Points to ponder

[James Kovacich]

No matter how anybody sees anything that we do, it does not matter. All that matters is where we go with our arts and what we do with them.

Neither I nor anybody I associate with sells certificates. Thats all that matters. You can go to some sites an order a certificate, that exists. But I am positive that if anybody tried doing that with anybody that I have associated myself with you will not receive a certificate of anykind except a general certificate that accepts you as a new member. Thats it. You may lose your money for trying to buy rank, but you won't get certified without evaluation.

The real question is: Who is qualified to evaluate and by what standards?

None of us here are qualified to tell some one they are evaluating wrong unless we have some kind of connection with them. If we don't, then we just don't know what they know, so its impossible to know they are wrong in how they evaluate! Everybodies standards are going to be differant and everybody is going to say their way is correct!

BUT I THANK YOU FOR BEING HONEST ABOUT YOURSELF!!!!
At least you and I have that much in common!

Nobody else seems to wants to follow suit. If they don't, then for all I know I'm getting critisized by some pimply faced nerd white belt sitting at home behind his computer trying to be something that he isn't.

I've been totally honest all along. Maybe I don't express myself in a fashion that everybody will understand, but very few people in my eyes came at me right.

The only reason I even bother to explain anything to anybody I don't know personally is I'm in here offering my input so I should explain.

The same goes for everybody else who entered our conversations. Its time to fess up. Many people here attacked 1 individual in particular besides me about their rank. But none of these accusers have come forth and offered any detailed history of themselves. Forget the website links.

"We" want to here it from your mouths with a timeline if don't mind!

Yiliquan1, thanx again for setting the stage!!

 

[chufeng]

Prior to Yili, I studied both Judo and TaeKwonDo...I had five years of Judo and had attained the rank of Sankyu...Prior to these arts I wrestled and boxed (both of my brothers were Golden Gloves champions for ten years in a seven state region...John actually fought for the US team overseas...I regularly kicked his butt, but was not interested in competing)...none of those arts had what I was looking for...

I studied YiLi with Sifu Starr from October, 1982 thru June, 1986.
Then I joined the Army (for a second time)...
I trained at the kwoon 4 to 6 days a week and attended every "weekend intensive seminar" that was offered (5 hours on Friday evening...0730 - 2300 on Saturday...and 0730 to 1730 on Sunday), they were offered about three times a year. When I trained at the kwoon, I sometimes would attend morning and evening classes and would train for three hours at home, as well.

I also attended a number of seminars in other systems...
Oyata Sensei x 2...Nishiyama Sensei x 1...Fusaro Sensei x 1...Smaby Sensei x 5...

It seems like a short time (4 years) but when you add up the hours...it was the equivalant of maybe 9 years at a regular dojo.

Once I left Iowa, I trained for 3 to 7 hours every day...1986 to 1991...(during this time I also trained in Aikido and FutGar Kung Fu...I found those same elements in our system...)

I taught YiLi to anyone interested...many people came (mostly black belts), few stuck around...training is hard...and when it comes to meeting the "standard" for our system, I am a butthead.

In 1991, I started my Master's program in anesthesia...I had to cut back on my training...but the time I put in up front paid off in spades...because, even though I'm a broken down fat fart now, I can still whoop Yiliquan1's butt

At any rate...the secret to skill in any art is simply HARD WORK...
I am as much a student now as I was when I walked through the
doors of Sifu Starr's school back in 1982...

There it is...pick away at it, as you see fit.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[A.R.K.]

There it is...pick away at it, as you see fit.

Why would anyone wish to pick apart something that is personal to you? Which has meaning to you? If you are satisfied with your training, and your student's are satisfied with you as an instructor...is that not what counts?

To me it sounds as though you have some practical experience to share.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Why would anyone wish to pick apart something that is personal to you?

To provide external, objective commentary about it.

If you are satisfied with your training, and your student's are satisfied with you as an instructor...is that not what counts?

Well, maybe some folks are content with being "satisfied with their instructor," but if they are new in martial arts and can't make heads nor tails of the training explanations their instructor provides, then how objective can they be in determining their instructor's worth? If the instructor knows more than the student, of course the student will be satisfied (more or less) with what they are being taught... But how can they separate the legitimate training under the watchful eye of a qualified instructor, personal training and practice, and imaginary qualifications that are nothing more than window dressing from each other without complete disclosure?

In the court of public opinion, though not so in a court of law, failing to testify fully on one's own behalf is considered to be indicative of some sort of guilt...

To me it sounds as though you have some practical experience to share.

He most certainly does! He is one of the most knowledgeable broken down old farts I know! (That'll probably get me smacked around extra this weekend... )

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

To provide external, objective commentary about it.

Well now thats the thing isn't it. But who's to say the commentary is objective? If he is satisfied then what matter is it if someone comes in with negative opinion. He has to look at himself in the mirror, no one else.

What is sound to someone is not to another. But it in no way invalidates the soundness just because another thinks so. It is all an opinion.

If I say to you that your instructor is great...does it make him great? If I have a derogatory opinion...does it make it true. It is all subjective. Lets say he is a good instructor and has sound technique, but he goofed up somewhere in his life. If I pull that out of the closet to parade around, does it invalidate what he knows and what he has taught you?

Well, maybe some folks are content with being "satisfied with their instructor," but if they are new in martial arts and can't make heads nor tails of the training explanations their instructor provides, then how objective can they be in determining their instructor's worth?

We have all been there in the beginning. We were all newbies. And there is a 'sucker born every minute'. But there are also resources available to check someone out. Asking to see the qualifications, certifications etc. Lets be quite honest, ANY of our certificates can be copied. It is the person not the paper that matters.

If you went to someone with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, but they could fight, train and teach and it appealed to you, would you go? Sure, most of us would. On the flip side, someone with credentials can be honest and forthright and also be excellent. Reputation carries alot.

The whole point is unless I personally know chufeng, and have firsthand knowledge about him good or bad...do I need to open my mouth against him? To me even second hand knowledge is iffy because you have to consider the integrity of the source of that information.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Well now thats the thing isn't it. But who's to say the commentary is objective? If he is satisfied then what matter is it if someone comes in with negative opinion. He has to look at himself in the mirror, no one else.

And that is a convenient argument for folks who refuse to acknowledge that regardless of individual expression, there still remain certain standards in every walk of life, every vocation, every avocation. Those standards are typically determined by a concensus of the group in question, and the concensus here seems to be that rank granted by organizations outside the one you belong to, or rank granted by teachers other than those from your own system, is questionable at very best.

So the argument above is very convenient to help the person with a potentially questionable background validate him/herself when looking in the mirror, faced with the judgement of the group.

What is sound to someone is not to another. But it in no way invalidates the soundness just because another thinks so. It is all an opinion.

Please refer to above comment regarding standards being set by a concensus of the group, not by individual tastes.

If I say to you that your instructor is great...does it make him great? If I have a derogatory opinion...does it make it true. It is all subjective.

Exactly. But you are only one person. If you have a concensus of a group deciding that something is the standard for evaluation of a particular thing (in this case martial arts credentials), then that group opinion, for good or ill, becomes the standard. It is then no longer subjective, but objective.

Lets say he is a good instructor and has sound technique, but he goofed up somewhere in his life. If I pull that out of the closet to parade around, does it invalidate what he knows and what he has taught you?

It doesn't invalidate his teaching, and only validates that he is human and fallible like the rest of us. A martial arts instructor, regardless of the divine rank he/she may have, is still human and flawed. Even if a person has deity-like rank, it is still entirely possible that their rank, their system, and all the pseudo-knowledge they have skillfully taught so hundreds of thousands of talented students is still just so much crap.

We have all been there in the beginning. We were all newbies. And there is a 'sucker born every minute'. But there are also resources available to check someone out. Asking to see the qualifications, certifications etc. Lets be quite honest, ANY of our certificates can be copied. It is the person not the paper that matters.

But when the individual in question claims certifications registered in places, and those places are investigated for authenticity and found lacking, then the paper begins to mean even more and the person is caught in a less than favorable light no matter how nice they may seem...

A quote from Tolkien seems fitting here - "I thought he would seem fairer and feel fouler." Just because someone appears, on the surface, to be kind, legitimately certified, honest and true, doesn't make it so.

If you went to someone with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, but they could fight, train and teach and it appealed to you, would you go? Sure, most of us would. On the flip side, someone with credentials can be honest and forthright and also be excellent. Reputation carries alot.

If I wanted to train with a boxer, I wouldn't expect to see a stack of rank certificates. But I could check out who he trained with, how many fights he had, how many he won. Those are his certificates. If I train with a martial artist, there better be paper. If the paper claims X through Y organization, I better be able to verify it. If I can't, or the trail runs cold, then I am going to have questions, and no matter the reputation I will certainly be wary.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
And that is a convenient argument for folks who refuse to acknowledge that regardless of individual expression, there still remain certain standards in every walk of life, every vocation, every avocation. Those standards are typically determined by a concensus of the group in question, and the concensus here seems to be that rank granted by organizations outside the one you belong to, or rank granted by teachers other than those from your own system, is questionable at very best.

Hence the function of the American Medical Association and American Bar Association I guess.

 

[Matt Stone]

Something like that...

The AMA says that acupuncture is nothing more than placebo or endorphins... So for better or worse, that's the concensus.

Whatever. Moot point for some folks, I guess. Folks are going to believe whatever they want to believe. If they think their particular martial art variant is 6,000 years old and directly descended from the Island of Mu, then that is exactly what they are going to believe, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[GaryM]

If I can argue a point very well you may want to have me speak for you or give you advice pertaining to winning an argument. If I try to convince you that I can argue well because some people who are lawyers say that I argue like a lawyer does not mean that you should think that I can teach you to be a lawyer. And It sure as hell doesn't mean that you would have me defend you in court or give you legal advice. Look I've heard your argument before on other threads. If I can do it and teach it then what does it matter it's all good. Once upon a time the founder of any martial art had no title so it only matters what you know. O.K so once upon a time some one who was a truely successful badass survived many fights and gained a reputation, then he taught others how to fight and they were recognised as a great fighters and they credited thier ability to thier teacher and these men were able to teach this knowledge to others and so on. As people added to and modified the teachings the methods that this first teacher taught became refined and the reputation of the abilities that the students of this system acquired became acknowledged. Now a days people are innundated with information and when they seek knowledge they want to have some standard to judge the knowledge that is being presented. I.E. a lawyer with a Harvard degree has more credability than say some one who a few noted lawyers admit can argue well. You base your credability on psuedo credentials that you are not will ing to produce, so you will be attacked. The mere fact that you do this is a red flag. Just a thought , if I put a few more stripe on my belt and go to a seminar with high ranking martial artists the fact that none of them asks me to take my belt off or prove my ranking doesn't mean that they 'recognise' my abilities.

 

[sweeper]

as an example (sort of) of what garym said, if you lok at these various threds where lineage is in debate, when people have been discussing the lineage of any of the arts studied (by the given people) they have discussed the ability of their seniors and their training. That is to say it doesn't matter if there is a lineage and someine gave the rank to someone else over 400 years, it could be a lineage of BS for all an ignorant person could know.. So every relevant step (resent instructors in line) is questioned and the combined reputation of the instructors in addition to the ability of a teacher is what genneraly what people judege skill by.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by sweeper
as an example (sort of) of what garym said, if you lok at these various threds where lineage is in debate, when people have been discussing the lineage of any of the arts studied (by the given people) they have discussed the ability of their seniors and their training. That is to say it doesn't matter if there is a lineage and someine gave the rank to someone else over 400 years, it could be a lineage of BS for all an ignorant person could know.. So every relevant step (resent instructors in line) is questioned and the combined reputation of the instructors in addition to the ability of a teacher is what genneraly what people judege skill by.

I don’t think the whole argument was about lineage, at least not from me anyway.
My point was if you are going to make claim to titles and ranks be prepared to show them or prove your claims.
You don’t see me going after JKD, American Kempo guys because their arts are somewhat new. Funny thing is I don’t remember Bruce Lee every claiming rank.
When I lived in China I never heard any MA people talk about rank so you’ll have to excuse me if I decide to question someone that claims to be a Soke ( a Japanese word BTW) of a Chinese art he “developed” after never studying any Chinese art.………………. red flags start to pop up even more when he is asked about certain arts he claims to have high dan rank in but doesn’t actually know how many kata are in the system. I know I am just a dumb Cajun that fell off the Gumbo boat but that strikes me as odd.

It’s the people that make the claims to bloated rank, Soke titles and so on that I call into question. They could be good or bad martial artists…………I could care less.
I have met many of these self-appointed Soke or their high ranked students and not once have they ever been able to do any decent technique on me or my students.
In fact most of what they do is pure crap.
I am not trying to sound macho or say my style is better than everyone else’s, in fact if you look at any of my posts and I hardly ever mention my training or my style, and only do so when asked about something, but when something works I have no qualms about saying so.
Yiliquan1 and I have worked out on numerous occasions and he has some awesome technique. I have just recently worked out very briefly with a gentleman who competes in Sambo/Gracie Jujutsu type events and if I’m not mistaken was Senior Men’s Champion at one point. Great guy, great technique, I have no idea what rank he is. He didn't say.

There are 2 Chinese chung yu ( for the meaning of chung yu see below)that come to mind when I see these Soke and bloated rank types.

You ming wu shr = have name lack reality = A mere name, a fraud.

Hwa She tyan dzu = draw snake add feet = unnecessary embellishment

(A chung yu is a Chinese idiom that consists of 4 kanji )

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
Yiliquan1 and I have worked out on numerous occasions and he has some awesome technique.

By "awesome technique," he means I get my *** kicked really well... Nobody can get their *** kicked quite as well as I can, and I question the ability of anyone here to be able to have their *** handed to them quite as well as I can have mine handed to me...

Thank you very much.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Aegis]

I'm sure if I picked a fight with either of you, I'd do fairly well at getting my *** handed to me. In fact, in the time it took me to recover, you could hand it over on a plate with a salad dressing on the side.

I felt I had to butt in here because I feel that my ability to get beaten in a fight has come into question. I will quite happily stand here and yell out as loud as I can that everyone can beat me in a fight, but no-one's allowed to try in case I accidentally win, ok?

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Aegis
I'm sure if I picked a fight with either of you, I'd do fairly well at getting my *** handed to me. In fact, in the time it took me to recover, you could hand it over on a plate with a salad dressing on the side.

I feel I must make a stand on behalf of all those with whom I have trained (a long and respectable list, I might add), martial luminaries who have delivered *** handings the likes of which simple people like you and so many others on this board could never aspire to...

I have been beaten in the most glorious ways imaginable. My skill at being beaten rivals that of the worst students of the great masters of old!

I hereby proclaim a standing challenge to any and all comers that I can be beaten far worse/better than anyone else at all!

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

I heard someting in here about Bruce Lee not claiming rank.

True. But he gave it out.

He awarded 3rd rank to Taky Kimura, James Lee and Dan Inosanto. I'm not positive who got what first. I don't care.

Bruce gave up on giving rank.

He awarded several other ranks to other people below 3rd rank.

He awarded 2nd rank to Ted Wong.

Bruce was Ted Wongs first and only instructor. It has been proven through Bruces personal notes that Ted Wong had something like 22 months of instruction, a lot of it being personal instruction.

Ted didn't make it to 3rd rank, yet he is sought after around the world for seminars being recognized as a true master.

I know the real answer but I want to here from some people in particular.

My Question Here Is For The Tradionalist!!

Bruce Lee, was not certified himself. So all of the systems and instructors that came after him (with lineage to him), are they legitimate instructors and systems?

Here are just a few examples:

Ted Wong coming to Ottawa April 5&6, 2003

Ted Wong will be conducting a two day Seminar.
Location: DRAGON TREE
1111a Wellington Street
Ottawa, Ontario
For more Info on Cost/Times
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 1-613-761-8090.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.academyjkd.com/
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.jerrypoteet.com/
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.geocities.com/Tao_Of_Gung_Fu/The_Nucleus_Of_Gung_Fu.html
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.oaklandjkd.ws/

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by chufeng
Prior to Yili, I studied both Judo and TaeKwonDo...I had five years of Judo and had attained the rank of Sankyu...Prior to these arts I wrestled and boxed (both of my brothers were Golden Gloves champions for ten years in a seven state region...John actually fought for the US team overseas...I regularly kicked his butt, but was not interested in competing)...none of those arts had what I was looking for...

I studied YiLi with Sifu Starr from October, 1982 thru June, 1986.
Then I joined the Army (for a second time)...
I trained at the kwoon 4 to 6 days a week and attended every "weekend intensive seminar" that was offered (5 hours on Friday evening...0730 - 2300 on Saturday...and 0730 to 1730 on Sunday), they were offered about three times a year. When I trained at the kwoon, I sometimes would attend morning and evening classes and would train for three hours at home, as well.

I also attended a number of seminars in other systems...
Oyata Sensei x 2...Nishiyama Sensei x 1...Fusaro Sensei x 1...Smaby Sensei x 5...

It seems like a short time (4 years) but when you add up the hours...it was the equivalant of maybe 9 years at a regular dojo.

Once I left Iowa, I trained for 3 to 7 hours every day...1986 to 1991...(during this time I also trained in Aikido and FutGar Kung Fu...I found those same elements in our system...)

I taught YiLi to anyone interested...many people came (mostly black belts), few stuck around...training is hard...and when it comes to meeting the "standard" for our system, I am a butthead.

In 1991, I started my Master's program in anesthesia...I had to cut back on my training...but the time I put in up front paid off in spades...because, even though I'm a broken down fat fart now, I can still whoop Yiliquan1's butt

At any rate...the secret to skill in any art is simply HARD WORK...
I am as much a student now as I was when I walked through the
doors of Sifu Starr's school back in 1982...

There it is...pick away at it, as you see fit.

:asian:
chufeng

Why would anyone pick apart your training. You put in 5 years in Judo and received a brown belt. You put in 4 years in a hybrid art which presents itself as traditional and you have alot of training besides that.

I read solid training!

The only thing you left out was who and where and how you received permission to teach at an instructor level. Which most definately matters to several people in here!


Also I see some of you personally know each other. to some when you guys push your opinions it would seem like tag teaming. Of course if you guys have something in common and you see someone preaching something differant you will speak up. I'm just saying I understand why several of you have the same or similar opinions, thats all.

 

[James Kovacich]

Here is a couple examples of receiving rank from an organization other than your own without anyproof of training under them with the exception that Ed Parker was Adriano Emperados student for about 2 weeks before he became William Chows student. That 2 weeks however are not valid because it was 2 weeks as a beginner!

I know this because long I was JKD, I was Kajukenbo. Ed Parkers high rank did not come from William Chow.
I'm only speaking about his 8th degree. It came from adriano Emperado the founder of Kajukenbo. Emperado was qualified to give this rank but the question re-appears.

William Chow is still alive but Ed Parker gets a high rank from Emperado.

Also Adriano Emperado received his high rank from someone other than William Chow. See for your self:

http://www.ohiokajukenbo.com/cgi-bi...?board=hist_gen

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x

CN: Kajukenbo has a lot of kung fu elements, did you also train in kung fu?

EMPERADO: Yes, in my 30s I also trained in various forms of kung fu under , Professor Wong, and Professor Lau. It was several years later that these Professors and the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Association awarded me the title of Professor, 10th degree. I was also awarded a certificate by Grandmaster Ho Gau of Hong Kong appointing me as an advisor and representative of the "Choy Li Fut" system. This certificate was signed by Grandmaster Ho Gau, Professor Cheuk Tse and the directors of the Hawaii Chinese Physical Culture Association.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxx

CN: How well did you know Ed Parker?

EMPERADO: Before he started training with Professor Chow, Ed trained with me for about 2 weeks. While he was with me he took the first 8mm movies of the Palama settlement training. I knew him for many years. At times when I was in California he would have me as his guest of honor at the Long Beach Internationals. After Ed left Hawaii he became estranged from Professor Chow. It was Ed who brought kenpo to mainland America, made it popular, and made so many contributions to the art, so in the late 60s I promoted him to 8th degree black belt.

 

[Kirk]

Lots of people claimed to teach this person or that. Yet they
made the claim after the person has passed. The fact that he
claims that he was his student for 2 weeks doesn't jive with any
of SGM Parker's readings that I've read. He started his training
with William Chow's brother, according to Mr Parker's own words
in Infinite Insights, and his brother gave him a personal
introduction to William, when Mr Parker's abilities were as good
as his teacher's. Mr Parker made no mention of Adriano
Emparado teaching him.

As to being given an 8th. That I don't know, specifically, but he
sure as hell wasn't the only one to do it. Many do such things in
order to swindle themselves more students. Just because it's
offered and accepted doesn't mean that the one who accepted it
gives a flippin' darn about it, displays it anywhere, or even claims
it. The pure fact of the matter is that Mr Parker, with Chow's
blessing started what he felt was a new art, and eventually for
that reason (and for business reasons) he declared himself as a
10th degree, Senior Grandmaster of American Kenpo.

Doc, if you're still reading, you can attest even more on this
subject ... please do.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Kirk
Lots of people claimed to teach this person or that. Yet they
made the claim after the person has passed. The fact that he
claims that he was his student for 2 weeks doesn't jive with any
of SGM Parker's readings that I've read. He started his training
with William Chow's brother, according to Mr Parker's own words
in Infinite Insights, and his brother gave him a personal
introduction to William, when Mr Parker's abilities were as good
as his teacher's. Mr Parker made no mention of Adriano
Emparado teaching him.

As to being given an 8th. That I don't know, specifically, but he
sure as hell wasn't the only one to do it. Many do such things in
order to swindle themselves more students. Just because it's
offered and accepted doesn't mean that the one who accepted it
gives a flippin' darn about it, displays it anywhere, or even claims
it. The pure fact of the matter is that Mr Parker, with Chow's
blessing started what he felt was a new art, and eventually for
that reason (and for business reasons) he declared himself as a
10th degree, Senior Grandmaster of American Kenpo.

Doc, if you're still reading, you can attest even more on this
subject ... please do.

Doc, knows the truth and if he chooses to say differant, then he should offer something to prove it.

He attacked my credibility, my point is its simple to understand that all martial arts have some dirt in their history.

The real point is that even "our senior masters" have received rank from outside organizations. In these cases, if they had not, then American Kenpo for example would not have all these 10th Dans or for that matter probably there wouldnt be any above a rank of somewhere around a 7th dan that wasn't self promoted.

 

[A.R.K.]

Yiliquan1,

And that is a convenient argument for folks who refuse to acknowledge that regardless of individual expression, there still remain certain standards in every walk of life, every vocation, every avocation. Those standards are typically determined by a concensus of the group in question, and the concensus here seems to be that rank granted by organizations outside the one you belong to, or rank granted by teachers other than those from your own system, is questionable at very best.

The consensus here is the key point in this passage. Your talking about a hand full of people, who know each other, butting heads with others. Thats not a consensus. Thats chit-chat. Organizations have been doing this from the beginning as I have indicated in previous posts. Sometimes for good and sometimes for bad. But it has been done long before you and I got here and will be done after we are gone. Folks here can debate the issue intelligently, and a few here can go on a temper tantrum...but it is not a consensus of what goes on in the real world and is inmaterial anyway. Your displeasure with it is pretty meaningless. And your displeasure does not invalidate what a person knows and can teach.

Some of you folks get so upset over things you have no knowlegde of, can't control and can't change You act like the MA's is something more than it is. It's basic function is self-protection, it is that simple. Everything else is window dressing. The ONLY thing that counts is can you defend yourself in a real fight, a real life/death situation. You can debate forms and techniques and this and that...doesn't matter except in the dojo where people are concerned with such things. Real Bg's aren't interested in your forms or historical knowledge.

You guys think I'm questionable. So? You lost your mind over the word Soke. You lost your mind over Dan rank. You continue to make inuendo and allegations....but never once backed them up. So I say to you and your friends...back it up. Prove that I have not been awarded a Sokeship from Grandmasters. Prove that I do not have an 8th Dan in a style. Prove I have not been in combat against real Bg's as I have stated. Prove that my student's aren't VERY well trained.

Someone here has a problem that I choose a Chinese style name for my system...so? You guys can continue to be as nasty as you like. For all your posts, for all your inuendos, for all your allegations...it is only your opinion and doesn't mean anything. Doesn't affect my training or my teaching. I has provide great entertainment value though

Soke is used all over the world. Like it or not. Your like or dislike is inmaterial and I suspect that is why you get so worked up about it here. It has blinded you and thats a shame. Your words on a computer screen are just that...words. And once again you are entitled to your opinions its just a shame you can't express those opinions nicely...or back them up.

Have a nice day [opps there I go being nice again ]