Rant: Placing value in yourself based on others' accomplishments
- Thread starter miguksaram
- Start date
Well, maybe you hang out with different parts of the general public than I do. Or maybe it's just a Texas thing. I suppose I should have said, "In my experience..." but then, since that's what we all are speaking from, I thought it unnecessary. My bad.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Dude. I don't think you understood my point, but I'm on a phone and typing more Than a sentence or two is more than I cam do right now. I probably didn't explain myself well but it'll have to wait.
While certain things in the arts annoy the hell out of me, and while I do complain about them, I also realize theres nothing I can do about it. There are many Kenpo people who do things that IMO, are less then proper, sure I call them on it, and it pisses them off, but oh well. In the end, they're the ones that will have to pay the piper, so to speak, and have to face the questions.
On the other hand, it does in a way, make the art look bad. So, when people act like an *** in the Kenpo world, and I tell people I do Kenpo, I now have to make an excuse for the others. People are going to paint the picture that they see. If I look at TKD and see a bunch of kids running around who arent old enough to drive yet they're wearing 3rd degree Black Belts, frankly I think its a friggin joke, but I'm left with the impression that all TKD dojos are a joke, that they're mcdojos, and from what I've seen, many are. For those that are in TKD that dont fall into that category, I for one, would be ashamed of what the others are doing.
I know that this may come as a shock to you guys, but I think I disagree with almost every one of you.
Speaking to the Harvard BA metaphor, people would have an understandable concern if their specific degree was being devalued. If Harvard began opening satellite campuses throughout the country (or world?) and offering degree programs with let's say "relaxed" standards, this would specifically devalue your own (and everyone's) Harvard degree. This is particularly true if your own degree was earned in relatively close proximity to the perceived (or real) lowering of Harvard's standards.
In the same way, if I earn a black belt in BJJ now, it may be seen as less of an accomplishment than it might have been 10 years ago. And in 10 years from now, the standards may indeed have slipped. This is very specific to my own acheivement and should I ever aspire to teach and in turn promote my own students, it would be to my benefit to protect the value of my acheivement.
While I think that perspective should be maintained, I can completely understand how people can be concerned over the state of grading or promotion within their specific organizations.
Speaking of BJJ, heres a question....now, I'm not as active in my BJJ school as I used to be, but seems to me, the 10yr time frame is still in effect for BB, right? So, if thats the case, then unless someone is on the last level as a BJ Penn, then I doubt the average person will get a BB as quick as you'd see someone in TKD get one. In other words, if a child starts BJJ classes, are they going to be black belt level in 2yrs? I'd have to say no. So, here you have a very popular art...BJJ...which draws in many people, due to the popularity, the UFC, etc., and those people seem to be content waiting that length of time. Hey, maybe there are BJJ mcdojos too, I dont know, but from what I've seen, the norm is 10yrs. If people can wait that long in BJJ, why not wait that long in TKD, or any other art?
Question for you. Do you feel that that is all that matters for the test? All that matters is that the child can make it thru the test and not have to worry about how the material looks, whether or not they can explain it, teach it, etc.? I mean, IMO, theres more to it than how well a kid can do in competition or whether or not they can get thru the physical part of the test.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...if someone can slap on a 3rd degree on a 12yo kid, that same kid better be able to know that material inside and out.
ATC
Senior Master
Uhhhh...Yes. We all are, not just him. I know everyone wants to think that their rose smells the best but there are many doing what we all do and more. Just as there are many that we do more than but none of us are king of the mountain.
ATC
Senior Master
I am only giveing one example. He already teaches and assists. All black belts are required too, even Jr. black belts. I have already stated that adults have a better grasps of the concepts and principle but kids at 12 that have been doing and studying since 4 will be light years ahead once they reach adult hood. Like I stated it is good to learn and master the physicle while young all the while learning the philosophies and concepts. That is just how regular school is. You start as a child and build as you age and grow. But guess what? Some kids excel at school and learn much faster than others. Some even go to college at 10 and 11.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I live in australia so maybe we are alittle different over here but I find the general public still hold a black belt in very high esteem. Even my mates have unrealistic views of what a black belt means , I think they think I could take out a whole room of people with a single kick , its actually quite funny.
At the end of the day, you are responsible for only 1 person's successes and failures.
That's You.
Doesn't matter what anyone else does or doesn't do.
12,000 other people buy a black belt, you earn yours.
Feel proud at your accomplishment, don't feel cheapened by their lack of the same.
That's You.
Doesn't matter what anyone else does or doesn't do.
12,000 other people buy a black belt, you earn yours.
Feel proud at your accomplishment, don't feel cheapened by their lack of the same.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
Given that your son seems to be younger than 13, it surprises me that he trains in a fashion where hard physical contact is expected as a matter of course. I'm not talking about an occasional hard whack across the hogu. The way I trained in the eighties we wore nothing other than footpads and hand guards. Punching to the face was common and developed. Plenty of bloody noses and fat lips, the occasional black eye and knocked out tooth or even a KO period.
I can't fathom a boy training in that fashion in today's litigious environment.
IMO, it seems as if you're lumping all young kids into the same group. Again, I may be wrong, but thats the way it seems. So, going on your logic, a kid that started at 4, is going to be light years ahead. Ok...so on that same logic, that young kid is going to be capable of comprehending the material at that young age? If they're going to supposedly be 'light years' ahead of everyone else, then that tells me, that you're going to be explaining the fine points of something, to a kid thats not old enough to drive.
There will always be exceptions to the group, and yes, Ive seen it with my own 2 eyes, when I would teach. But, that number is so small, that it doesn't outweigh the others that are not 'light years' ahead.
Out of curiosity, and I may have missed it, but how old is your child that you're describing? They teach a class on their own? If so, what is the age group that they're teaching?
What if BA's didn't come with the school they were received at? One from Harvard means more than the local college because you KNOW where it was obtained. Black belts aren't like this at all.
NPTKD
Brown Belt
It's funny I read these post about rank and dan certificates and all I hear is nobody cares about where or from who your dan certificate comes from but, god forbid a six year old should share the same rank as us old timers who trained back in the day!
So we will lable them a McDojang or something else to show other that no little 70 pound kid could do what i have done!
I was reading this article on Erine Reyes Jr. I said that when he was in his teens and was competing he was beating adult fighters, so the tournament promoters started the age brackets to keep him out of the adult divisions.
So we will lable them a McDojang or something else to show other that no little 70 pound kid could do what i have done!
I was reading this article on Erine Reyes Jr. I said that when he was in his teens and was competing he was beating adult fighters, so the tournament promoters started the age brackets to keep him out of the adult divisions.
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NPTKD
Brown Belt
Back in the day boxers didn't wear gloves. And just look at football back then and now. Their were alot of great boxers and football players back then, but they didn't last very long in their sports. Times change, safety systems and gear requirements change. Are you really a better Martial art person because you got the crap kicked out of you and lost a tooth? I know alot of guy's who have had the same thing done to them in bars on Saturday nights who have never trained in the martial arts!
With all that said, I don't like the kids with Black belts ether, But it seems that they are the large portion of the school that will commit to training and reach that level. I do Poom for them, not Dan.
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Actually yes. Thats why those guys from bar fights often can beat well trained fighters. They are used to taking and giving punishment in a live environment. The best laid plans change when you get clocked for real. Training for real combat is different than fighting points and in marshmellow suits.
Just as sparring sport style is a key element in learning timing and distance, real contact takes that to the next level as well.
Dave O.
Just as sparring sport style is a key element in learning timing and distance, real contact takes that to the next level as well.
Dave O.
Did I hit a nerve? As I've said, in the end, its the person giving the rank out and the person getting it, that have to live with the comments that other people make. I just find it very funny that people have lost the value of the belt. People act like its something that should be handed out after X amount of time is put in, or as long as the person does well in a tournament, or trains 10 times a week. People can be shown something and say, "Yeah, I got it!" but do they really? Is it so perfect, that no errors can be found? Are there stances really that sharp? If someone wants to make some leeway for a lower rank, thats fine, but once you start testing for the upper ranks, especially BB level, that person should look like a BB, not a yellow belt.
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