Shaolin Kenpo/Kempo

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Check out their website:

http://www.shaolinkenpo.com/

I've been to a couple of ATAMA seminars at Ralph Castro's place near San Francisco. He is a great instructor with many great Black Belts under him (including his kids and Rick Alemany). To me, Katas seem more Chinese than Parker's numbered sets. Techniques are done a lot faster with less contact.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by John Bishop
When a renowed instructor dies, the number of students he taught usually increases by 4 times.

I'm surely going to be quoting this in the future.

As to Fred Villari, his name has indeed been synonymous with McDojos to me--fairly or unfairly, I cannot say.

 

[Zoran]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Check out their website:

http://www.shaolinkenpo.com/

I've been to a couple of ATAMA seminars at Ralph Castro's place near San Francisco. He is a great instructor with many great Black Belts under him (including his kids and Rick Alemany). To me, Katas seem more Chinese than Parker's numbered sets. Techniques are done a lot faster with less contact.

Their FAQ makes a destinction and explains some of the misconceptions at http://www.shaolinkenpo.com/faqs.htm . Check out FAQ3

Q 3: Is Shaolin Kenpo the same as kempo, kenpo, kempo karate, Shaolin Kempo Karate, or American Kenpo Karate?

A: Some generic terms broadly identify a wide range of historically-related martial arts. Such terms include kempo and kenpo. On the other hand, Shaolin Kenpo, American Kenpo Karate, and Shaolin Kempo Karate are three of the many examples of specific, distinctive, and governed systems of martial arts.

"Shaolin Kenpo" is the name of the art developed by Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro (also called Shaolin Kenpo Karate, and Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo). On the other hand, "Shaolin Kempo Karate" was developed by Grand Master Fred Villari, while "American Kenpo Karate" was developed by the late Grand Master Ed Parker. Both Shaolin Kenpo and Shaolin Kempo Karate incorporated the name 'Shaolin' to acknowledge their inclusion of martial arts techniques whose origin was the Shaolin Temple in China.

[ The following names are trademark property of Ralph Castro: "Shaolin Kenpo", "Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo", "Shaolin Kenpo Karate", "International Shaolin Kenpo Association". In addition, the 'Shaolin Kenpo (fist)' design, the 'tiger' design, the 'dragon' design (examples of images can be found at http://www.ShaolinKenpo.com/index.html), and the 'Ralph Castro's Shaolin Kenpo (with fist)' design, (example of image can be found at http://www.ShaolinKenpo.com/rcsk.htm) are trademark property of Ralph Castro. - All Rights Reserved. ]

All three arts have distinguished founders and lineages. As to lineage, Ralph Castro was a student of the late Great Grandmaster William Kwai Sun Chow. (Also known as 'Professor' Chow, he was the first Great Grandmaster of Shaolin Kenpo). Ed Parker was an earlier student of Professor Chow. We understand Fred Villari was a student of Nick Cerio, who was a student of George Pesare, who was a student of Sonny Gascon, who was a student of Adriano Emperado [Kajukenbo], who was also an early student of Professor Chow.

An event that confuses many today, some years ago a few martial artists broke away from the (Villari) Shaolin Kempo Karate organization. Later, some of their students misspelled the name of the (Villari) art their teachers once studied -- They misspelled it with an 'n' rather than 'm', such as Shaolin 'Kenpo' Karate, or sometimes even shortened it further to Shaolin 'Kenpo'.

Today, a few still innocently propagate this same unfortunate spelling error that was first made by their seniors. They give the impression, by misspelling the name this way, that they practice the art of (Ralph Castro's) Shaolin Kenpo. In fact, they have no connection to Shaolin Kenpo and are not from the lineage of Great Grandmaster Castro. Rather, they use the name of his art without permission. They should investigate their history and lineage, and correct their error out of respect for their lineage.

True for many martial arts styles, occasional name and style confusions (and resulting rank confusions) might ordinarily make it difficult to determine who ARE the teachers and practitioners of the art of Shaolin Kenpo. However, the International Shaolin Kenpo Association is responsible for governing Shaolin Kenpo. It has the authority to decide the status of claims about any individual's rank in Shaolin Kenpo, and the status or sanction of any school.

An irritation more often found in the larger martial arts systems is, a small number of practitioners of generic or mixed kenpo/kempo techniques (and a few, interestingly, had teachers in Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro's extensive lineage) knowingly make false claims about earning a high rank in Shaolin Kenpo. They damage Shaolin Kenpo and they dishonor themselves and their teachers. They degrade their own current organization or school with their false claims.

This Association clearly identifies the Shaolin Kenpo black belts, the instructors, and the Shaolin Kenpo schools. Historically, through recognition within the Shaolin Kenpo ranks, and more recently, through public recognition in these pages of www.ShaolinKenpo.com, the Association is quick to honor valid achievements.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hello to all, I think I can help out on this discussion. Pknox, you are pretty much on track from what I know and Sigung Bishop hit the nail on the head with his statement. The only documented instructor of Fred Villari is Nick Cerio. Villari's system up to around 2nd dan teaches the Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu that Cerio learned from Gm. S. George Pesare prior to the advent of Nick Cerio's Kenpo (1974). The idea of adding #1 Pinan (Taikyoku shodan) came from Mr. Pesare when Mr. Cerio was still training there. Later, after Cerio left he added pinans 2-5. Hansuki, not spelled Honsuki, was a 'chosen' form of Master Bill Chun Sr. It was not mean't to be a ranking form. In other words, just for an example: you could have five black belts in Master Chun's system and only two of them could have Hansuki. Master Bill Chun Jr. can verify this. Master Chun chose Nick Cerio to teach the form to. Cerio chose his brother Frank to teach it to. When Cerio went to Florida for a period, Mr. Villari was taught this form by Frank Cerio, who was falsely under the impression it was okayed by his brother. This was not the case and the Cerios had a 'blowout' over this. Also, the Hansuki of the Villari system has been altered from its original state. Hansuki in Nick Cerio's Kenpo renamed Cat Form#5 has also been altered from original state. Cerio, contrary to what has been posted on certain websites also taught Villari somewhere around 35 numerical combinations when he left him. So, essentailly, the Villari system up to Hansuki along with the combinations and other techniques was Professor Cerio's earlier system of Karazenpo. After that Mr. Villari turns toward a more 'Chinese' flavor with his art and it becomes radically different. This starts with Sho Tung Kwok-the first of the Chinese forms he created after Hansuki. When Mr. Cerio trained with Professor Chow he brought Bill Marcierelli (spelling may be off) with him, not Fred Villari. Mr. Cerio did train for a period of time with Mr. Ed Parker, during these sessions Cerio did take Villari with him, for how many sessions, I do not know. I, too, do not agree with Mr. Villari on certain issues but to be fair and balanced Mr. Cerio did say he was a damn good black belt. Again, like the above posts stated there are some serious issues in the direction he took his organization (Villari). Here's the thing on the birth of the term-"McDojo". Back in a May, 1975 issue of Black Belt magazine, they did an indepth interview with Fred Villari. This was supposed to be a positive interview and all in all it was. Look it up if you can. However, the writer mentioned that, and I'm going to paraphrase because I'm solely going by memory: that like Mc Donald's you can see a United Studio of Self Defense (this was the original name of the chain, now Charles Mattera has taken it) in many towns and cities the meaning was supposed to be you can get quality instruction and learn good martial arts with cheap money (tuition was very affordable at this time), Villari was very upset because everyone took it to be a demeaning statement, cheap martial arts, etc. Black Belt apologized to Villari and from what I recall and I still believe I have the magazine, wrote a rebuttal of sorts to make ammends. Villari threatened a law suit. Anyway, that's how that all started. To this day, the Villari schools are a hit or miss. You can get an excellent instructor and do extremely well or not so well, if you get my drift. Pknox is again correct in saying that the system is a fine system of kempo but again, as falsely mentioned on the Villari website he did not create the four ways of fighting. That is from his Karazenpo training which came from Kajukenbo but not even Kajukenbo came up with it first. Go on the Tracy website and look for the break down, page by page, of James Mitose's book, What is Self Defense? (Kenpo Jui Jitsu) which was written in 1947 and published in 1953. Mitose explains the four ways of fighting exactly as presented on the Villari website. My insights have come from direct knowledge and personal conversations. I started my training in 1973. I had the opportunity to train under Craig Seavey, Fred Villari, Nick Cerio and S. George Pesare. By the way, when I trained with Villari back in the 70's there was a picture in the dojo of Professor Chow and one of Fred Villari in a black gi in the tiger kneeling posture stance from Hansuki. Before each class we would have to bow to Master Villari and then bow to Professor Chow who we were told was Mr. Villari's instructor. There was never a mention of Mr. Cerio. I ended up owning two of his schools before I got disgruntled at the direction the organization was heading and went independant and I still have that picture of Professor Chow. From what I was told back then Villari did indeed go to Hawaii but, again, not with Cerio. He did get to meet with Professor Chow. He did get possession of this signed picture of Professor Chow (I heard an account of how this happened but I cannot verify it, so I don't want to say something I can't back up), in a private e-mail I will explain). Anyhow, it got back to Chow that his picture was up in all the Villari schools and he was being passed off as his instructor. Chow got it back to Villari, what was said I do not know or by whom but I can tell you this, all the Villari instructors were told to take down the pictures forthwith! One other thing before closing. There was only one man who kept this system going from its originally roots with Sijo Victor "Sonny" Gascon since its inception in 1960, it's wasn't Mr. Cerio nor Fred Villari and actually not even, in all due respect, Mr. Gascon, but Gm. S. George Pesare whom I've had the priviledge of knowing since 1978, and later help spreading it in Witchita, Kansas, his first black belt, Gm. Roger Carpenter. This fact stands undisputed even though sometimes you would think they are the unsung heroes. Remember: No George Pesare-No Nick Cerio, etc., etc. down the lineage. If I remember anything else I'll post again. If you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them. Respectfully submitted.

 

[pknox]

Thank you, Joe - very interesting stuff, and from a guy who has obviously been there.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
Hansuki, not spelled Honsuki, was a 'chosen' form of Master Bill Chun Sr. It was not mean't to be a ranking form. In other words, just for an example: you could have five black belts in Master Chun's system and only two of them could have Hansuki. Master Bill Chun Jr. can verify this.

does a student learn this BEFORE or AFTER obtaining a BB???

Mr. Villari was taught this form by Frank Cerio, who was falsely under the impression it was okayed by his brother. This was not the case and the Cerios had a 'blowout' over this.

'blowout' was all about why Frank taught Villari Hansuki???? Yes ???

United Studio of Self Defense (now Charles Mattera has taken it)

this is really funny because i asked my friend about this and he said you will see a picture of prof chow, nick cerios, and charles mattera at USSD's head quarter when you go there.

After seeing this picture, you can see that Charles doesn't want people to know that his *teacher* was Villari

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude

this is really funny because i asked my friend about this and he said you will see a picture of prof chow, nick cerios, and charles mattera at USSD's head quarter when you go there.

After seeing this picture, you can see that Charles doesn't want people to know that his *teacher* was Villari

if you don't have an opportunity to go to USSD's headquarter, click below link and you will see NO picture of Villari EXCEPT chow, nick cerio, and charles

http://www.ussd.com/lineage.asp

the picture speaks for itself

 

[Karazenpo]

pknox, you're very welcome. CoolKempo, yes the form is a chosen form given only to black belts. It is not used for ranking however. For example, say their were five Goshinjitsu Kai black belts of the same degree. One or two may have been 'chosen' by Master Chun to have this form for his own personal reasons. I know the variations of this form and in all other kempo systems I know of, it is used as a requirement of the ranking system, not so in Goshinjitsu Kai.
Yes, the 'blowout' was over his brother giving the form to Mr. V. without his permission. Professor Cerio was very upset over this. This info. came from him personally to me, so there's no heresay. I got it straight from the horse's mouth, as they say.
Gm. Mattera started with Gm. Villari and stayed with him until 7th dan. Mr. Mattera received his 8th dan from Professor Cerio. I, myself, and it's just my opinion but a strong one, that one should always acknowledge those who gave you your identity or foundation in the arts. I always acknowledge who brought me to black belt and who tested me for black belt. Hanshi Craig Seavey, current 9th dan and co-head of Nick Cerio's Kenpo, signed me up, gave me my first lesson and groomed me to black belt. he gave me my identity. He sponsored me for my test. At the time of my test on January 7, 1977, Mr. Seavey was the chief instructor of Fred Villari's United Studios of Self Defense in Framingham, Mass. It was policy that all black belts were to be tested by Mr. Villari personally in Dedham, Ma after being 'sponsored' by an instructor of a studio within the organization. I have no problem saying I was tested by Mr. Villari even though we have some political differences. It happens, but it should no way cut my original ties to him and I will say this about him. I don't know how it is now, but when I went for my test it was an all day affair (8 hours) and there was much heavy contact to put it mildly. Some flunked the test and left with their brown belts. Others were given 'honorary' black belts which mean't they were still technically brown and had to come back at a future date and take the portion of the test they were weak on over again to earn the shodan rank. So, like I said, whether you are upset with your original intructor or not, that should in no way influence you to the point where you cut him/her out of your lineage-it's just not right! Respectfully submitted.

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by John Bishop

When a renowed instructor dies, the number of students he taught usually increases by 4 times.
Too bad he's no longer around to point out the liars.

I guess we're just gunna to have to embark on a quest to the mountains of Tebet to uncover the fabled secret of immortality that lies in the cave of the dragon beyond the forest of the tiger. That way we can presverve the WHOLE truth that ALL of our current Masters, Senior Masters, Grandmasters, and Great Grandmasters, and Senior Grandmasters are telling us these days.

:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

So, like I said, whether you are upset with your original intructor or not, that should in no way influence you to the point where you cut him/her out of your lineage-it's just not right!

Well Said.
It would be nice if everyone held to this idea.
Politics aside and even being in a different art altogeather I still acknowledge my first formal instructor.

 

[teej]

I was in Hawaii several weeks before Professor Chow passed away. I did not get to meet him, but I did meet another Kenpo instructor there, I believe his name was Buell, possibly Martin Buell. I really don't remember his name, (over 15 yrs now) anyway, I believe his schools went by Universal Kenpo there on Oahu.

Anyway, this gentleman did know Professor Chow. He told me that Professor Chow sent him students. According to this man, if someone went to Professor Chow for instruction, Pro. Chow would not teach them if they had experience in any other martial art. If they had previous experience, Pro. Chow would refer them to this other instructor that I met.

I was also told by them that Pro. Chow wouldn't let anyone take pictures with him anymore because so many people we claiming to have trained with him.

I have no idea at what point in Pro. Chows life he decided not to teach anyone with previous experience, as I know earlier in his life he did train students with previous experience, but this was suppose to be his policy in the latte part of his life.

I can also tell you this. Refering to the other Kenpo instructor there on Oahu, he and his wife found it very interesting when I mentioned Villari training with Chow.

Supposedly at this point in Pro. Chow life, he was not living a very prosperous life. There were other Martial Artist doing rather well that had roots to Pro. Chow and others that made false claims to Pro. Chow. So Professor Chow had in his later years become almost reclusive.

Teej

 

[Karazenpo]

Yes, sir, you're on the money. I was told the same thing as far as Chow not wanting pictures taken with him due to false claims. Please refer to my previous posts where I gave a prime example(Villari) of that. No, Mr. Villari never trained with Professor Chow. To the best of my knowledge, he did visit him once and received a black & white autographed photo of the Professor. Again, I gave a thorough explaination on this in one of my previous posts and that you can take to the bank. It happened. I still have one of the copies (Chow's picture) Mr. Villari made hanging in my school, only I don't make false claims about it, lol. However, if you hear Villari trained with Mr. Ed Parker, this is true. During the mid to late 60's Professor Cerio was the Rhode Island state representative of Mr. Parker's International Kenpo Karate Association (IKKA) and received rank from the IKKA, Mr. Cerio would take Mr. Villari with him to training sessions with Mr. Parker. I was told this first hand by the late Professor Cerio. You are also right, this Villari-Chow direct link surfaced on their website after Mr. Cerio passed away. I e-mailed their website several times about correcting it but evidentally they rather perpetuate this myth. There is only one instructor that I could find that ever promoted Fred Villari and that is Nick Cerio. There is only one other renowned instructor I know of for sure that he attended several training sessions with and that was Mr. Ed Parker. The only other black belts I remember him training with first hand in the early to mid 70's were his brother-in-laws. His wife's brothers were shotokan black belts. That's it. The rest is myth and if anyone thinks differently I'd challenge them to present verfiable facts and please don't get me wrong. I'm not questioning at all Mr. Villari's knowledge and abilities or fighting prowess. I just feel he had more than enough to hang his hat or should I say belt on by being a 'Nick Cerio' black belt and attending training sessions with Mr. Ed Parker. If he wished to go on his own after that, train by himself and develop his own thing, fine, go for it. Look how many of our kenpo/kempo forefathers did the same thing. Just don't embellish and lie about it. It makes his students feel foolish when they repeat it in front of others in the know, then they become disgruntled with him. Not good. Respectfully, Shihan Joe

 

[teej]

I would have to see picture of Mr. Villari and Ed Parker together. I guess it is possible, but noone in the Parker system has ever mentioned anything about Mr. Villari. In fact the guys in the Villari system do not refer to Mr. Villari as a student of Mr. Cerio. They all say that the two of them trained together.

Interesting that you mention Shotokan. Mr. Villari's wife is Chinese. The Villari people I spoke with say that her brothers are "Chinese boxers" and that Mr. Villari married into a Chinese system. If you look at his systems structure, from White to Black belt, the material definetly has a Shotokan influence. However; everything after black belt especially the higher rank black belt matterial, is all Chinese. So I would have to believe that he does have some kind of Japanese back ground as well as Chinese. None of the Villari material resembles any of the Parker Kenpo techniques or forms at all, except for the "Two Man Set" that they teach.

I do know this. Mr. Cerio did not receive rank from Ed Parker or the IKKA. Hear me out before you get mad. Mick Cerio already had a black belt and a number of schools. The IKKA was growing at the time. Mr. Cerio approached Mr. Parker about having his schools join the IKKA. Yes, Mr. Cerio was the IKKA representative in the area. Again, Mr. Cerio already was wearing a black belt rank. He asked Mr. Parker for a ceritficate from the IKKA acknowledging his rank. Mr. Cerio was given an IKKA certificate for the rank that he came to the IKKA with. Mr. Parker did not promote Nick Cerio. Anyone that tested and was promoted to any black belt rank by Mr. Parker received the "Large" size IKKA certificate. If Mr. Parker did not personally test and promote you, (ex. a Parker instructor promotes one of his own students to blk belt) the student received the smaller IKKA certificate.

If you have access to Mr. Cerio's IKKA certificate, you will see that it is one of the small IKKA certificates. Also, somewhere along the bottom of his certificate there is an expiration date or "subject to review" date. I have personally spoken to the individual that drafted Mr. Cerio's certificate up for Mr. Parker.

Let me set this straight. I am not descrediting Mr. Cerio or his abilities or what he taught in any way. I am just stating that Mr. Cerio joined the IKKA as a black belt, and that Mr. Parker never promoted Mr. Cerio to any black belt ranks. The IKKA certificate was to acknowledge Mr. Cerio as the IKKA representative in his area. Mr. Cerio did train with Mr. Parker and some IKKA lower ranks that lived on the East Coast.

Do you have any idea what styles Mr. Cerio studied besides Parker Kenpo? Have a safe and Happy New Year.....Teej

 

[Karazenpo]

You know, I just wrote a nice long respectful reply to you and for some unknown reason it got lost in cyberspace so my patience are thin and I will be blunt. Where the hell did you get your information that Cerio never received rank from Parker. In 1983, CHECK IT OUT, Cerio received a 9th degree along with the title of Shihan. In the early to late 60's he received a second and third degree from the IKKA, Ed Parker's International Kenpo Karate Association. Please get your facts straight before you post. You may check this out with Shihan John James, historian and webmater of Nick Cerio's Kenpo , Inc. or Hanshi Craig Seavey, co-head, of Nick Cerio's Kenpo, Inc. Sorry, if I seem a little teed off but I am sick and tired of people making unsubstantiated statements about Cerio after his death, so I challenge you or anyone else on these facts, prove me I'm wrong, and if not , you owe the Cerio organization an apology!!!!!!!!! I am sick of people coming on these forums like they are experts when they know nothing!!!!!!!!!! If you know someting and I am wrong call me one but before you do at least check out you statement that Parker never promoted cerio to anything and after you do ask me if you would like mustard or mayo on his 9th dan certificate when you eat it! Sorry, I'm not usually like this but I've had it with the disinformatiom in the arts!

 

[Karazenpo]

An excerpt from my original statement read:

If you know someting and I am wrong call me one but before you do at least check out you statement that Parker never promoted cerio to anything and after you do ask me if you would like mustard or mayo on his 9th dan certificate when you eat it! Sorry, I'm not usually like this but I've had it with the disinformatiom in the arts!

My correction is:
Sorry for the mispelling but I was on a tirad. I mean't if you know something and I am wrong then call me on it. How can you say with conviction Parker never promoted Cerio? You are wrong and I would appreciate it if you rectify your statement. I have seen and have direct access to the certificates, do you? I am calling you on it!!! What say you?

 

[Karazenpo]

Also I never said Parker and Villari had a picture together, please re-read my post! see what I mean by misinformation! I stated Parker, Cerio and Villari had several training sessions together. Hey look, I mean no disrespect to you personally but like I said earlier, it's tough when one has been there, knew these people, was involved and then years later someone who doesn't have a clue posts all this disinformatiom and the poor guy is dead and can't defend himself. It sucks! Don't you agree?

 

[teej]

You most certainly are correct that neither can dispute this. It was not my place to print in a public forum. For that I do appologize.

Both men had significant impact on the arts. I did misinterpret what you wrote to mean Mr. Parker was the one that gave Mr. Cerio his black belt. Now rereading your post and others from you I see your mention of Gm. S. Pesare being his instructor as well as others before the Parker connection. Again, my appologies. I did not read all the posts under this topic.

You are correct, I do not have access to the certificates as you do. I did speak personally to the individual who printed, as per Mr. Parkers instructions, the certificate you spoke of, pertaining to this matter several years ago.

It is very possible that I might have misunderstood what was related to me, therefore I should not have put it in public forum. Again. Mr Cerio had a big impact along the N. E. He produced a strong organization which produced some high quality black belts.

Questioning Mr. Cerio's skill or abilities were never my intention. It is a shame that the good Lord has taken such men from us. Both men would still be making a big impact

 

[CoolKempoDude]

karazenpo,

i'm really suprised not to see your friend (Shihan John James of Nick Cerios) defend his instructor (Nick Cerios) in this forum even though Mr. James is a member of this forum.

Perhaps, you can suggest your friend (Mr James) to involve in this forum and tell everybody here about Nick Cerios's Art.

if he does that, i'm sure there will not be any more bad posts from other people who claim to be EXPERTS in the field in this forum.

Furthermore, we have a better understanding about Nick Cerios's Art history.

 

[Karazenpo]

teej, first of all, I have to say, I have the utmost respect for you. Anyone that can stand corrected as you stated is a stand up person and martial artist. I salute you, sir. It's not your fault, I, too, have been subject to misinformation in the past, it happens. However, in my opinion, for waht it's worth, you have shown your character, ethics and sincerity. God Bless! Sometimes I think people like you arte a dying species in the martial arts.

CoolKempo, yes, I'm sure if Shihan James sees this he will give his input but there will be no real revelation of what I've already stated and I would never state anything on a forum that I didn't have the blessings of the Nick Cerio Kenpo organization. Respectfully, Shihan Joe

Again, teej, I really respect your response to my post and I too, apologize if I seemed a little to aggressive in my defense of Professor Cerio but he was a helluva guy and a good friend.

 

[Karazenpo]

Hey teej, You are right on the name, Martin Buell. He is a black belt master from the lineage of Sijo Walter Godin, co-founder of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. Godin went on to create Godin's Chinese Kenpo. Mr. Martin Buell has an excellent reputation in the arts and is headmaster of the Universal Kenpo organization.