Posture & Power

[Wing Chun Auckland]

The "not locking the hips" idea mentioned in the earlier part of the video is a very good point. This part alone made a very tangible improvement to my wing chun once I discovered it for myself. I was able to do all the downward movements of SNT against muscular resistance and chi sao I was able to absorb pressure way better.

The leaning back stance is something that is quite common here in Auckland with the major schools teaching this way. I have a student who comes from one of these schools and I can literally just push his chest lightly with my finger and he will have to step back.

There is an excellent interview with Robert Chu on wingchungeeks that talks about this. If you haven't heard or read it, it's well worth the read.Proper Wing Chun Structure with Sifu Robert Chu Obsessed With Wing Chun Kung Fu

 

[kung fu fighter]

As I noted above, one of the primary differences between these two methods is that one is “up close” and short range with short power compared to the other which is further out with more extended punches and "long arm" power. Hendrik states this explicitly in the first clip.
So again, I invite anyone to please go back to my video in the OP at the 12:30 mark and tell me if I am not showing the “up close” and short range version of these two models? Am I not showing the EXACT same thing that Hendrik is showing in the videos above?

Keith, I know the difference between using the Kua to generate power up through the spine and out through an elbow structure coupled to the hip while being connected to the ground and force flow power generation. They are completely two different things! One can certainly use "long fist" power generation using the hip/kua at short range such as in jook Lum SPM, PSWCK, YKSWCK, Yip Man WCK or other hakka arts, but to get maximum power and efficiency as well as freedom of movement at short range one needs force flow power generation. There is no way around it, Force flow is a completely different technology!

Is it possible to meet you or sergio or robert ...and touch hands ?

Zuti, if you are ever in the Toronto area, feel free to contact me, I would be happy to touch hands

 

[Hendrik]

Zuti,

Navin, Robert, or Sergio all have developed the force flow with me. Navin can represent me on this subject


Keith,

I am not trying to put anyone down. It is a different technology,
Navin has gone through the training and develpment thus he is speaking with his experience.
Basically, if the body does not develop into the "snake engine " ordinary body can't do it and the mind doesn't know what it is. And it is very simple for those who has develop the engine to scan the others to see if they have the same elements. All of these are real and not woo woo.

Robert and me keep discussing how to present it so that others can understood. Up to now, no one in this forum comprehend what I am presenting yet. So I keep try...

Recently, Robert and me just meet on Friday night to discuss these things.... ...

It is all about education


Perhaps someways you will develop with this technology , that way you can present to the community with your expertise training in your field. To see develop it first hand

 

[Hendrik]

The contrast on loading system and force flow system,


Loading means hold, that is the seed of the system. Holding and upholding. Meaning one needs to tense up and Un tense.

Force flow system deal with force flow path, it is managing the flow.


So the above two systems are different .

The body development are different. What happen is when one use to a holding and upholding system, one will not aware of the existence of the managing the flow system. Because one think in order to handling something it needs to hold .

Like holding a hammer to hit something....etc

Or a spring to store the pressure....etc. as in spring, it is physics that small spring can store only smaller energy compare with big spring. So if smaller spring is push to the point of exceed its limit it will break.

As for flow, it is similar to a high way, things can get congested but it is not the type of breakdown of a spring.

So timing of managing force flow and timing to load and unload are different. Load and unload use more local tension while force flow don't tense that much because it doesn't hold thus it feel light weight

 

[Kwan Sau]

I am not trying to put anyone down.

Well then, go back and read your posts and reflect... because that's exactly how you come across. I'm not sure if you're dealing with a language barrier or a cultural barrier but you are smug and your posts stink of elitism.

Up to now, no one in this forum comprehend what I am presenting yet.

See what I mean.

 

[Vajramusti]

The body development are different. What happen is when one use to a holding and upholding system, one will not aware of the existence of the managing the flow system. Because one think in order to handling something it needs to hold .

Like holding a hammer to hit something....etc

Or a spring to store the pressure....etc. as in spring, it is physics that small spring can store only smaller energy compare with big spring. So if smaller spring is push to the point of exceed its limit it will break.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense .Straw man arguments. I don't tense up neither do my brothers.

As for flow, it is similar to a high way, things can get congested but it is not the type of breakdown of a spring.

So timing of managing force flow and timing to load and unload are different. Load and unload use more local tension while force flow don't tense that much because it doesn't hold thus it feel light weight[/QUOTE]

 

[Vajramusti]

Nonsense- straw man arguments. I don't tense up and neither do my kung fu brothers.

 

[mograph]

Up to now, no one in this forum comprehend what I am presenting yet.

I don't see this as offensive, but I might phrase it as "Up to now, no one in this forum has indicated that they comprehend what I am presenting yet."

... which is true, isn't it? Nobody has said, "I get it. It's like this ..."

Now, the problem could lie in the transmitter, the message, and/or the receiver. Or, most likely, the medium.

 

[Vajramusti]

The body development are different. What happen is when one use to a holding and upholding system, one will not aware of the existence of the managing the flow system. Because one think in order to handling something it needs to hold .

Like holding a hammer to hit something....etc

Or a spring to store the pressure....etc. as in spring, it is physics that small spring can store only smaller energy compare with big spring. So if smaller spring is push to the point of exceed its limit it will break.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense .Straw man arguments. I don't tense up neither do my brothers.

The body development are different. What happen is when one use to a holding and upholding system, one will not aware of the existence of the managing the flow system. Because one think in order to handling something it needs to hold .

Like holding a hammer to hit something....etc

Or a spring to store the pressure....etc. as in spring, it is physics that small spring can store only smaller energy compare with big spring. So if smaller spring is push to the point of exceed its limit it will break.



------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense .Straw man arguments. I don't tense up neither do my brothers.

As for flow, it is similar to a high way, things can get congested but it is not the type of breakdown of a spring.

So timing of managing force flow and timing to load and unload are different. Load and unload use more local tension while force flow don't tense that much because it doesn't hold thus it feel light weight

----------------------------------------------------
The last two sentences are not mine.

 

[Kwan Sau]

Nonsense- straw man arguments.

I agree!


Hendrik thinks he knows something special. That's awesome. I'm happy for him. But I know stuff about WC that I KNOW FOR SURE Hendrik does NOT know.

 

[KPM]

Keith,

I am not trying to put anyone down. It is a different technology,
Navin has gone through the training and develpment thus he is speaking with his experience.
Basically, if the body does not develop into the "snake engine " ordinary body can't do it and the mind doesn't know what it is. And it is very simple for those who has develop the engine to scan the others to see if they have the same elements. All of these are real and not woo woo.

----Hendrik, the bottom line here is that no one here but you (and maybe Navin?) has the ability to "scan the others to see if they have the same elements." So my assertion that I am SHOWING in my video the EXACT same thing you are showing in yours is true, because to anyone else watching them there isn't much difference. You equated the "hydraulic model" to short power in close and the "mechanical model" to long power further out. You didn't elaborate any more than that and even said there was nothing "mysterious" or "woo woo" about it. I show short power in close and you say I don't "get it " and its completely different. This and the assertion that the "ordinary body can't do it" certainly sounds "mysterious" and "woo woo"!!! Your repeated efforts to deny any kind of biomechanical explanation certainly sounds "mysterious" and "woo woo"!!! You can't even give anyone a bit of credit or acknowledge that they have some elements of what you are talking about. That is a problem. Don't you see that? How can you help anyone comprehend what you are saying if you won't work with where they are at, or meet their view half-way?


Robert and me keep discussing how to present it so that others can understood. Up to now, no one in this forum comprehend what I am presenting yet. So I keep try...

---No one comprehends because you can't meet anyone half way to help them understand. Its all or nothing for you. No matter what I say, you will deny it. I have been learning something about force flow. I mentioned some of it in my post. But you won't even acknowledge that part of it. You used to talk all the time about the "7 bows" and their "spring-like" qualities, now you don't even acknowledge when someone is using that view of things. So I do hope that Robert can give you some good advice, because what Alan is teaching in his on-line mentorship program doesn't contradict anything I've written.

 

[KPM]

Keith, I know the difference between using the Kua to generate power up through the spine and out through an elbow structure coupled to the hip while being connected to the ground and force flow power generation. They are completely two different things!

Navin, can you honestly say that there is a difference between what Hendrik and I are showing in our videos that someone other than a "Force Flow" expert would see?

 

[Kwan Sau]

Navin, can you honestly say that there is a difference between what Hendrik and I are showing in our videos that someone other than a "Force Flow" expert would see?

Ooh....can't wait to read this response!

 

[KPM]

The contrast on loading system and force flow system,
Loading means hold, that is the seed of the system. Holding and upholding. Meaning one needs to tense up and Un tense.
Force flow system deal with force flow path, it is managing the flow.

---To me, I don't see loading as meaning to hold or to tense up. That would be "bracing." You can load into your structure without bracing. Where does the flow of the force go when you receive pressure from someone? Does it not go through your body and into the ground? Will there not be some element of compression of the skeleton and soft tissues as it goes through your structure? Then when you "refect" or "bounce" that force back into them, will there not be some element of your structure expanding? I don't think they are that different. It seems more like a matter of degrees of the "spring" effect. One may be more subtle and refined than the other.


Or a spring to store the pressure....etc. as in spring, it is physics that small spring can store only smaller energy compare with big spring. So if smaller spring is push to the point of exceed its limit it will break.

----You used to write all the time about the "7 bows" and how they acted as springs in the body. What happened to that?

 

[kung fu fighter]

----Hendrik, the bottom line here is that no one here but you (and maybe Navin?) has the ability to "scan the others to see if they have the same elements." So my assertion that I am SHOWING in my video the EXACT same thing you are showing in yours is true, because to anyone else watching them there isn't much difference.

Keith, It's about what's going on internally, not about what the body looks like on the outside. There is a subtle difference to what Hendrik is doing that's missing in what you are doing, you know the old saying "off by an inch, miss by a mile" Hendrik is not hiding anything, it's right there in front of your eyes if you know what to look for.

 

[KPM]

Keith, It's about what's going on internally, not about what the body looks like on the outside. There is a subtle difference to what Hendrik is doing that's missing in what you are doing, you know the old saying "off by an inch, miss by a mile" Hendrik is not hiding anything, it's right there in front of your eyes if you know what to look for.

Which proves my point about how anyone other than a "force flow" expert watching those videos is going to see them as pretty much the same thing. The fact that Hendrik cannot acknowledge that and then use it to try to explain what is missing and "fill in the gaps" is one of the main reasons he has such a hard time getting people to understand what he is trying to explain.

He could have said...."look at what Keith is doing here. This is very good basic short power and is the beginning of the hydraulic model. But now he needs to do........" But he can't meet anyone half way. Its all or nothing. So he wonders why no one gets what he is saying when he posts in the forums!

 

[Kwan Sau]

It is all about education

Indeed. So, Maestro Santo, is this why you denigrate and belittle the masses and withhold your sermons...because "it is all about education"???

 

[kung fu fighter]

The fact that Hendrik cannot acknowledge that and then use it to try to explain what is missing and "fill in the gaps" is one of the main reasons he has such a hard time getting people to understand what he is trying to explain.He could have said...."look at what Keith is doing here. This is very good basic short power and is the beginning of the hydraulic model. But now he needs to do........" But he can't meet anyone half way. Its all or nothing. So he wonders why no one gets what he is saying when he posts in the forums!

What you are doing is not the beginning of the hydraulic mode, why should he mislead you or others in order to apease you. You think he can just "filling in the gaps" of what took him over 40 years of daily training to get to, it's not that simple, one have to go through his 6 core elements training process in order to fully grasp and understand it.


Hendrik is the Grandmaster/gatekeeper of Cho Hung Choi's Yik Kam wing chun Branch, which is the oldest surviving linage of wing chun. you guys have no idea of the vast wealth of knowledge that he has, He should be respected and appreciated for what he shares on here instead of you bickering with him all the time.

 

[Vajramusti]

Keith,

I am not trying to put anyone down. It is a different technology,
Navin has gone through the training and develpment thus he is speaking with his experience.
Basically, if the body does not develop into the "snake engine " ordinary body can't do it and the mind doesn't know what it is. And it is very simple for those who has develop the engine to scan the others to see if they have the same elements. All of these are real and not woo woo.

----Hendrik, the bottom line here is that no one here but you (and maybe Navin?) has the ability to "scan the others to see if they have the same elements." So my assertion that I am SHOWING in my video the EXACT same thing you are showing in yours is true, because to anyone else watching them there isn't much difference. You equated the "hydraulic model" to short power in close and the "mechanical model" to long power further out. You didn't elaborate any more than that and even said there was nothing "mysterious" or "woo woo" about it. I show short power in close and you say I don't "get it " and its completely different. This and the assertion that the "ordinary body can't do it" certainly sounds "mysterious" and "woo woo"!!! Your repeated efforts to deny any kind of biomechanical explanation certainly sounds "mysterious" and "woo woo"!!! You can't even give anyone a bit of credit or acknowledge that they have some elements of what you are talking about. That is a problem. Don't you see that? How can you help anyone comprehend what you are saying if you won't work with where they are at, or meet their view half-way?


Robert and me keep discussing how to present it so that others can understood. Up to now, no one in this forum comprehend what I am presenting yet. So I keep try...

---No one comprehends because you can't meet anyone half way to help them understand. Its all or nothing for you. No matter what I say, you will deny it. I have been learning something about force flow. I mentioned some of it in my post. But you won't even acknowledge that part of it. You used to talk all the time about the "7 bows" and their "spring-like" qualities, now you don't even acknowledge when someone is using that view of things. So I do hope that Robert can give you some good advice, because what Alan is teaching in his on-line mentorship program doesn't contradict anything I've written.

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Again- 1. I have chi saoed with Hendrik in his home. Was not impressed

2. I have seen Navin's video of his snake body. Was not impressed.

3.Have seen many of Sergio's videos- lots of marketing there

4. Met Phil briefly in early May- good guy; he went with a kung fu brother of mine to
Germany for a seminar. He has met hendrik but I see no new parting of the waves in what he does.

5. Hendrik's posts are a creeping sludge on discussions.

 

[Vajramusti]

What you are doing is not the beginning of the hydraulic mode, why should he mislead you or others in order to apease you. You think he can just "filling in the gaps" of what took him over 40 years of daily training to get to, it's not that simple, one have to go through the training process in order to fully understand it.


Hendrik is the Grandmaster/gatekeeper of Cho Hung Choi's Yik Kam wing chun Branch, which is the oldest surviving linage of wing chun. you guys have no idea of the vast wealth of knowledge that he has, He should be respected and appreciated for what he shares on here instead of you bickering with him all the time.

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Bickering with him is not my intention anyway. But commenting when he makes straw men of other wing chun- tiresome-
but warranted.