The Nazi thing

Not that anyone particularly cares, but I personally find it extremely insulting and offensive that someone would compare portions of the American Government with Nazism. Granted, the government has its problems and is FAR from perfect. Does a lot of things that people don't agree with....BUT, I think that we're pretty far from openly encouraging genocide, advocating a master race and making an open push to taking over the world. Even in our current military endeavors, we have a (very general idea as is it) foe for a very specific purpose. Argue it however you want, no one has ever said that our GOAL is to eliminate every muslim from the face of the earth.

To make a sweeping generalization such as comparing a few select beliefs of one system of thinking with a completely different ideology is honestly what I had idealistically hoped was above most people.

Vigilance is important. Constantly looking at our own beliefs and ensuring that the government and the people are "doing the right thing" is necessary...especially in a govenmernt like this, where, however small it is, the people have some say. If we are going down the wrong road, it is important to say something....and while many people don't agree with things that we're doing....I really think that we're in a different ballpark from the Nazi national objectives.

My personal opinion is that any "ism" or policatical partisan alliance is detrimental to the greater good. I think that the massive number of recent threads whose primary purpose is the "bash" and put down another set of beliefs is proof of that. Don't agree? Fine. Want to tell people that you don't agree? GREAT! But put people into two nice little groups and boy does it become easy to generalize and bash an huge portion of the population for the beliefs of a few. There is just as much diversity within each political party as there are religions or races or any other large portion of the population.

Ok, down off my soapbox. Personal opinions, obviously everyone's right to disagree. I just feel that when we get to the point of comparing the entire American liberal party to Nazis....we're on the verge of McCarthyism.
 
-I had healthcare/health insurance once. But that was several years ago. I don't have it anymore.

-Want to know why? BECAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!

-There are people in this nation, the 'greatest nation', suffering and dying due to a simple lack of healthcare. Things that should be easy to have a doctor look at and take care of. They're not looked at, and time goes by, and the problem catches up with that person. But there are other bills to pay, rent, food. I mean, we all have our priorities, right?

-Oh I forgot, just rush myself to the emergency room, that will solve it, that will take care of it. Not. Frankly, if you don't believe people should have affordable healthcare, something so basic and decent to any human being, then don't call yourself human.

-Of course, that is just my opinion.

Andrew
 
-I had healthcare/health insurance once. But that was several years ago. I don't have it anymore.

-Want to know why? BECAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!

-There are people in this nation, the 'greatest nation', suffering and dying due to a simple lack of healthcare. Things that should be easy to have a doctor look at and take care of. They're not looked at, and time goes by, and the problem catches up with that person. But there are other bills to pay, rent, food. I mean, we all have our priorities, right?

-Oh I forgot, just rush myself to the emergency room, that will solve it, that will take care of it. Not. Frankly, if you don't believe people should have affordable healthcare, something so basic and decent to any human being, then don't call yourself human.

-Of course, that is just my opinion.

Andrew
Should you be forced to pay for my health care?
 
when we get to the point of comparing the entire American liberal party to Nazis....we're on the verge of McCarthyism.

everyone forgets that while he may have been a loathsome man, McCarthy was also RIGHT about most of the things he said. Russia was supporting communists in the US. With the purpose of destroying the American government. The Soviets WERE in fact trying to take over the world.

demonize him all you want, but give credit where it is due. he was RIGHT.
 
everyone forgets that while he may have been a loathsome man, McCarthy was also RIGHT about most of the things he said. Russia was supporting communists in the US. With the purpose of destroying the American government. The Soviets WERE in fact trying to take over the world.

demonize him all you want, but give credit where it is due. he was RIGHT.

He was a loathsome man and some of the things that he said were correct, but his actions and his path for solving those things was not by any standard right. I think that is what it comes down to and what I was referring to....his ACTIONS.

A lot of the things that he SAID were right, there were communists at work in the US. There were spys here trying to undermine the government....but the majority of the trials were witch hunts.

But either way, that was communism, we're discussing Naziism. My analogy was simply pointing out the fact that he took a huge portion of the population and accused them of being something that they were not because of a few of their actions which may or may not have been related to the cause that he was using to accomplish his means. The point is that it is easy to take an idea or "ism" that everyone associates with Evil, then pin some other group to it....which is completely unrelated in the majority of its beliefs or its important beliefs.
 
Should you be forced to pay for my health care?


As I suspect you know already it doesn't work like that. Here all adults in employment pay either weekly or monthly a National Insurance stamp, those unable to work ( unable not bone idle),are credited with their stamps. Note the word insurance. This is what pays for our medical care. Do we have to pay it? Yes but everyone is accepted for medical care regardless of any pre existing medical condition or any illness you may get. It covers from antenatal care to terminal illness care and everything in between. It covers emergency ambulances, paramedics, A&E, it covers physiotherapy, chiropedy, cancer care, mental health, hospital stays, health visitors, midwives well just about everyhting. The NHS isn't perfect, there's problems of course but after 60 years we wouldn't be without it.
You probably pay for private health insurance, it's no different for us except we pay it into the national system, we get healthcare, benefits when we get old but we have paid for them ourselves. It's insurance for all who can pay and it's a safety net for those people who can't. No one should die because they can't afford to see a doctor.
 
Should you be forced to pay for my health care?

But wait.. I work for the government and people have to pay taxes,
if you don't they go to jail and those taxes are used, in part, to pay for my health care... and pension... So I am guessing NYS is a Nazi state by what you are putting forth here. And since we all pay federal taxes that are also used in part to pay healthcare and pensions then the USA is also a Nazi state.... nope sorry there is more to it to being a Nazi than paying healthcare for others and paying them when they retire.

But if NYS or the USA ever does invade Poland, circumvent the Maginot Line and start building death camps for ethnic cleansing you be sure to let me know ok
 
OK, I tried to restrain myself. I succeeded for long enough. And now......
The USA will never be a "fascist" or a "nazi" state, as fascism is by default Italian while nazism is German. It can only become a dictatorship, either totalitarian or authoritarian, unless either Germany or Italy occupies the USA after remaking the mentioned parties.
...
Health care: Big Don, you'd be surprised if you'd ever visit Hungary. The government tried to eradicate the national insurance method, and the idea failed miserably. Simply because a small amount of money paid by everyone monthly is enough to keep the system working. Absolutely not perfectly, mind you - but with the American method, my girlfriend would be dead for a long time. I didn't visit any doctors in the last 3 years while I paid my taxes, and you know what? I don't think it was wasted money, and apparently about 7 million other Hungarians thought the same way. I can know for sure that if I ever get sick or injure myself enough to need medical care then I can rely on my right (proved by my insurance card checked by the hospital) to get sufficient medical care.
 
My personal opinion is that any "ism" or policatical partisan alliance is detrimental to the greater good. I think that the massive number of recent threads whose primary purpose is the "bash" and put down another set of beliefs is proof of that. Don't agree? Fine. Want to tell people that you don't agree? GREAT! But put people into two nice little groups and boy does it become easy to generalize and bash an huge portion of the population for the beliefs of a few. There is just as much diversity within each political party as there are religions or races or any other large portion of the population.

Ok, down off my soapbox. Personal opinions, obviously everyone's right to disagree. I just feel that when we get to the point of comparing the entire American liberal party to Nazis....we're on the verge of McCarthyism.

Couldn't have said it better, thank you for this.
 
The healthcare issue is one that deserves a discussion of it's own - in fact I think there is a thread about it buried somewhere. It's an important matter and one that actually does tie in with the way that pay-your-own-way-via-private-insurance method of funding healthcare has artificially inflated the costs around the globe.

It doesn't really fit here with a discussion of democratic-dictatorships (or is it fascist-anarchists :D?) other than as an exemplar.

Maybe the old thread can be bumped up? Or perhaps a new one started.
 
The healthcare issue is one that deserves a discussion of it's own - in fact I think there is a thread about it buried somewhere. It's an important matter and one that actually does tie in with the way that pay-your-own-way-via-private-insurance method of funding healthcare has artificially inflated the costs around the globe.

It doesn't really fit here with a discussion of democratic-dictatorships (or is it fascist-anarchists :D?) other than as an exemplar.

Maybe the old thread can be bumped up? Or perhaps a new one started.

I agree but which ever system is chosen by a country it doesn't make it Nazi led just because someone disagrees with someone elses political views.
 
Just wondering why there isnt this kind of reaction when people call Bush/the Bush Administration/Republicans Nazis.....
 
I agree but which ever system is chosen by a country it doesn't make it Nazi led just because someone disagrees with someone elses political views.

I think this is the key point here. One or even a whole bunch of policies cannot align a completely separate political party with naziism. There is simply a difference in very basic ideology...it isn't just about policies and social programs.

I really think that people should just be careful when throwing around the term Nazi. Its a pretty serious accuasation in my opinion. This may be the internet...so of course, anyone can say anything to anyone...and maybe I'm behind the times, but I for one still try to be careful about throwing generalizations and stereotypes out there.
 
Just wondering why there isnt this kind of reaction when people call Bush/the Bush Administration/Republicans Nazis.....

Personally, I'd feel the same way. I haven't seen it, because I pretty mush stay away from the Bush bashing threads....but I'd say that it is just as wrong. But then, I'm basically non-partisan and try to stay out of politics or political discussions the best that I can.
 
I think this is the key point here. One or even a whole bunch of policies cannot align a completely separate political party with naziism. There is simply a difference in very basic ideology...it isn't just about policies and social programs.

I really think that people should just be careful when throwing around the term Nazi. Its a pretty serious accuasation in my opinion. This may be the internet...so of course, anyone can say anything to anyone...and maybe I'm behind the times, but I for one still try to be careful about throwing generalizations and stereotypes out there.

I know many people to whom the word Nazi still brings fear, the victims of the 'real' Nazis. The Nazis who burned numbers into peoples arms, who killed millions because of their religion, their sexual orientation, they were disabled, a member of a trade union, the wrong colour and so on. To bandy the word nazi around merely to wind people up on the internet is childish at best, distasteful and hurtful at the very least and malicious probably.

No, you aren't behind the times,you have good sensibilities and a disinclination to hurt people for amusement.
 
Eh, I don't get this thread. The Nazis were also like the Democrats in that they invaded a country(countries) and waged a war that turned out to be unpopular; they were pro-defense spending, like the Republicans. How is this helpful? I could compare and contrast either party with the Boy Scouts of America too and find similarities and differences in each case (social service oriented, like the Dems.; anti-gay rights, like the Reps.). What this shows is that if you pick two objects that each have many qualities, some will likely be shared while some will probably not be shared.

What is the point of this exercise? Surely the term "nazi', when used today to describe a politician in the U.S., usually refers to their fervor and tenacity, not their genocidal tendencies (though an exception occurred here in my town a year or so ago)?
 
Should you be forced to pay for my health care?

If you don't have kids in public school, you still pay property taxes, which go to schools. For now on, people who do not have kids in public school, don't have to pay property taxes. You're taxes pay my wages. Fine, I don't get payed (being a Marine, and payed by the Federal Government and all). Never had to use the police, fine, you get a tax rebate for not having to pay for there wages. Never needed a firefighter? Fine, you get a tax rebate for not needing them. Which means, your taxes go down, but people who work for the government get screwed! It's the same principle, you may not need a cop, fire fighter, Marine, or school, but you still have to pay for it. You may not need government health care, but others will. And they may not be able to pay for it on there own.

Also, Sukerkin, you said we discuss this in anouther thread, it was open until recently. National Health Care (or Socialised Healthcare) is a Socialist policy (why do you think it's called Socialised, it's to make it evil by association).

Tez, yah I know. I had family that fought the Nazi's (Canadian, Russian, and American). And all things considered, I would be amased if I didn't have a distant cousin in a camp somewhere. I get pretty, well lets just say it, I get pretty pissed when people through the term Nazi around like this.
 
Interesting thought occurred to me this afternoon. "The Volkswagen"... if you can actually associate someone with the Nazi party because they believe in national healthcare insurance or welfare for the elderly then if you ever owned a Volkswagen you just might be a supporter of Hitler and if you ever drove or owned a Volkswagen Beetle you agree with the Third Reich.

You see Adolf Hitler submitted sketches to Ferdinand Porsche of a proposed Volks Wagen 1n 1933

And the KdF-Wagen (Kraft durch Freude [Strength through Joy]) was used in Germany during WW II and Kraft durch Freude was the official leisure organization in the Third Reich. The KdF-Wagen was latter called and renamed the Volkswagen Beetle.

Now none of this bodes well for me however... since I have already said that I am blonde and by heritage greater than 50% German, took German language in College and now with this, since I use to be a Volkswagen Mechanic... :uhoh: :rolleyes:

And I am fairly certain that Republicans and Democrats as well as Conservatives and Liberals are among the Ranks of Volkswagen owners and likely a few owned or own a beetle :uhohh: :rolleyes:
 
I read through part of this, have read the Nazi documents before and I think, rather than hack up part of a book in a poor, inflammatory attempt to claim American Liberalism is The Devil, a side-by-side analysis would hold more water.

This is the classic bastardization the right has become famous for - and you know what? It doesn't work anymore.

Socialized health care has worked in more countries (nothing's perfect) than it has not worked in. In fact, socialism itself is the reason Germany emerged from being one of the poorest nations in the world to one of the worlds largest superpowers.

Social security and welfare saved this country's poor and turned the population, over some years, into a thriving consumership - you know ... that bank of spending people enterprise relies upon for building wealth and creating economy.

The document you referenced, Big Don, is incomplete in your quotation AND is taken out of context with the entire book from which it was excised.

The DNC will not send armed military police into the homes of Jews, Blacks or even Illegal Aliens to rob them of their wealth and kill the owners in concentration camps.

The DNC will not confiscate properties nor businesses by use of military or civilian armed and violent forces.

Big Don - you apparently came here to gripe about Democrats bellyache about Liberalism in an egregious way. And it's all you do here, apparently. Howzabout you contribute to an art section? The one you study (or used to) perhaps?

And if this DNC = Nazi Party thing is something you got from the radio or some other conservative rag/blog, perhaps you might be better entertained by thinking for yourself.

Breathe, Don. There *IS* life after the Bush era.
 
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