Rant: Placing value in yourself based on others' accomplishments

[elder999]

Only if the black belt knows that the other is a white belt. If the black belt assumes the other has the same experience as him/her than all bets are off.

Which has, of course, been the real reason for belt ranking from the beginning, and points to some of the reasons for the original post: if two black belts in system X face off, and one of them is....I dunno....me: 6'2", 230 lbs., and once called by one sensei, "Positively homicidal." (this was, of course, before the subway incident...) against a 7, no make that a 12 year old black belt: 5'5", 100 lbs., are "all bets off?"

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A white belt "going up against a black belt" is usually safer than a white belt "going up against a white belt."

In general, I agree, though it also depends upon the quality of the black belt in question.

With regards to your comment, at the last competition I competed in, there was a yellow belt gent in his mid forties who was legally blind. He could see, but not at all well. He competed with myself and others in the "super executive" class. The tournament officials asked if he was sure he wanted to compete with us because everyone else in the super executive class were black belts. His Kwan-jang said, "only black belt opponents. I don't want my student to get hurt. Colored belts do not have enough control."

Daniel

 

[ATC]

I don't want my student to get hurt. Colored belts do not have enough control."

Daniel

Such a true statement. I hate sparing color belts. Not because of the control (techniques is too bad for lack of control to hurt me) but because of the bad techniques that have me colliding knee on knee and their knees into my hips, because of a lack of distance understanding. Not to mention all the qroin shots due to lack of flexibility and timing.

Now for SD color belts are the best because they come at as someone on the street would.

 

[ATC]

Only if the black belt knows that the other is a white belt. If the black belt assumes the other has the same experience as him/her than all bets are off.

Or if said Black Belts cares. Some people just don't care who is in front of them.

 

[Stac3y]

I'm a brown belt, so my role in sparring with color belts is to be a human punching bag (or so I'm told). The worst ones are the orange or green belt men--they're strong, and have started to learn some okay techniques, but they don't have a lot of control, and they tend to be very....er... enthusiastic. Groin is a fair shot for us, btw. What I hate is getting kicked in the legs. Sparring the color belts is really good for my blocking, though. :wink2:

 

[Gorilla]

"You posted a very detailed description of your son's test and training regimen, so while you did not come out and make the blanket statement that ten and younger kids deserve a black belt, you did make the case that your son does." Daniel Sulivan

One last clarification. The reason that i posted my sons training and standards is because people assumed that i was the parent that you described. I am in agreement that Youth Black Belts are questionable. I like the Poom rank that you suggested. The only person that I personally know is mango man. His daughter is extremely skilled and from what I have observed just a great young lady. My kids are of the same caliber and in the end the rank that they carry does not matter. The only reason rank becomes a concern is competition and their future in TKD.

 

[mango.man]

One last clarification. The reason that i posted my sons training and standards is because people assumed that i was the parent that you described. I am in agreement that Youth Black Belts are questionable. I like the Poom rank that you suggested. The only person that I personally know is mango man. His daughter is extremely skilled and from what I have observed just a great young lady. My kids are of the same caliber and in the end the rank that they carry does not matter. The only reason rank becomes a concern is competition and their future in TKD.

Your kids are pretty OK too Mr. B. and both very much deserving of the rank that they hold and the competitive record that they have worked so hard at achieving. I believe that they will both go far in the sport and in TKD as a way of life.

Now if you don't mind I need to go get ready to drive 90 minutes and watch my daughter (Started at age 5 / 1st Poom at age 9 / 2nd Poom at age 13 / Tested for, and presumably passed her 3rd Dan test earlier this year at age 16, although no new rank has been issued yet) do the standard 2 hour "Friday Night Fights" at which "Blood, Sweat and Tears" are all a pretty common site at our school and then drive 90 minutes back home. It's 5:30 now and I will be home somewhere around 10:30-11, at which time we will all go to sleep so that we can wake up early tomorrow and do it all again for morning class.

G-Night all!!!

 

[Gorilla]

Thanks Charles...Sam is only getting better...I have been watching her since 2004...She never seems to quit and that you cannot teach...By the way the Team X is one of the best teams in the country. You are very lucky to have Tim. See you at the next Tourney!!!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

One last clarification. The reason that i posted my sons training and standards is because people assumed that i was the parent that you described.

Which was pretty much my point. Regardless of how hard your kids work or how good their training may be, once on an internet forum there are a good number of people who will dismiss you as soon as you say that your child who is under fifteen has a black belt. They have their reasons, which have been enumerated on both threads already, so no need to rehash.

Generally, I will not assume much of anything about other posters their schools beyond what they say. It is way too easy to make assumptions about another poster, their instructor or school.

In any case, I thank you for the earlier compliment. Likewise, I do enjoy your posts. I do not always agree with you, but I think that you present your points well.

Not to mention, you have taken a lot of criticism on this and the other thread and have remained cordial. I respect that.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

This post I agree with 100%. It is what I have been looking for an unbiased well thought out rational way of looking at competition and youth black belts.
Thank you very much I believe that this is the best post that I have seen on this subject. Now if we could just get it implemented.

One school at a time is about the only way. I do not see the Kukkiwon changing it anytime soon.

Certainly, I can live with the system as it is. It is a belt system. Use at as a tool or discard it, but in the end it is not worth getting upset over. It does indeed generate some lively conversation though.

As for competition, I think that it has value both as a sport and for the art. One thing that it does do is demonstrate that taekwondoists can use those kicks against resisting opponents. Just wish the hand techs were represented as well, but I suppose that that is already done in the sportive aspects of Karate and the ITF.

Thank you Daniel, your posts are way better than some which have called be a fool, and suggested that our master should be slapped. I really appreciate your post. I cannot say enough your post was great!!!

Aw, shucks.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

i'll say it again too,

IMO your instructor is ROBBING you and you need to wake up and realize it.

 

[Gorilla]

i'll say it again too,

IMO your instructor is ROBBING you and you need to wake up and realize it.

He has trained my kids to be very good at the sport that they have chosen. He is is an honest man with integrity. I have said many times. He charges minimum fees. I am wide a wake. I don't think that your insults reflect very well on you. Nor do they represent the values that you expound. You refuse to listen because it does not fit your agenda.

 

[Gorilla]

Your kids are pretty OK too Mr. B. and both very much deserving of the rank that they hold and the competitive record that they have worked so hard at achieving. I believe that they will both go far in the sport and in TKD as a way of life.

Now if you don't mind I need to go get ready to drive 90 minutes and watch my daughter (Started at age 5 / 1st Poom at age 9 / 2nd Poom at age 13 / Tested for, and presumably passed her 3rd Dan test earlier this year at age 16, although no new rank has been issued yet) do the standard 2 hour "Friday Night Fights" at which "Blood, Sweat and Tears" are all a pretty common site at our school and then drive 90 minutes back home. It's 5:30 now and I will be home somewhere around 10:30-11, at which time we will all go to sleep so that we can wake up early tomorrow and do it all again for morning class.

G-Night all!!!

Oh No the cat is out of the bag. You will be branded a fool and it will be suggested that your Coach be slapped. People assume much and talk without knowing. The irony of it all is that both of our coaches would think that we are foolish for wasting our time posting on these forums. I am strangely addicted can't seem to stop. I guess its better than drinking or gambling.

 

[ATC]

He has trained my kids to be very good at the sport that they have chosen. He is is an honest man with integrity. I have said many times. He charges minimum fees. I am wide a wake. I don't think that your insults reflect very well on you. Nor do they represent the values that you expound. You refuse to listen because it does not fit your agenda.

You know what you know so just say it once and let those that think others wise do so. Nothing you can do. Hope to see you guys at the US Open. Just made my hotel reservations as it is cheap right now. Got a room at the MGM for only 50 bucks a night. See you there.

 

[Ceicei]

Now if you don't mind I need to go get ready to drive 90 minutes and watch my daughter (Started at age 5 / 1st Poom at age 9 / 2nd Poom at age 13 / Tested for, and presumably passed her 3rd Dan test earlier this year at age 16, although no new rank has been issued yet)

I'm a bit confused. Why would it go 1st Poom, 2nd Poom, then 3rd Dan? Shouldn't it be 1st Poom, 2nd Poom, then 1st Dan when becoming 16? If not, then is this to suggest that the 1st and 2nd Pooms are the equivalent of 1st and 2nd Dan (the assumption of the difference being in age, if study materials remain the same)? I would have thought that the Pooms study differently, with the Dans being more extensive with their black belt materials.

- Ceicei

 

[NPTKD]

Oh No the cat is out of the bag. You will be branded a fool and it will be suggested that your Coach be slapped. People assume much and talk without knowing. The irony of it all is that both of our coaches would think that we are foolish for wasting our time posting on these forums. I am strangely addicted can't seem to stop. I guess its better than drinking or gambling.

It's a funny thing isn't! A total waste time. But I like you, have a hard time staying away. Every once and a while you can really find some good infromation here. I spend so much time in the dojang....... Anyway with this guy, you really are wasting your time and your breath.

 

[mango.man]

I'm a bit confused. Why would it go 1st Poom, 2nd Poom, then 3rd Dan? Shouldn't it be 1st Poom, 2nd Poom, then 1st Dan when becoming 16? If not, then is this to suggest that the 1st and 2nd Pooms are the equivalent of 1st and 2nd Dan (the assumption of the difference being in age, if study materials remain the same)? I would have thought that the Pooms study differently, with the Dans being more extensive with their black belt materials.

- Ceicei

As has been covered ad-infinitum, in this thread and others, poom ranks automagically become dan ranks at age 15 in the eyes of the Kukkiwon. In both the "traditional" schools and the sport only school that we have been at over years there has been no differentiation between poom and dan ranks as both were taught together at the same time and the same expectations were placed on both.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

As has been covered ad-infinitum, in this thread and others, poom ranks automagically become dan ranks at age 15 in the eyes of the Kukkiwon. In both the "traditional" schools and the sport only school that we have been at over years there has been no differentiation between poom and dan ranks as both were taught together at the same time and the same expectations were placed on both.

Yup. I believe that there is paperwork that must be filed and registered by the student's instructor, but no retesting or starting over, unless the Kukkiwon has automated it (would not surprise me).

The assumption is that if a student is first poom, then second poom when they are under fifteen and they continue to stick with it, then by the time they are fifteen, their bodies are developed and hopefully, they have the maturity of a first or second dan (I say hopefully because as we all know, there are grown adults who lack the maturity of some ten year old white belts). They then test for third dan at this point.

For those doing the math, yes, that means that a student who tests for third dan at fifteen will be eligible to test at eighteen.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Your kids are pretty OK too Mr. B. and both very much deserving of the rank that they hold and the competitive record that they have worked so hard at achieving. I believe that they will both go far in the sport and in TKD as a way of life.

Now if you don't mind I need to go get ready to drive 90 minutes and watch my daughter (Started at age 5 / 1st Poom at age 9 / 2nd Poom at age 13 / Tested for, and presumably passed her 3rd Dan test earlier this year at age 16, although no new rank has been issued yet) do the standard 2 hour "Friday Night Fights" at which "Blood, Sweat and Tears" are all a pretty common site at our school and then drive 90 minutes back home. It's 5:30 now and I will be home somewhere around 10:30-11, at which time we will all go to sleep so that we can wake up early tomorrow and do it all again for morning class.

G-Night all!!!

Congrats to your daughter, sir!

Daniel