, the changes were dojo to dojo, instructor to instructor.