Proof of a Higher Power

[Scout_379]

Also, since there are so many different opinions here,

If you are agnostic, or atheist, what makes you question religion, and the existence of god, or like beings?

 

[Jay Bell]

If you are agnostic, or atheist, what makes you question religion, and the existence of god, or like beings?

Because nothing I have ever seen, researched or discussed has proven anything beyond the Bible being a fictional storybook...albeit, a great one.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Also, since there are so many different opinions here,

If you are agnostic, or atheist, what makes you question religion, and the existence of god, or like beings?

I no longer really question religion because I now understand it to be a frame of mind, rather than any specific set of doctrines. Religion, after all, doesn't have to be about the afterlife; you can be "religious", or should I say religiously believe in, just about any subject (politics, music, women, you name it).

As for the existence of God or like deities, I don't really believe in them (note, I didn't say that I belive they don't exist) because the only arguments for them are circular ones that are based on religious beliefs and nothing more. There's no proof or rationale behind saying that the universe is controlled by God as opposed to Allah, or the Buddha, or a great emptiness, or whatever. Every argument for God existence, for example, could easily argue for the existence of any other deity by simply replacing their names in the sentences. It's all dogma, in other words.

 

[Scout_379]

Which is exactly why I asked why specific people believe. Their personal experiences, not what has been told or read.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Dear RPetc:

*chuckles*

Please actually read the posts before mine.

I did.

And Christians have burned folks at the stake a lot more recently than agnostics have...actually, wait a sec! We have no records of agnostics burning anybody at the stake because they're not agnostics!! Or launching a crusade to liberate the Holy Land from Christians!!!

Ah, so you mean the literal stake-burnings, as opposed to the metaphorical ones MM was referring to in the current discourse, and these happened how long ago?

Well, some more modern examples might be abortion-clinic bombings, you might say, and valid enough. But some other modern examples, certainly more recent than the $&*!ing Crusades or Inquisition, might include the murder of how many thousands during Stalin's rule in the secular Soviet Union? Or on this side of the pond, there's the Rosenberg (did I get their name right?) executions, killed for espousing communist views.

In short, killing people for not believing the same as you is hardly restricted to just Christian beliefs. We could make arguments about what dogmas have the highest kill count, but I think my point still stands.

Why, I'll be gosh-darned.

Quite.

 

[michaeledward]

hey everyone. hehe, of course you don't want to go to hell. SO CHOOSE JESUS!! He won't let you just choose Him and NEVER show up in your life. You start showing your FRUIT. . . . .

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

. . .been RAISED from death, and YOU WILL BE SAVED!! Jesus says whoever confesses me before men, i too will confess before my Father. Trust!! Ask Jesus to come into your heart, He will if you want Him to.

Josh, I am going to quote myself now ... try reading carefully, because this is what I asked you to do.

I want you to explain to me the concept of sin, without invoking 'God'.

Now, Josh .. you missed. You completely missed. I am truly not interested in your prostelytizing. I asked a simple question, offering you the chance to speak to me in a language that I understand. Instead, you rant on like someone in a foreign country who believes that by speaking louder, your language will be understood. From this, I can only draw an interpretation of your intelligence, or lack thereof.

Well, let me say this about your post ... you're right ... God has shown me the "FRUIT".

Have a wonderful day. Mike

 

[Scout_379]

This is hopeless, can't you guys see that? What do you think you will gain from this?

 

[michaeledward]

If you are agnostic, or atheist, what makes you question religion, and the existence of god, or like beings?

I don't know who originally turned the statement on its head, but after hearing the statement "Man creates God in his own Image", and learning a bit about the different faiths around the world, and the societies from which they sprung, the statement certainly seems axiomatic.

Also, studying the scientific knowledge of the universe, and the rise of mankind, it just seems like an incredibly far-reaching stretch to think that God created the Universe 14+ Billion years ago, so that in the last 2000 years mankind can be taught the purpose of "His Will".

Compartively, someone has argued the purpose of the universe is equivelent to layer of paint at the very apex of the Effiel Tower. All the structure, is irrelevant, just the paint at the top.

 

[michaeledward]

This is hopeless, can't you guys see that? What do you think you will gain from this?

Yes, Scout .. I can see that ... and that is what my last post to Josh indicated. I understand that he is incapable of hearing me.

Now, you may say, that I am not better, because I responded to him. I am not trying to convert him away from his beliefs, I am trying to get him to tell me about his beliefs in a way that I can understand.

"First Seek to Understand, then to be Understood."

I don't know who said that ... but, I've heard it somewhere before.

Mike

 

[Josh]

you CAN be sure of Salvation. if you turn from sin, shun evil, and make every effort and take up your cross and walk everyday receiving Jesus as your MASTER, showing others what Jesus has done for you, you will be saved.

and how can you explain sin without talking about God, sin is the OPPOSITE of everything Christlike and Godly. I told you have a CONSCIENCE. God gave you a CONSCIENCE so you know what's right and wrong. That leads to guilt, a need for repentance and Jesus as your comeplete SUBSTITUTE on the Cross.

satan LOVES it that you don't believe. why give satan your ENEMY that benefeit, if you're NOT FOR GOD, you're AGAINST, NO IN BETWEEN.

 

[Mark Weiser]

Maybe someday I will explain my life experiences in the following areas. It is related to this topic.

• Ordained Minister for about 15 years
• Converted over to Judaism as a Rightesous Gentile

So I have a unique perspective on this topic. The problem within the human condition is the need to belong a sense of being whole if you chose to fill that gap with organized religion then more power to you. Some fill the need by social groups, Education, Work, Sex, Family, etc.....

The key is that we all will die someday and the key is how we lived our lifes and made this world a better place since we were born. In Judaism we have a saying "To heal the world" We have responsibilities to each other and to ourselves to be our best and give our best. If we save one life and make the person better we have saved the World.

 

[Jay Bell]

Good post, Mark

 

[kenpo tiger]

It is the extremists in ALL religions (my apologies for the caps) who are the ones that need to be saved - from themselves.

Those who believe (or not) don't have to tell the world how they believe, or why, or not. KT

 

[Josh]

yea, i know what ya'll mean. but one day, many think in the near future, Christians aren't gonna be tolerated anymore. i'm sure ya'll have heard of the antichrist or whatever, but what some of ya'll don't know is that people are gonna be deceived into beleiving that he's the Messiah. he will stand in the temple of God in Jerusalem and sacrifice a pig and claim that he is God. he'll be what you could say the president of the world. requiring that all people receive a mark in their right hand or forehead, but God promises that those who do take this mark will be tormented with God's judgements and won't receive the awesome salvation of Jesus Christ. are you gonna be deceived? you don't have to be, do you think Jesus doesn't know your heart and mind? even your thoughts He knows.

CHOOSE Him, like i said, He already knows what you'll choose. So if you DO, willingly, admitting your sin, and REPENT of it, and Trust Jesus AS God's only begotten Son!! What, do you think He wants to hurt you that you are just so unwilling to accept Him. God cuts off those branches in Christ that don't bear fruit and are thrown into the fire. I know you feel that this is unfair, but God doesn't WANT you to go to hell. i keep talking about hell in order to motivate you. There is a world system in power as of now. All unrighteoussnes can be clensed if you CONFESS your sins to God. God is GOOD. If you realize that, that Truth SETS YOU FREE.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Beyond my agreement about fanaticism, I'd suggest that Josh would do well to read a little more of his Bible and a little less of the, "Left Behind," series.

 

[Mark Weiser]

It would be so easy to get off Topic here lol!

Keeping my tougue in check!!

 

[Scout_379]

yet again....josh

...why do you believe...​

?​

What is your personal evidence for the existence of God.

I can read a bible all by myself

 

[Josh]

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/prophesy.html

check that site out, explains much that you need to know. But another thing, which is amazing, ya'll ever heard of hellen keller, she is quoted in expressing that although she could not see, could not hear, she still knew that God was there.

Look at the stars, the moon, the sun, sky, all of CREATION!! How wonderfully made we are!

Are you satisfied with "oh, we came from a monkeys"? That would mean Jesus too came from a monkey, meaning God wanted the descendent of a monkey to save us from our sins. Hahahaha!

 

[Mark Weiser]

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/prophesy.html

check that site out, explains much that you need to know. But another thing, which is amazing, ya'll ever heard of hellen keller, she is quoted in expressing that although she could not see, could not hear, she still knew that God was there.

Look at the stars, the moon, the sun, sky, all of CREATION!! How wonderfully made we are!

Are you satisfied with "oh, we came from a monkeys"? That would mean Jesus too came from a monkey, meaning God wanted the descendent of a monkey to save us from our sins. Hahahaha!

You are or have assumed that this Jesus is the saviour of the world and is the so called Son of God. In debate classes or forensics classes most Chiristians would be hard pressed to come up with the needed evidence to convince another that this Jesus is the Son of God. In most cases evidence is required from at least three sources in order to be established as a fact. The only evidence that Jesus even existed is only in the Bible. There are no secular sources from Muslim, Jewish or Christian sources such Flavius Josephus,Herodotus,Livy,Tacitus all whom lived in Greece, Rome, Israel during or within 20-30 years after the time of Jesus whom never mention him once in all the writings they have written.

Just stating this for an interesting debate.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Josh, you might also do well to read some of Darwin's great work, "The Origin of Species and the Descent of Man," as well as some of Stephen Jay Gould's writing, so that you'll have a little more ammo than fourth-hand, radically-ignorant, grossly-inaccurate interpretations of evolutionary theory.

Among other things, evolution does not at any point claim that human beings descended from apes or monkeys.

As always, I wonder why folks are so frightened of the immense, beautiful universe that they live in, that they cannot even actually look at what it contains. And I wonder why folks are so angry at the long chain of men and women who have labored, over so long, to see that universe for what it is, and to teach others how to do the same.

Three smacks with a copy of Twain's, "Extract from Cap'n Stormfield's Visit to Heaven."