Proof of a Higher Power

[Melissa426]

I

Saved from what?

I wasn't going to get into this debate, but since you asked...!

To be saved is to be rescued from danger or evil, which are the consequences of sin. God can take away the results of sin and restore his creation to a peaceful and righteous relationship with him. When we sin, however, we separate yourself from a relationship with God.
Christians believe that the only way to be saved, to have that relationship restored, is thru a relationship with Jesus that is real and personal, because Jesus bore our punishment for our sin when he died on the cross.

That is simplistic. I am not a biblical scholar. I can not convince Heretic or anyone else on this board about the reality of God and his son Jesus Christ.
I can only bear witness to what this relationship, this belief, has done for me in my life.

Please don't ask me to get into a theological debate. I can tell you right now, I am not enough of a scholar to do it.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[michaeledward]

To be saved is to be rescued from danger or evil, which are the consequences of sin. God can take away the results of sin and restore his creation to a peaceful and righteous relationship with him.
Peace,
Melissa

Melissa, if I fall out of a kayak in a raging river, my personal floatation device can 'save' me; rescue me from danger.

But what is evil? According to our President, evil is a noun. Evil can be hunted down and killed.

What is sin?

Can you explain "sin" without the construct of God? Sin must exist, for God to exist, so that God can save me from sin. The argument you are making requires a prerequisite belief; God exists.

Now, I don't want anyone who believes to stop their beliefs. Just want to point out the difficulty in the argument.

Mike

 

[parmandjack]

They call it faith. I will not ask you to abandon your faith. Don't ask me to abandon my ability to reason.

Mike

So... and this will be my only response to this inane thread... in one persons response to my ability to disagree with heretic888 I am told not to, how was it put? "to attack someones intelligence", or something similar...

...and then what do I see contained in the very next post? You stating that everyone who has faith cannot reason?

That seems like quite a generalization hmmm?

So basically anyone of Faith who disagrees with your belief is dumb and unable to reason out facts to a logical conclusion, because the logical conclusion to them differs from that logical conclusion which you resolve the facts to???

That is quite an intolerant belief system you have there???

Luckily though, european and western democracies were founded on the judeo/christian teachings given to us by the very God that you don't seem to feel exists or is necessary, and for whom you can thank for the latitute of rights that you have at your disposal to voice your dissent.

...and you wonder why we get tired of entering into these useless debate with people who are close-minded and not interested in facts... considering that we hear nothing but circular logic, reasoning and arguments from those of your religion...

Anyway... caio, there are people out there who are truly searching and willing to examine the facts, that need my time much more than this thread...

 

[RandomPhantom700]

And next to the definition of "hypocrite" in the dictionary, class, we find parmandjack(***)' photograph. Can anyone tell me why?

 

[Dronak]

I didn't read all the posts, but that's because the first post or two basically summed things up. [Oops, not the *first* two; it was the first two on page 4 where I looked first using the last post link from the forum's list of threads.] I'm a trained scientist and I believe that science can explain how things happen quite well. We've done lots of that. But people don't just want to know how, they want to know why and that kind of why generally isn't in the realm of science. For example, we've got theories about how the universe began, the Big Bang being the most prevalent and AFAIK still the best overall theory. But does it explain *why* that initial creation happened? No. That's why I think there has to be some higher power, some form of god, that's the why behind the how that science can figure out. It may not be a god in the traditional religious sense, but I do think there has to be something out there. As it looks like was noted, this does go beyond reason into faith and when you make that switch, concrete proof either way really doesn't exist (that's why it's called "faith"). My general opinion has always been that science and religion can coexist quite well if you use them each in the appropriate realms and don't try to use one to explain things in the other, out of its realm. And I've also heard what Mark Weiser said -- that if there were no god, humans would have need to create one. I've also heard it said that no one's an atheist on their death bed. *shrug* Obviously everyone will have their own opinion. Mine is basically that there has to be some higher power that's the why behind the how that science can explain.

 

[michaeledward]

So... and this will be my only response to this inane thread... in one persons response to my ability to disagree with heretic888 I am told not to, how was it put? "to attack someones intelligence", or something similar...

...and then what do I see contained in the very next post? You stating that everyone who has faith cannot reason?

That seems like quite a generalization hmmm?

So basically anyone of Faith who disagrees with your belief is dumb and unable to reason out facts to a logical conclusion, because the logical conclusion to them differs from that logical conclusion which you resolve the facts to???

That is quite an intolerant belief system you have there???

Luckily though, european and western democracies were founded on the judeo/christian teachings given to us by the very God that you don't seem to feel exists or is necessary, and for whom you can thank for the latitute of rights that you have at your disposal to voice your dissent.

...and you wonder why we get tired of entering into these useless debate with people who are close-minded and not interested in facts... considering that we hear nothing but circular logic, reasoning and arguments from those of your religion...

Anyway... caio, there are people out there who are truly searching and willing to examine the facts, that need my time much more than this thread...

If you re-examine my post, I think you will find that nowhere did I state that faith and reason are mutually exclusive, nor did I state that people of faith cannot reason.

Some of the smartest people I know are people of faith. I make no claim linking intelligence (or lack thereof) to faith.

Further ... my intolerance can be, obviously manifested in my statement

I will not ask you to abandon your faith.

And to think that the rights granted to me as a citizen of the United States only exist because the United States was founded on Judeo/Christian teachings is rather an odd statement; one of political nature, rather than faith, so I will let it pass for the moment. Except to remind you that the founders were wise enough to codify that 'Congress shall make no law' concerning the establishment of religion? Where is the Judeo Christian teachings in that First Amendment.

You state that I am close minded, but I am at a loss. I stated that I can offer no evidence that a Higher Power does not exist. I have asked that you present EVIDENCE, and you state that I can't see the facts. I am looking. I am waiting. For two millenia, smarter people than me have been trying to offer proof one way or the other concerning the existance of a Supreme Being.

So one last thing before you go ....

I am a born again Christian. I am "Saved". I have served in my Catholic Church. I have served in an Assemblies of God Church. I have served in a music ministry in my youth.

I have also examined my life, and the universe around me and decided that perhaps the reason for my existance is not GOD related; perhaps God Doesn't exist. In fact, it seems to my highly unlikely.

Of course, with folks like you, being the light of the world, is it any wonder.

Mike

 

[MisterMike]

When one person tells another to prove the object of their faith exists, I think they look pretty stupid, as does this thread.

 

[michaeledward]

and I will also state emphatically that you are correct in that all other religions are on the wrong paths to salvation... only through a relationship with Jesus Christ will a person be saved.

As stupid as this thread my look, MisterMike, it was not I that stated 'emphatically' that my way is the only way. Of course, making such statements takes all the 'discussion' out of the discussion, doesn't it?

Suddenly, it becomes an "I'm right, You're wrong" discussion (or is it lecture).

 

[MisterMike]

If a religious doctrine says that chocolate cookies are the only thing you can eat on Fridays and that all other cookies are inherently evil, why can't you let those followers just have their freedom of religion?

Of course we need discussion, but after the point where it was stated religions are based on faith and not proof I think you all could have let it die.

 

[michaeledward]

Of course we need discussion, but after the point where it was stated religions are based on faith and not proof I think you all could have let it die.

I was trying to do just that, and then was accused of saying those with Faith do not have the ability to reason.

You stating that everyone who has faith cannot reason?

Isn't there a rule somewhere in the religion about bearing false witness against thy neighbor?

 

[MisterMike]

I was trying to do just that, and then was accused of saying those with Faith do not have the ability to reason.


Isn't there a rule somewhere in the religion about bearing false witness against thy neighbor?

Well, it was kinda posed as a question, but I'm not gettin into that one. I wasn't directing anything directly at you, even though my post followed yours. I just hate to see these threads get ugly as they usually do.

Also, I'll be the first to say it's one thing to discuss the elements of religion and another to force it's doctrine on another person. Just as I'm equally appolled at those who say your religion is not true.

 

[parmandjack]

Ok, as you request I'll give you this one last point before I go my friend...

...Everything else you have written I am ignoring, as you are simply picking and chosing words out of context to try to argue... it would be a waste of my time ..

However this last statment you made disturbs me, and it is only due to my concern for you that I am returning to respond, despite my previous statement of departure...

So one last thing before you go ....

I am a born again Christian. I am "Saved". I have served in my Catholic Church. I have served in an Assemblies of God Church. I have served in a music ministry in my youth.

Mike

...in this thread, You have been arguing against the existance of God, especially the God of the Bible... belief in the bible and the statements of Jesus Christ being the ONLY way, and the inerrancy of the Bible and literal translation of the Bible as Gods Word... and then out of the blue make such a stunning contradictory statement above in an attempt to strengthen your position...

However, and please pay close attention those of you out there truly wondering what a "real" Christian is...

...you are most definitely NOT a Born Again Christian my friend... read the bible for yourself to see what Jesus teaches about this, not your own version (and by bible I mean one such as the New King James, not the Holy See's version or the Catholic Catechism)...

2 things...

...first of all my friend, this statement you made displays your complete lack of knowledge and total ignorance of biblical Christianity (read your bible to find out more)... so how can you debate it?

The Catholic church is an Apostate church that does not adhere to the teachings of the bible, and in fact adds to and detracts from the teachings of God... something which God strictly warns us not to do (read your bible to find out more...ie: Revelations)...

If you truly knew the bible...you would know that you are not saved by your works... so if you are assuming your salvation by what you have done, or your "works"... (ie: catholic church attendance, choir etc..) then you are not saved as you declared above...

...second point my friend... I reiterate that you are MOST DEFINITELY NOT SAVED... and I say this not from my own personal opinion.. but from the authority of the bible itself...

You state that you are "saved"... and then continue to describe your disbelief in the very God whom you believe has "saved" you... (HUH???!?!?!?!?!)

If you were truly saved, you would be filled with the Holy Ghost, and believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour... you Would KNOW that Salvation is ONLY through Jesus Christ, and KNOW that God DOES exist, and that your existance is based solely on Him...

How can you therefore attempt to argue me or anyone else on this point, when you dont have the first clue as to what the bible teaches?

Quoting scripture verses out of context, or partial clips of my statements out of context in a post, does not support your case against Christianity, when you so obviously have no idea what it teaches!!!

You have truly astounded me my friend, and I THANK you for your last post to me, as you have only served to completely reinforce the very reasons I stated previously, as to why we get tired of having these assinine debates with people who come completely unprepared with concrete facts outside their own opinions, based on nothing more than their own flawed humanistic theories of modern morality??? (as did the person who for calls me an *** and hypocrite for stating my beliefs, when I have said nothing in this thread that contradicts my faith thereby making me a hypocrit)... so Not only did you and you "***" calling associate do this in front of all to see, but you both highlighted again why bible believing Christians do tire of the endless mind-numbing barrage of unsubstantiated and rehashed arguments used and ranted against Jesus and the Bible, and those of us who believe in Him and the inerrancy of the Bible.

3 years ago I was an atheist... no.. I was a "devout" atheist (dare I use that word in that context???)... I was oblivious to the Truth just as you and a number of others on this thread are.... I've used and heard all the same old tired arguments you have in your pocket and believe ridicule, undermine, or weaken our faith and arguments in sort of said faith....

But now I am SAVED... by the Grace of God the Father, and through Faith in my Lord and King, Jesus Christ...now I know the Truth... and can still love you and "***" man, despite our differences and "***" mans juvenile comments.

I thank you again my friend, as I walk away shaking my head and smiling at your lastest supporting arguments...

BUT...

My heart is truly heavy and saddened by your loss, and I truly hope you can find the God that wants to save you... truly Mike...

Jesus loves you my friend, as do all of us, and I hope we meet in Heaven one day...

Your friend...

parmandjack...

 

[Scout_379]

And it is people like you who are truly ignorant, of yourself, and of others.

One of the things I have against the the Christian/Catholic/whatever viewpoint is that the teachings are all based on stories out of a book, and old and many times revised book too! Truth cannot be found in text, there is no single, proper way to attain peace and happiness, or be saved. I asked the original question because I wanted to know what else, other than biblical stories, makes a person believe in such a concept as god. I did not start this thread to begin what has become a pissing match over the proper way...proper way to what exactly? It does not matter.

parmandjack,

you're a smart guy it seems, but you really need a few lessons in diplomacy. You really come off as an ***hole forcing his beliefs on others, rather than listening to other people and reasoning out why you yourself believe in god!. I frequently wanted to just say in big letters: STFU already!! your posts are not helpful, and are bringing hostility and anger rather than reason. I am glad that you are going, really, but I know that you will come right on back to see the reponses to your last post, just as you did before. I will be gone for a week, and your coming response will not be heard by me, Praise the...wait!

It is your behavior that I find appalling in most religions. The feeling that yours is the only way, that yours is the only god, only you will be thus saved by the lord! The thing is...you cannot prove the existence of a god, nobody can yet, and there has been NO PROOF, other than text in a book that has been rightfully questioned on several occasions. dinosaurs for an easy example.

I feel that any religion promoting an open mind, and a loving and caring nature, is good for people. But these qualities do not have to be learned in churches. I know very.. uhh....sinful church-goers and many very happy and loving atheists.

one last thing, and totally unrelated...is a lifetime of sin worth an eternity of hell? I can't beleive it!

I asked why do you beleive, not why others should beleive.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Now that I have your attention...

I have noticed through a couple of threads that we have some very well informed an intellectual religious persons using this site. Being in my teens, and raised in a religion free environment, I have become curious about my own spirituality.

And so I ask: If you beleive in a God, or like being, why? And what proof have you seen or learned of its/His existence? What makes you beleive?

Scout this is an interesting thread and I am wondering have you gained anything by it?

The question you ask - what makes us believe? I like this question because it addresses our own personal beliefs and in that there are no rights or wrongs. It is what I choose to believe and is not better or more important or more right than what anyone else chooses for themselves. I believe that when our bodies die, we, our souls if you will, live on. Here is what I take as my proof of the existence of something greater than our living biological selves. Here are three things that have happened during my life.

When my brother-in-law was 30 years old he died in his sleep of a massive heart attack. He had a degenerative disease that went undetected and his death was a total shock to everyone who loved him. The night he died at about 2 am a lot of our family rushed to my sister's home to be by her side. He died quickly and the paramedics took him to the hospital to spare my sister of a long wait with the body in her home. We all wanted to be with her at the hospital so a kind policeman agreed to stay in the house because their not quite three year old daughter lay asleep in her crib. It was a long night and we all congregated back at my sister's home and were very sorrowful. The policeman said that my niece had not awakened all night. In the morning she came down and we were all still crying and she walked over to her mother and said "Mommy why are you crying? Don't cry Mommy...last night an angel came down and touched me on the forehead and told me everything would be ok." She didn't know her father had died...she had been asleep the whole time. We all just were amazed by her words and took great comfort in them.

My husband and I purchased our home a year before we planned our wedding and gutted it and completely remodeled it on nights and weekends. Anyway we worked really hard on the renovations and put all of our money into the house and our wedding and had nothing left for a honeymoon, so we spent our first night together in our newly remodeled home. Just before we were about to go to sleep there was a very strange and loud zapping sound from the living room and it was accompanied by a blinding bright green light that filled the house and streamed into our room for at least a few seconds and then suddenly everything went black again with a loud zap. It was the freakiest thing I've ever seen, and we both were like "Did that just happen?" The home we live in is an older home and I later found out that the previous owner had died in the house. I like to believe that that was her way of giving us her blessing to live in her home. It's like she was satisfied that we were finally living there so her energy passed onto the next realm. We've lived here for 14 years and have never seen anything like it again.

My mother died of complications of Diabetes. She was a person who lived life to the fullest and abhorred the restrictions that being a diabetic placed on her. A few months after she passed my sisters and brother went to clean out her clothes and I put on one of her sweaters while I was cleaning. I felt something in one of the pockets of the sweater and it turned out to be candy - something a diabetic is not allowed to have. So I said out loud as a joke for my siblings to hear, "Oh Mommy you bad girl what where you doing with candy in your pocket?" About two months later my sisters and I went to see a psychic named John Edwards. He told us many amazing things about her and about ourselves that he would have had no way of possibly knowing. Things that were personal. There was one thing in particular that really made me believe that my mother was still with us. He said, "Your mother wants you to know that she was very embarrassed that you found candy in her pocket!" It blew me away!

As a result of these experiences, I've made a choice to believe in the existence of something greater. I have come to believe that the signs are always there...I need only pay attention.

MJ :asian:

 

[Melissa426]

3 years ago I was an atheist... no.. I was a "devout" atheist (dare I use that word in that context???)... I was oblivious to the Truth just as you and a number of others on this thread are.... I've used and heard all the same old tired arguments you have in your pocket and believe ridicule, undermine, or weaken our faith and arguments in sort of said faith....

So, those of you who read Parmanjack's posts and they leave a sour taste inside you about Christianity, realize that he really is a baby, a very new Christian who has much to learn about his walk with Christ.

The apostle Paul talks a great deal about new Christians and sometimes they just "are not ready for solid food, they must be fed milk." Parmandjack is apparently still being "nursed." So consider that when you read his posts.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[michaeledward]

Ok, as you request I'll give you this one last point before I go my friend...

...Everything else you have written I am ignoring, as you are simply picking and chosing words out of context to try to argue... it would be a waste of my time ..

However this last statment you made disturbs me, and it is only due to my concern for you that I am returning to respond, despite my previous statement of departure...


...in this thread, You have been arguing against the existance of God, especially the God of the Bible... belief in the bible and the statements of Jesus Christ being the ONLY way, and the inerrancy of the Bible and literal translation of the Bible as Gods Word... and then out of the blue make such a stunning contradictory statement above in an attempt to strengthen your position...

However, and please pay close attention those of you out there truly wondering what a "real" Christian is...

...you are most definitely NOT a Born Again Christian my friend... read the bible for yourself to see what Jesus teaches about this, not your own version (and by bible I mean one such as the New King James, not the Holy See's version or the Catholic Catechism)...

2 things...

...first of all my friend, this statement you made displays your complete lack of knowledge and total ignorance of biblical Christianity (read your bible to find out more)... so how can you debate it?

The Catholic church is an Apostate church that does not adhere to the teachings of the bible, and in fact adds to and detracts from the teachings of God... something which God strictly warns us not to do (read your bible to find out more...ie: Revelations)...

If you truly knew the bible...you would know that you are not saved by your works... so if you are assuming your salvation by what you have done, or your "works"... (ie: catholic church attendance, choir etc..) then you are not saved as you declared above...

...second point my friend... I reiterate that you are MOST DEFINITELY NOT SAVED... and I say this not from my own personal opinion.. but from the authority of the bible itself...

You state that you are "saved"... and then continue to describe your disbelief in the very God whom you believe has "saved" you... (HUH???!?!?!?!?!)

If you were truly saved, you would be filled with the Holy Ghost, and believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour... you Would KNOW that Salvation is ONLY through Jesus Christ, and KNOW that God DOES exist, and that your existance is based solely on Him...

How can you therefore attempt to argue me or anyone else on this point, when you dont have the first clue as to what the bible teaches?

Quoting scripture verses out of context, or partial clips of my statements out of context in a post, does not support your case against Christianity, when you so obviously have no idea what it teaches!!!

You have truly astounded me my friend, and I THANK you for your last post to me, as you have only served to completely reinforce the very reasons I stated previously, as to why we get tired of having these assinine debates with people who come completely unprepared with concrete facts outside their own opinions, based on nothing more than their own flawed humanistic theories of modern morality??? (as did the person who for calls me an *** and hypocrite for stating my beliefs, when I have said nothing in this thread that contradicts my faith thereby making me a hypocrit)... so Not only did you and you "***" calling associate do this in front of all to see, but you both highlighted again why bible believing Christians do tire of the endless mind-numbing barrage of unsubstantiated and rehashed arguments used and ranted against Jesus and the Bible, and those of us who believe in Him and the inerrancy of the Bible.

3 years ago I was an atheist... no.. I was a "devout" atheist (dare I use that word in that context???)... I was oblivious to the Truth just as you and a number of others on this thread are.... I've used and heard all the same old tired arguments you have in your pocket and believe ridicule, undermine, or weaken our faith and arguments in sort of said faith....

But now I am SAVED... by the Grace of God the Father, and through Faith in my Lord and King, Jesus Christ...now I know the Truth... and can still love you and "***" man, despite our differences and "***" mans juvenile comments.

I thank you again my friend, as I walk away shaking my head and smiling at your lastest supporting arguments...

BUT...

My heart is truly heavy and saddened by your loss, and I truly hope you can find the God that wants to save you... truly Mike...

Jesus loves you my friend, as do all of us, and I hope we meet in Heaven one day...

Your friend...

parmandjack...

How incredibly arrogant of you!

Were you in the room when I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior?
Were you in any of the rooms in which I testified before the youth groups around New Englad with our Evangelical Music Ministry?
Did you attend any of the 'Youth' Masses held in the 'Rec Center' of our Catholic Church, which drew evangelicals from around the area, and due to the Holy Spirit (some say) was one of the most popular worship services in the area?

And yet you can state with certainty that I am this, or I am not that.

Some read the teachings of Jesus Christ to say that you must be 'Born Again' to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, one birth of the body, and one birth of the Holy Spirit. The teachings also tell us that once you are born again, there is nothing that can be done to undue that.

So, if I was 'Born Again' at 15 years old ... how is it that now I am not Born Again now? How did I become 'un-Born Again'?

Don't you remember the part about 'Free Will'? I grew up and continued to question things. And more and more those questions left me with uncertainty. And as I looked at those uncertainties, it seemed to me far more likely that God was a human construct, rather than humans being a construct of God.

I was there ... I got the T-Shirt ... It's folded in the bottom drawer of my dresser, and I would really rather not have anyone see me in it, or know I ever wore it.

Good Grief - Mike

P.S. why don't you print out both sides of our little conversation, 'my friend', and bring it to your religious teacher, and see what he has to say?

 

[michaeledward]

So, those of you who read Parmanjack's posts and they leave a sour taste inside you about Christianity, realize that he really is a baby, a very new Christian who has much to learn about his walk with Christ.

The apostle Paul talks a great deal about new Christians and sometimes they just "are not ready for solid food, they must be fed milk." Parmandjack is apparently still being "nursed." So consider that when you read his posts.

Peace,
Melissa

Melissa,

parmandjack states earlier in this thread that something to the effect that he is an 'expert' in the Bible. His statements seem to indicate something very different from being 'a very new Christian'.

Thought you might want to know.

Mike

I am a biblical scholar and a student of eschatology...and YES... I CAN provide you with factual evidences supporting the historical, scientific and supernatural claims of the Bible, both Old AND New Testaments...

... but then again, maybe I am ....

as you are simply picking and chosing words out of context to try to argue.

 

[Melissa426]

Melissa,

parmandjack states earlier in this thread that something to the effect that he is an 'expert' in the Bible. His statements seem to indicate something very different from being 'a very new Christian'.

Thought you might want to know.

Mike

He can say what he wants to say. But you don't go from an "devout" atheist to being a Bible expert in 3 years. It's like me going from white belt to Grand Master in three years. Not going to happen!

And for the sake of argument, even if he is a Bible expert, does that make him a good Christian? Absolutely not! It takes more than knowing the word, you have to live it.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Colossians+3%3A+12-14&version=NIV

Peace,
Melissa

 

[Flatlander]

Hmmmm. I thought my last post here was pretty good, but I didn't get any response. Peculiar.

michaeledward - good points.

MJ - awesome post. Thank you for trying to keep the thread on topic.

RandomPhantom700 - come on man, that was a little harsh.

parmandjack - why not continue the debate? That is what the Study is for. Just try to keep your emotions out of it. The point is to provide evidence of a higher power. It doesn't *necessarily* need to be tangible, and MJ-hi-yah's post was a good example of this.

I for one have nothing noteworthy to offer in that respect. But you claim to have something, so its better to share than be a troll....

 

[Lisa]

As a result of these experiences, I've made a choice to believe in the existence of something greater. I have come to believe that the signs are always there...I need only pay attention.

MJ :asian:

MJ, Awesome post and I agree with you completely. I was present when both of my grand parents passed away. The first, my grandmother was when I was in my early 20's. I had said my goodbyes and had no intention of coming back but something drew me there. I sat in her room with my mom talking quietly. My mom asked me to go and get her a cup of hot chocolate, I knew the vending machine was on a different floor and I also knew that it would not be a good time for me to leave. I made an excuse not to leave, a few minutes later I saw my grandmother take her last breaths.

The same thing basically happened 15 years later when my grandfather fell ill. I, again, was there when he took his last breaths. I was at work when I recieved a call from my family and had an uncontrollable urge to get to the hospital as soon as possible even though my family said he was doing okay and comfortable. No one expected him to die that day.

On both occassions something or perhaps someone drew me to the aid of my family. I can't explain it better then that.

Does this prove that there is a higher power? To most, probably not, but it makes me believe that there are things out there that I fail to yet understand. Forces that have yet to be discovered. If, once I die, those things finally are explained to me, then great; if they are not, then what harm has it done me to find strength in something that makes me feel secure. No, I guess some would not call me a good christian, I don't go to church every Sunday. I don't believe I need to prove my faith or beliefs to anyone. You have yours and I have mine. I can respect your opinion, my only request is that you respect mine.