Ring vs battlefield versions of MAs

[James Kovacich]

Show me where claimed such. I even said that I was merely an amateur fighter/hobbyist.



You seem to be reading way too much into what I post. Can you show me where I implied any of what you just made up about me? Otherwise you're just making up lies.

Not lies, assuming. You make a lot of claims none of which is backed up with history or experience. I think it is a reasonable assumption that by your "strong belief" that mma trumps everything else (no matter what the experienced board members tell you) that you are either very experienced in mma and have reason to believe in your art or you are not that experienced in mma and as far as this discussion goes, probably seeing your training with a bit of "tunnel vision" when comparing it to other styles. Its great you deeply believe in your training. But then so do a lot of kids with blackbelts who still have a lot to learn.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kong Soo Do]

was that the metacarpals on the pinkie side? if so, it's the classic "boxer's fracture".

Hairline fracture of the third metacarpal on the right hand.

 

[frank raud]

besides UFC was meant to showcase BJJ..

Can you prove this? It's not BJJ's fault that it whooped up on all of those oblivious to ground fighting, including Judokas, wreslters, shoot-fighters, etc. who Gracie dominated.

Let's see if this makes sense to you. Art Davies, who was the promoter, was a student of the Gracies. His partners in the original promotions included Rorion Gracie. If you believe that a group that trains and promotes BJJ (or GJJ) develop a tournament format featuring their fighting style did not do it to showcase BJJ, when they set the rules, chose the competitors, etc. that is your choice. It is quite obvious to anyone looking at it objectively.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Let's see if this makes sense to you. Art Davies, who was the promoter, was a student of the Gracies. His partners in the original promotions included Rorion Gracie. If you believe that a group that trains and promotes BJJ (or GJJ) develop a tournament format featuring their fighting style did not do it to showcase BJJ, when they set the rules, chose the competitors, etc. that is your choice. It is quite obvious to anyone looking at it objectively.

Bill Wallace made commentary on this back at that time. His view was that it was designed from the ground up so-to-speak, specifically for the ground game of BJJ/GJJ. It is interesting to note how the pendulum has swung back towards striking and kicking strategies. Having a solid base in standing as well as ground tactics is necessary these days.

 

[James Kovacich]

It was a wakeup call for martialist that ignored the ground. It came full circle when standup fighters became competent on the ground forcing the groundfighters to also become more competent on their feet leading to what would become MMA the sport.

The Gracies were great promoters and they did a good job but they were not the 1st in America to train that way. The late Tarow Hayashi was my brother-in-laws instructor and he was teaching his version of it the '70's.
http://www.hayashismartialarts.com/Classes_Bujutsu.html
He called it Free Form Combat and when I was taught, my brother-in-law called it Kumiuchi. They were professional full contact fighters.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kong Soo Do]

It was a wakeup call for martialist that ignored the ground. It came full circle when standup fighters became competent on the ground forcing the groundfighters to also become more competent on their feet leading to what would become MMA the sport.

The Gracies were great promoters and they did a good job but they were not the 1st in America to train that way. The late Tarow Hayashi was my brother-in-laws instructor and he was teaching his version of it the '70's.
http://www.hayashismartialarts.com/Classes_Bujutsu.html
He called it Free Form Combat and when I was taught, my brother-in-law called it Kumiuchi. They were professional full contact fighters.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

There was also Karl Gotch with his catch-as-catch-can submission wrestling. As far as I know, he still holds the record for Hindu squats at 9001 in 4 1/2 hours. That's triple tough!

 

[James Kovacich]

I've always like catch wrestling. When you look closely they have good submissions that are largely overlooked because the ground grappling community "in general" trains techniques usable for competition.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mz1]

Not lies, assuming. You make a lot of claims none of which is backed up with history or experience. I think it is a reasonable assumption that by your "strong belief" that mma trumps everything else (no matter what the experienced board members tell you) that you are either very experienced in mma and have reason to believe in your art or you are not that experienced in mma and as far as this discussion goes, probably seeing your training with a bit of "tunnel vision" when comparing it to other styles. Its great you deeply believe in your training. But then so do a lot of kids with blackbelts who still have a lot to learn.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, you're making up lies. And experience in many years of pretend-fighting and scared to spar regularly for knockouts means nothing to me. Which is the crux of my argument in regards to why MMA is better. So the same tunnel vision argument can be applied to your side also. And ditto to you having a lot to learn and should start with by sparring for KO's....for the first time.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hairline fracture of the third metacarpal on the right hand.

Third Metacarpal, is that the one behind the ring finger?

 

[Mz1]

Let's see if this makes sense to you. Art Davies, who was the promoter, was a student of the Gracies. His partners in the original promotions included Rorion Gracie. If you believe that a group that trains and promotes BJJ (or GJJ) develop a tournament format featuring their fighting style did not do it to showcase BJJ, when they set the rules, chose the competitors, etc. that is your choice. It is quite obvious to anyone looking at it objectively.

You've made no argument at all. All MA tournaments are usually conducted by MA'ist anyway, how the heck is this unusual? And obviously, these organizing MA'ists usually belongs to certain camp(s), how is this unusual? The UFC was opened to any type of MA. Most TMA's don't even allow other types of arts to compete in their tourneys. How is the UFC allowing ALL types of fighter, biased as you falsely claimed?

And tell me WHAT RULES favored the grapplers/BJJ as compared to all the rules in existence for all types of COMBAT SPORTS in the USA during that time, 1993? Tell me, what other tournament in the USA had less rules than the UFC 1-4? There were ONLY THREE RULES....no biting, no eye gouging and no fish-hooking....but they didn't DQ the fighter, just $1k fine/incident. They could still win the tourney + $60,000 prize if they bit, eye gouged and/or fish-hooked. But everything else was fine, including nut strikes, eye poking, throat strikes, strikes to the spine, kidneys, etc.

You tell me what other tournament in existent at that time (1993) that allowed these strikes in the USA. Sure as heck none of your TMA's allowed any of this nor even came close to the level of brutality/realism of UFC 1-4.

 

[Mz1]

Bill Wallace made commentary on this back at that time. His view was that it was designed from the ground up so-to-speak, specifically for the ground game of BJJ/GJJ.

Can you prove how this even makes any sense? Which UFC 1-4 rule favored the grappler?

They actually started making rules to favor the standup strikers because it got too boring for most ignorant viewers (rednecks, standup TMA's, etc.) who couldn't appreciate the level of techniques being displayed on the ground....by standing them up and then later, time limits and finally, timed rounds.

And the reason it's more standup now is due to Dana White making it known to the fighters that he wants to see action packed fights, by eluding to wanting to see more standup KO's. I don't blame White for this, as he succeeded in rescuing the UFC from near bankruptcy in its early days. But if you want close as possible to a real fight, the Gracies and Davies had it the closest that it could ever be during the early UFC's, especially UFC 1-4.

Name ONE.....just one, TMA tournament in the USA from 1993-present time, that is more realistic than UFC 1-4 or even the current UFC's.

 

[jks9199]

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Please keep the conversation polite & respectful.

jks9199
ASst. Admin

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Third Metacarpal, is that the one behind the ring finger?

Yes sir, I believe that is correct. I think that also qualifies as a 'boxers' fracture.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Third Metacarpal, is that the one behind the ring finger?

No. The ring finger is #4.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

No. The ring finger is #4.

Ah, I guess I forgot about the thumb :uhyeah:

 

[The Last Legionary]

Yes, you're making up lies. And experience in many years of pretend-fighting and scared to spar regularly for knockouts means nothing to me. Which is the crux of my argument in regards to why MMA is better. So the same tunnel vision argument can be applied to your side also. And ditto to you having a lot to learn and should start with by sparring for KO's....for the first time.

So you suggest going out full tilt and knocking people out or being knocked out?

I thought Chris Benoit was dead.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ah, I guess I forgot about the thumb :uhyeah:

ah yes, me too. So the fracture was the third, being behind the naughty finger. Not quite what I think they refer to as the "boxer's fracture", but quite possibly still a result of not being so familiar with punching without handwraps and gloves.

I'm speculating, of course. I don't know how the encounter went down.

 

[James Kovacich]

Yes, you're making up lies. And experience in many years of pretend-fighting and scared to spar regularly for knockouts means nothing to me. Which is the crux of my argument in regards to why MMA is better. So the same tunnel vision argument can be applied to your side also. And ditto to you having a lot to learn and should start with by sparring for KO's....for the first time.

Your confusing me with someone else. I've never described how I train in this thread or any conversation with you on this forum. Maybe you should re-read what you think I said.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dirty Dog]

ah yes, me too. So the fracture was the third, being behind the naughty finger. Not quite what I think they refer to as the "boxer's fracture", but quite possibly still a result of not being so familiar with punching without handwraps and gloves.

I'm speculating, of course. I don't know how the encounter went down.

The classic "boxers fracture" is of the 4th or 5th metacarpal, (which are caused by just plain punching incorrectly) but the term can also include the 2nd and 3rd, especially if the fracture was caused by punching something.

 

[frank raud]

You've made no argument at all. All MA tournaments are usually conducted by MA'ist anyway, how the heck is this unusual? And obviously, these organizing MA'ists usually belongs to certain camp(s), how is this unusual? The UFC was opened to any type of MA. Most TMA's don't even allow other types of arts to compete in their tourneys. How is the UFC allowing ALL types of fighter, biased as you falsely claimed?

Hmm, interesting. If you don't agree with what I say, I am lying. Seeing as the majority of your posts consist of telling everyone that they are wasting their time by doing anything other than MMA, arguing about what people think you said, or calling folks liars, I don't need to hear any more from you. Thankfully there is the ignore feature.