S.E.I.U. organizes rally with actual communists

[billc]

I have an ongoing debate here on the study about socialism and it's definition. Apparently, the service employees international union is fine with openly associating with the communist party here in the United STates. That's fine, we have freedom of association here in this country which I whole heartedly support. At least they are not hiding anymore, I also believe in honesty and the light of day. Regardless of the defintion of socialism, one cannot deny that in the last century communism was responsible for the death of over 100 million people world wide. I still don't understand how people can openly associate themselves with something as monstrous as that.

From a caption of one of the photos in the article:

One of the SEIU leaders picked up a Communist flag and led a contingent of rank-and-file SEIU members. Everyone was OK with that.

http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2011/05/06/seiu-drops-mask-goes-full-commie/

Think about it. Is there any political party, here in the states, that would ever openly associate with the national socialist party, (the nazis). Never. The national socialists in germany killed nearly 12-15 million people, not including the dead caused their war making. The communists killed over 100 million world wide, on top of their war making.

And yet, people today still choose to take that name freely and with pride.

***The argument that communism was never really tried, or that it is just a philosophy that was misinterpreted does not work. try that with the word Nazi, and see how many people think that it is just a philosophy that was misinterpreted and that really, it is a good thing just never fully realized.****

Well, S.E.I. U is now openly associating with people who proudly take the name of a movement that murdered over100 million people. Wow.

 

[granfire]

OH EM GEEE.....ACTUAL COMMUNISTS?!!!

I bet you are going... throwing peanuts at them....like in the zoo....

 

[billc]

I have to wonder if your response would be the same if they were carrying nazi (national socialist) flags and wearing their armbands. the national socialists murdered 12-15 million innocent people, the communists, the international socialists murdered over 100 million people world wide. Curious the way that fact is just brushed off as being inconsequential.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Back in 04 I think, I almost voted for the Communist candidate, because his honesty and sincerity was pretty impressive. I ended up with the Libertarian candidate though.

 

[granfire]

I have to wonder if your response would be the same if they were carrying nazi (national socialist) flags and wearing their armbands. the national socialists murdered 12-15 million innocent people, the communists, the international socialists murdered over 100 million people world wide. Curious the way that fact is just brushed off as being inconsequential.

One of these days I might actually tell you how I really feel about your nonsense.

Communists =/= nazis. Always have. always will. I see you can read the words but comprehension is not there: Because there is a 'socialist' in the name not one make.

In pretty much all of the industrialized west communists paid a high price to move labor practices out of the industrial revolution to a human level. A lot of the 12 million people (it's a conservative number at that) killed by the Nazis were in fact socialists and communists. And frankly, a lot of communists were killed in Russia, too, because the bolshevik did not like competition from the soft core of the movement...

Once and for all: because you don't know your brass from your elbow does not mean the rest of the world fell off a turnip truck....

Unlike you, Nazis are in my family history, not an abstract concept I do not understand nor care to learn about.

 

[billc]

Please, let me have it granfire, I can't wait. National socialists are in fact socialists as are communists who are international socialists. Chicken.

 

[billc]

Yeah, that price was over 100 million dead, innocent people. That is a high price.

 

[billc]

The actual beliefs are what make a socialist of the international or national type the same thing, hardly just the name.

 

[elder999]

The Communist party in the U.S. was directly responsible, through their support of unions, in no particular order:

The 8 hr. work day.
Overtime pay.
The five day work week.
Paid vacation.
Sick time.
Collective bargaining.
Equal pay for "equal" work.

Things that many of us have come to take for granted, and some of us have counted on. The Communist party has always been part of the labor movement in the U.S., though most of the industrial unions they actually helped start expelled or disavowed Communism in the 40's by adopting the Smith Act, which set criminal penalties for plotting to overthrow the U.S. government.

 

[billc]

And if the nazi party (national socialists) supported and worked for those things would you march with them?

 

[billc]

So, the way some people post, are you saying you would kill over 100 million people to get an 8 hour work day?

 

[elder999]

So, the way some people post, are you saying you would kill over 100 million people to get an 8 hour work day?

The way "some people" post, Im tempted to reply, "sure," but that's not true. :lfao:

Anyway, the Communist party in the USA didn't do that-didn't kill anyone. Of course, they staunchly supported the Soviet Union, which made them something of a joke by the time McCarthy pretty much finished them off; though they tried a resurgence in the 60's, no one has ever taken them seriously-and you especially should not. :lfao:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Stalin also had a fair number of his own friends executed, in addition to the hundred plus million he sent to death camps, and the thousands of captured German soldiers who vanished into Siberia.

But, excluding Soviet Russia, in say the last 10 years, how many thousands of people have communist nations murdered?
Now compare that with Nazi nations...oh wait, there are none.
Ok, now how many thousands of civilians were killed in Iraq by the US and it's allies during the invasion. (Hint, it's over 10,000)

The Communist party in the US is a legitimate party, marginalized, minimized, and pretty much about as effective in politics as the Cub Scouts are in combat. Kinda like the Constitution party in fact.
:/

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Stalin also had a fair number of his own friends executed, in addition to the hundred plus million he sent to death camps, and the thousands of captured German soldiers who vanished into Siberia.

But, excluding Soviet Russia, in say the last 10 years, how many thousands of people have communist nations murdered?
Now compare that with Nazi nations...oh wait, there are none.
Ok, now how many thousands of civilians were killed in Iraq by the US and it's allies during the invasion. (Hint, it's over 10,000)

The Communist party in the US is a legitimate party, marginalized, minimized, and pretty much about as effective in politics as the Cub Scouts are in combat. Kinda like the Constitution party in fact.
:/

 

[billc]

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Communist_Party_USA

from this article:

After Stalin publicly disbanded the Comintern, an NKVD message to all stations on September 12, 1943, detailed new instructions for handling intelligence sources within the CPUSA. The Venona cables and other newly published sources appear to confirm that executed Soviet spy Julius Rosenberg—long held by left-wing groups to be a victim of persecution—was indeed guilty of providing nuclear secrets to the Soviets.
In 1993, experts from the Library of Congress traveled to Moscow to copy previously secret archives of Communist Party USA (CPUSA) records, sent to the Soviet Union for safekeeping by party organizers. The records provided an irrefutable link between Soviet intelligence and information obtained by the CPUSA and its contacts in the U.S. government from the 1920s through the 1940s.[6]


Another element of the party, however, remained permanently underground, later known as the CPUSA secret apparatus. It was through this underground operation that Soviet intelligence was able to use a select number of CPUSA members as its agents.

Espionage


Whittaker Chambers
Even more controversial than funding, however, is the alleged involvement of CPUSA members in espionage for the Soviet Union.
Long-time FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and other U.S. experts believed that the CPUSA constituted an active conspiracy loyal to a foreign power, whose members routinely assisted Soviet intelligence in the clandestine infiltration of the American government. This once discredited view is supported by several memoirs of ex-Soviet KGB officers and information obtained from Soviet archives.[5]
In the 1950s, former CPUSA member Whittaker Chambers revealed that he had been recruited into the CPUSA underground united and acted as a Soviet spy. He identified Sandor Goldberger—also known as "Josef Peters"—as the head the CPUSA’s underground secret apparatus from 1932 to 1938 who pioneered its role as an auxiliary to Soviet intelligence activities. Bernard Schuster, organizational secretary of the New York district of the CPUSA, was another operational recruiter and conduit for members of the CPUSA into the ranks of the secret apparatus, or "Group A line." Earl Browder himself was both chairman of the CPUSA and a recruiter for the NKVD.

 

[billc]

From the tibetan government in exile:

http://stason.org/TULARC/travel/tib...s-have-died-as-a-result-of-the-Chinese-o.html


The following table was made up by the Bureau of Information of the
Tibetan government-in-exile:

TIBETAN DEATHS UNDER CHINESE OCCUPATION (through 1988)

CAUSE OF DEATH U-Tsang Kham Amdo Total
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tortured in prison 93,560 64,877 14,784 173,221
Executed 28,267 32,266 96,225 156,758
Killed in fighting 143,253 240,410 49,042 432,705
Starved to death 131,072 89,916 121,982 342,970
Suicide 3,375 3,952 1,675 9,002
"Struggled" to death 27,951 48,840 15,940 97,731

TOTAL 427,478 480,361 299,648 1,207,387

 

[billc]

Tianemen square:

Number of deaths
The number of dead and wounded remains unclear because of the large discrepancies between the different estimates. Some of the early estimates were based on reports of a figure of 2,600 from the Chinese Red Cross. The official Chinese government figure is 241 dead, including soldiers, and 7,000 wounded.[83]

According to an analysis by Nicholas D. Kristof of The New York Times, "The true number of deaths will probably never be known, and it is possible that thousands of people were killed without leaving evidence behind. But based on the evidence that is now available, it seems plausible that about fifty soldiers and policemen were killed, along with 400 to 800 civilians."[84] An intelligence report received by the Soviet politburo estimated that 3,000 protesters were killed, according to a document found in the Soviet archive.[85]

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In the 2004 US election, the socialists got about 22,000 votes, out of 122 million.
If they swelled their numbers by 1800%, they might actually be as ineffective as the Libertarian Party.

 

[elder999]

In the 1950s, former CPUSA member Whittaker Chambers revealed that he had been recruited into the CPUSA underground united and acted as a Soviet spy. .

In the 1950's there were about 10.000 CPUSA members.

1500 of them were FBI informants. :lfao:

 

[billc]

If they were nazis (national socialists) would you still look at them the same way? Why do the communists get a pass for their past affiliations? Would you march with the Klan if they all of a sudden said they really wanted to change their image and wanted to work for civil rights now?