BTW, if this has been proven false, post some reputable links. Otherwise, it's valid intel. If it later gets proven false, then we have it all together and will add to the chances of falsehoods being being disproven and people educated about them.
Sarah Palin for President?
- Thread starter Makalakumu
- Start date
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
Uh, like having a pulse? The tie-breaking vote in the Senate thing is almost a myth as often as it comes in to use... What other duties does the Constitution spell out for the VP? Yes, President Bush did delegate a lot of authority to VP Cheney, delegation of authority is a function of leadership.
Could that be because the term “Bush Doctrine” is frequently redefined by the media and the democrats?
The Bush Doctrine is quite simple, really. "You're either for us or against us." This black-and-white stance has been used to justify crossing borders without consent. It can be considered a war crime, if I'm not mistaken, but I'll do some more digging on that. Wiki on the Bush Doctrine.
The Veep is the President of the Senate and the other primary duty is to succeed the president in the case of death.
BUT ... the Veep is an agent of the President and acts on behalf of the president as assigned.
Wiki on the office of Vice President of the United States.
Can someone please send her a link to Wikipedia? Seems they have a nice list there she might want to review before next January when she takes office.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Duties
Oh, they also have info on this "Bush Doctrine" thing.
We do know she knows how to use a computer.
Well, Yahoo Mail anyway since those nasty government email systems keep too many copies and can hold you accountable ya know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Duties
Oh, they also have info on this "Bush Doctrine" thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine
We do know she knows how to use a computer.
Well, Yahoo Mail anyway since those nasty government email systems keep too many copies and can hold you accountable ya know.
Ha ha! Beat ya tew it! LOL!
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire WasillaÂ’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didnÂ’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books.
got that? even the librarian doesnt claim she was threatened.
The duties of the vice president are nebulous at best, I dont need to refute that
the "bush doctrine" was term invented by the press, and used to describe lots of things, come on, at lest be honest about that.....
the raised taxes in Wasilla? even this leftist site:
http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/
says she CUT taxes, the only tax increase was a sales tax, to pay off the BOND issue for the sports complex, and it looks liek it will be paid ahead of time
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/705/
Current Mayor Diane M. Keller, who served on the City Council when Palin was mayor, said just presenting those raw figures is misleading.
Yes, she said, WasillaÂ’s budgets increased and tax receipts went up under PalinÂ’s reign, but much of that was due to the growth of the city during those six years.
Yes, she said, the sales tax rate went from 2 percent to 2.5 percent under Palin, but that was approved via voter referendum, with the extra proceeds earmarked specifically to pay off that sports complex.....
Due to the economic growth in the community, Keller said, Wasilla is going to be able to stop charging that extra .5 percent sales tax two years earlier than anticipated.
The property tax rate was reduced under Palin from 2 mills to .5 mills (it was later eliminated under Keller).
Voters also okayed the bond issue to pay for road improvements, Keller noted.
“The people in our community wanted road improvements,” Keller said. “The taxpayers voted on it. Same thing with the sports complex. It’s up to us to do what the people are asking for.”
The trooper thing?
http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html
Monegan was a Palin appointee, and she had a right to fire him for any reason. She's previously refused to say exactly why she got rid of him, but laid out several reasons Wednesday, saying she's decided to talk about it because Monegan is.
the trooper in question?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wa...s/2008/08/monegan_to_palin_maam_i_need_t.html
Todd Palin, the governor's husband, had brought Monegan a dossier of information on Wooten compiled by Todd and a private investigator. Monegan looked at the information and determined that, "There was no new evidence, no new complaints." In 2005, when Gov. Palin's sister filed for divorce, her father had lodged several complaints with state police against Wooten: using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson, shooting a moose without a permit and drinking beer while driving a patrol car.
An investigation sustained the allegations regarding the moose hunt and the Taser, and later also sustained the drinking charge after at first finding it unsupported. Documents say Wooten was reprimanded and suspended.
get that? it was PROVEN the guy tazered a TEN YEAR OLD, and she wanted him fired. How many goveners wouldnt want a state trooper fired who did that?
yeah, it looks bad cuz the guy was her brother in law, but that doesnt change what he was PROVEn to have done. And those acts put him on the "needs to be fired" list
Monegan wouldnt do what he was ordered, by his boss to do, so HE was fired.
Wouldnt YOU be fired if you disobeyed a direct order from your boss?
I would be.
And i would deserve it
And the jet?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/691/ Palin defeated Murkowski in the Republican primary and then won the general election. She said during the campaign she would sell the jet, and one of her first orders on taking office was putting the it up for sale. And yep, the state decided to list it on eBay for an asking price of $2.5-million. (The state had paid just under $2.7-million for it in 2005.)
It wasn't as wacky as it sounds. The state had sold smaller aircraft previously on eBay. (Alaska is a large, rural state, and state officials do use aircraft to get around. But typically they use smaller, more rugged planes than Murkowski's jet.)
But the jet's eBay listing did not prove effective, and the state never got its asking price. Instead, in 2007, the state turned to an aircraft broker, Turbo North Aviation. The jet was purchased that year by businessman Larry Reynolds, the owner of a sporting goods store and marine supply store in Valdez. Reynolds paid $2.1-million.
So it's true that Palin put the plane up for sale on eBay, but it didn't sell on eBay. That's not a huge point, but it is worth noting. We rate Palin's statement True.
it was put on ebay FIRST and it didnt sell, so she sold it direct
yet again, leftist tell half the truth and people just eat it up.
there ya go bob, the entire pile of steaming refuse, refuted.
One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire WasillaÂ’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didnÂ’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books.
got that? even the librarian doesnt claim she was threatened.
The duties of the vice president are nebulous at best, I dont need to refute that
the "bush doctrine" was term invented by the press, and used to describe lots of things, come on, at lest be honest about that.....
the raised taxes in Wasilla? even this leftist site:
http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/03/wasilla-in-debt/
says she CUT taxes, the only tax increase was a sales tax, to pay off the BOND issue for the sports complex, and it looks liek it will be paid ahead of time
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/705/
Current Mayor Diane M. Keller, who served on the City Council when Palin was mayor, said just presenting those raw figures is misleading.
Yes, she said, WasillaÂ’s budgets increased and tax receipts went up under PalinÂ’s reign, but much of that was due to the growth of the city during those six years.
Yes, she said, the sales tax rate went from 2 percent to 2.5 percent under Palin, but that was approved via voter referendum, with the extra proceeds earmarked specifically to pay off that sports complex.....
Due to the economic growth in the community, Keller said, Wasilla is going to be able to stop charging that extra .5 percent sales tax two years earlier than anticipated.
The property tax rate was reduced under Palin from 2 mills to .5 mills (it was later eliminated under Keller).
Voters also okayed the bond issue to pay for road improvements, Keller noted.
“The people in our community wanted road improvements,” Keller said. “The taxpayers voted on it. Same thing with the sports complex. It’s up to us to do what the people are asking for.”
The trooper thing?
http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html
Monegan was a Palin appointee, and she had a right to fire him for any reason. She's previously refused to say exactly why she got rid of him, but laid out several reasons Wednesday, saying she's decided to talk about it because Monegan is.
the trooper in question?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wa...s/2008/08/monegan_to_palin_maam_i_need_t.html
Todd Palin, the governor's husband, had brought Monegan a dossier of information on Wooten compiled by Todd and a private investigator. Monegan looked at the information and determined that, "There was no new evidence, no new complaints." In 2005, when Gov. Palin's sister filed for divorce, her father had lodged several complaints with state police against Wooten: using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson, shooting a moose without a permit and drinking beer while driving a patrol car.
An investigation sustained the allegations regarding the moose hunt and the Taser, and later also sustained the drinking charge after at first finding it unsupported. Documents say Wooten was reprimanded and suspended.
get that? it was PROVEN the guy tazered a TEN YEAR OLD, and she wanted him fired. How many goveners wouldnt want a state trooper fired who did that?
yeah, it looks bad cuz the guy was her brother in law, but that doesnt change what he was PROVEn to have done. And those acts put him on the "needs to be fired" list
Monegan wouldnt do what he was ordered, by his boss to do, so HE was fired.
Wouldnt YOU be fired if you disobeyed a direct order from your boss?
I would be.
And i would deserve it
And the jet?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/691/ Palin defeated Murkowski in the Republican primary and then won the general election. She said during the campaign she would sell the jet, and one of her first orders on taking office was putting the it up for sale. And yep, the state decided to list it on eBay for an asking price of $2.5-million. (The state had paid just under $2.7-million for it in 2005.)
It wasn't as wacky as it sounds. The state had sold smaller aircraft previously on eBay. (Alaska is a large, rural state, and state officials do use aircraft to get around. But typically they use smaller, more rugged planes than Murkowski's jet.)
But the jet's eBay listing did not prove effective, and the state never got its asking price. Instead, in 2007, the state turned to an aircraft broker, Turbo North Aviation. The jet was purchased that year by businessman Larry Reynolds, the owner of a sporting goods store and marine supply store in Valdez. Reynolds paid $2.1-million.
So it's true that Palin put the plane up for sale on eBay, but it didn't sell on eBay. That's not a huge point, but it is worth noting. We rate Palin's statement True.
it was put on ebay FIRST and it didnt sell, so she sold it direct
yet again, leftist tell half the truth and people just eat it up.
there ya go bob, the entire pile of steaming refuse, refuted.
Did you miss this part? "The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. "
She was fired because Palin thought the librarian didn't support her? That isn't a valid reason for termination of employment which is probably why she was rehired the next day.
The specifics are undefined because the office of Vice-president is almost like Co-President. Anyone who's ever been Chair of a committee or President of an association who utilizes the Vice Chair or Vice President knows that this is really how the application works. The Veep is a direct agent of the President, so if McCain has double-duty and wants to send her to Afghanistan to negotiate, she's going ... to represent and negotiate for him. An agent of the president. Acting on behalf of the president. Some people don't really see how heavy that spot is unless you've led.
Lots of things centered around the "with us or against us" method of dealing with terrorism and wartime tactics. Bush's way of handling the matter. Not yours. Not mine. Not Condy Rice's, Bush's way specifically, influenced by things he said. Saying that it was used to describe a lot of things is kinda like saying - stay with me here because I agree with you to a point - rubber duckies are colored yellow. Well, yeah, they ARE yellow. But are they Yellow #4, Yellow #6? Are they Sun Yellow, Corn Yellow or Maize? Depends on the manufacturer, no?
Well I can see where you can say "Bush Doctrine" was defined by the individual reporter or magazine or other medium because some classified the entire Bush legacy as "Bush Doctrine" and used the term in some cases to refer to how Bush applied his technique to other national issues. But essentially, and for the sake of argument, The Bush Doctrine was coined right after he spoke out against terrorism in his speech saying, "You're either with us or against us" and his repeated insistance that we will stop at virtually nothing to stop the terrorists, again pointing to the disputed efficacy of torture and pressure tactics at Gitmo as well as his purported abuse of borders (invading without permission).
The forfeiture of civil liberties and the Patriot Act are some of the nastiest, anti-American instances to happen in our age coming from the office of President and his agencies. THIS is also classified as Bush Doctrine because they formed from his Zero Tolerance stance on terrorism (which includes the forfeiture of what it arguably means to be an American).
Ah, but it was built on land not owned, leading to years of legal battles incurring MORE debt.
I'll dig more on the Tax issue with her later, but wanted to respond to this for now.
So why not cooperate with the subpoenas? Let me throw that line about sacrificing civil liberties in the name of national security that the GOP tossed about right back to you: If you've got nothing to hide, why not cooperate with the government?
Ya know, this is so low on my radar - to me it's more important that she actually sold the thing rather than keep it. It is over the top and I think selling it is just as respectable as Jerry Brown taking an apartment and opening up the Governor's Mansion to tourism and driving himself and being driven around in his economy car rather than the gas-guzzling armored car afforded the office of Governor of the State of California. Both are examples of saving the state money and bringing funds IN. The only facet on the argument would be of truth and that's shaky. I think the other evidence weighs much more heavily than "I put it on e-bay" versus "I put it on e-bay and we didn't get high enough bids, it didn't sell so I sold it to a private party, a contributor." Whatever.
Mmm ... I dunno about that, but ... argued. And I can't call the argument against her a "pile of steaming refuse."
You sure do get emotional over this stuff TF.
I've got a few questions.
- Why was the 10 year old zapped? What were the circumstances in play at the time?
- Shooting a moose without a permit....in Alaska. Again, under what circumstances did he shoot the moose?
- Driving a patrol car while drinking. Ok that's bad. Sucks he got off scott free on that one huh?
"it was PROVEN the guy tazered a TEN YEAR OLD, and she wanted him fired. How many goveners wouldnt want a state trooper fired who did that?"
I dunno. One who has all of the facts and made an unbiased decision, not one of "How dare someone zap my nephew!".
Other things imply she wasn't in full possession of facts, acted on emotion, etc.
I posted links that clearly define "Bush Doctrine" and the VP's duties, on a site that is at least as accurate as EB.
If you want to vote for an ignorant person, go right ahead. I prefer the candidates who actually have a clue on things and who aren't even worse than the current monkey. eek eek.
I've got a few questions.
- Why was the 10 year old zapped? What were the circumstances in play at the time?
- Shooting a moose without a permit....in Alaska. Again, under what circumstances did he shoot the moose?
- Driving a patrol car while drinking. Ok that's bad. Sucks he got off scott free on that one huh?
"it was PROVEN the guy tazered a TEN YEAR OLD, and she wanted him fired. How many goveners wouldnt want a state trooper fired who did that?"
I dunno. One who has all of the facts and made an unbiased decision, not one of "How dare someone zap my nephew!".
Other things imply she wasn't in full possession of facts, acted on emotion, etc.
I posted links that clearly define "Bush Doctrine" and the VP's duties, on a site that is at least as accurate as EB.
If you want to vote for an ignorant person, go right ahead. I prefer the candidates who actually have a clue on things and who aren't even worse than the current monkey. eek eek.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
of course you dont think t is refuted, you dont like her, by your own admission, so you cant really claim to be taking an unbiased look at the evidence.
as to the librarian, the biggest part of that that is crap is that the artical is written to sound like PALIN wanted to ban books, that is a LIE. One of the people wanted books removed, she asked the librarian how that would be accomplished, she never wanted to do it herself.
"Ah, but it was built on land not owned, leading to years of legal battles incurring MORE debt. "
now that is picking nits..LOL
the point is, the CLAIM isnt true
I proved that
As for the supoenas? maybe becasue she is busy on a campaign? do you REALLY think it is a coincidence that the sopoenas were issued NOW?
As for the plane, she saud she put it on ebay, and some leftist blogger called her a liar.
HE is the liar, she told the truth, and that is the whole point, all this crap getting thrown at her is all BS and political half truths, THAT makes it a pile of steaming refuse.
legit critisism? have at it, but if they have to lie? or tell half the story? then that makes it crap.
as to the librarian, the biggest part of that that is crap is that the artical is written to sound like PALIN wanted to ban books, that is a LIE. One of the people wanted books removed, she asked the librarian how that would be accomplished, she never wanted to do it herself.
"Ah, but it was built on land not owned, leading to years of legal battles incurring MORE debt. "
now that is picking nits..LOL
the point is, the CLAIM isnt true
I proved that
As for the supoenas? maybe becasue she is busy on a campaign? do you REALLY think it is a coincidence that the sopoenas were issued NOW?
As for the plane, she saud she put it on ebay, and some leftist blogger called her a liar.
HE is the liar, she told the truth, and that is the whole point, all this crap getting thrown at her is all BS and political half truths, THAT makes it a pile of steaming refuse.
legit critisism? have at it, but if they have to lie? or tell half the story? then that makes it crap.
I was thinking more like "Oh Yeah!" myself.
Here's how I see her:
- She uses a non-government non-secure email system for official business to avoid accountability for her actions. What other reason would there possibly be to not use the official email systems, which are legally required to archive all incoming and outgoing messages? Shady.
- She advocates abstinence only, and has no intent to fund alternates which are more effective means of decreasing teen pregnancy. Ignorant.
- She, in her own words, has no idea what the position she is running for does. Uneducated.
- She doesn't understand major policy points of the current administration. Uneducated or Ignorant.
- She refuses to participate in ongoing investigations of wrongdoing, and has instructed her people to ignore the courts. She and her people have no respect for the law.
I don''t care how "hot" some morons out there find her.
I don't care that she's female.
I don't care about her personal life.
I do care that what I'm seeing is a Shady, Ignorant individual who appears to have used her position improperly, and who refuses to be held within the laws of the state she herself has sworn to. This gives me little confidence in her ability to be the right-hand person to the CiC, or to take the reigns should it fall to her to do so.
I feel similarly towards the other 3 clones on the big tickets.
The NY Times recently made the case that it is the McCain campaign that's guilty of lying. The public editor addressed it in yesterday's edition; see here:
Oh, and Mr. Hubbard, I won't stand for this kind of abuse from you:
Don't hate me because she's beautiful.
Oh, and Mr. Hubbard, I won't stand for this kind of abuse from you:
Don't hate me because she's beautiful.
But we don't "like her."
...
...
...
Of course, I'd really like for someone to point to something about her that *is* to like.
And Arni ... You're in for it. :EG:
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
is that a substansial response or an emotional one.
let me be frank, i actually agree with SOME of what Bob has to say.
she is politically un-schooled
I see that as a plus, the same old same old gets you the same old results
Now Bob,
is this
"She uses a non-government non-secure email system for official business to avoid accountability for her actions. What other reason would there possibly be to not use the official email systems, which are legally required to archive all incoming and outgoing messages? Shady."
a gut feeling or do you have some evidence? it's ok if it is a gut feeling, i am just curious, my gut tells me Obama is a racist lying scumbag, but then, the evidence backs my gut up...LOL
3 parts.
Statement 1:
"She uses a non-government non-secure email system for official business to avoid accountability for her actions."
Facts:
Statement 2:
"What other reason would there possibly be to not use the official email systems, which are legally required to archive all incoming and outgoing messages? "
Comment:
This is a serious question. The only reason I can see to conduct official business through non-official means when data storage laws are what they are is to avoid possible scrutiny.
Statement 3:
"Shady."
This is my opinion of the above shown behaviors on the part of an elected official sworn to uphold and follow the laws of the state and nation.
Statement 1:
"She uses a non-government non-secure email system for official business to avoid accountability for her actions."
Facts:
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_Yahoo_account_2008
Statement 2:
"What other reason would there possibly be to not use the official email systems, which are legally required to archive all incoming and outgoing messages? "
Comment:
This is a serious question. The only reason I can see to conduct official business through non-official means when data storage laws are what they are is to avoid possible scrutiny.
Statement 3:
"Shady."
This is my opinion of the above shown behaviors on the part of an elected official sworn to uphold and follow the laws of the state and nation.
As to Obama, this isn't about the loser in the election, but the new VP.
It's a realization that there are some people who really don't care whose hands hold their country. I frankly don't know why I'm surprised. Dubya pulled it off with his sketchy past and limited experience. Why couldn't Palin?
But I know you weren't *really* asking that question because the sentence fragment you posted wasn't formed as a question nor was it punctuated for it.
Enjoy your right to vote your conscience.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
Bob,
I am pretty sure you are just playing Devil's advocate here, we all know how you like to twist people's tails.
What i get emotional about, is dishonesty
in the press in particular. Why?
We HAVE to have an honest press. In this day and age, information is the most vital resource we have. Without true and honest information, none of us can make good decisions about anything. We rely on information, and that comes from, by and large anyway, the press.
And now the press isnt dong thier job
hack pieces like that tripe you posted are given serious thought, even though a laymen like myself, with 10 minutes of not very serious effort can refute it. But someone, who doesnt know better, will believe it, and be led astray. And the so called "press" doesnt even post a disclaimer that it is an opinion piece and not "news"
Just like I rail against dishonest critique of the president, I rail about dishonest critique of everyone, including Obama.
Honest, truthful critique is fine.
But when someone lies, they kill a small part of the world.
Now, to your questions:
WHO CARES why the 10 year old was tazered? there are no conditions where a CHILD should be hit with a tazer. This wasnt some 15 yr old gangbanger. It was a 10 year old CHILD
No, nothing "implies" she wasnt in full possesion of the facts, you are inferring she wasnt, because you want to. There is no evidence otherwise.
And as to the email, you are assigning motive when there is no evidence of one. You are supplying one because you cant think of any other reason, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
BTW- calling the President a chimp? thats beneth you, in fact it is epic in it's trollishness.
I am pretty sure you are just playing Devil's advocate here, we all know how you like to twist people's tails.
What i get emotional about, is dishonesty
in the press in particular. Why?
We HAVE to have an honest press. In this day and age, information is the most vital resource we have. Without true and honest information, none of us can make good decisions about anything. We rely on information, and that comes from, by and large anyway, the press.
And now the press isnt dong thier job
hack pieces like that tripe you posted are given serious thought, even though a laymen like myself, with 10 minutes of not very serious effort can refute it. But someone, who doesnt know better, will believe it, and be led astray. And the so called "press" doesnt even post a disclaimer that it is an opinion piece and not "news"
Just like I rail against dishonest critique of the president, I rail about dishonest critique of everyone, including Obama.
Honest, truthful critique is fine.
But when someone lies, they kill a small part of the world.
Now, to your questions:
WHO CARES why the 10 year old was tazered? there are no conditions where a CHILD should be hit with a tazer. This wasnt some 15 yr old gangbanger. It was a 10 year old CHILD
No, nothing "implies" she wasnt in full possesion of the facts, you are inferring she wasnt, because you want to. There is no evidence otherwise.
And as to the email, you are assigning motive when there is no evidence of one. You are supplying one because you cant think of any other reason, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
BTW- calling the President a chimp? thats beneth you, in fact it is epic in it's trollishness.
Let me rephrase, since you seem to be McCaining my comments here.
She is just as qualified for the job as the current sitting president, and I can expect her to do just as great a job as he has, with a similar style and similar results, should she find herself in that position.
Of course you avoided my answering my questions.
How McBama like.
She is just as qualified for the job as the current sitting president, and I can expect her to do just as great a job as he has, with a similar style and similar results, should she find herself in that position.
Of course you avoided my answering my questions.
How McBama like.
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