Dan rank in another system - your input...

[A.R.K.]

As I said in the other thread, you are welcome....and thank you for the fair shake. :asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
The Ph.D. was conferred on me by a royal Saudia Arabian prince through the college of criminology in that country and is registered in the State of Delaware.

Conferred………..you mean like an "Honorary" degree that you didn’t actually have to write a thesis or attend classes for.

 

[chufeng]

Zhao,

The Ph.D. was conferred on me by a royal Saudia Arabian prince through the college of criminology in that country and is registered in the State of Delaware. I can't tell you his name off hand as it is long and although I speak some Arabic I am not fluent...yet. Is it a Harvard degree...no. Is it legite...yes. I did not pay a dime for it. It was confered on me because of my experience and background and the work I have done thus far here in the Academies, through the KYHA as State of Florida Representative and previous education. Why the Arabs? I have strong ties to Israel, Jordan, Saudi, Turkey and Iran. Politics aside, the are fine people and MA's. I also have family that is Arabic. It is in philosophy.

What you have is an "Honorary PhD in Philosophy..."
Nothing wrong with that...but you should be careful how you present it to the public. If you did not complete a university PhD program, here, or elsewhere, you did not receive a PhD...one of the requirements for a PhD is a formal dissertation on something you researched...usually they are published...

Not a slam...just some advice...when you present credentials, make sure you do it in such a way so as not to draw fire (I think you are familiar with drawing fire:wink:
Honorary degrees are granted for experience (like yours) and they should be presented as such...they are conferred as a recognition for your real world experiences (which usually are more legitimate than book learning)...

Thanks again for the information.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Zhao,

The bulk of my experience has been military, executive protection and LEO [corrections]. It has been hands on. I have spent VERY little time in a dojo, in a Gi, doing kata. Yes I have done it...but the majority of training was how to take down crack heads that felt no pain. [I will not comment on my military service because I CAN'T].

I have 22 years in the military...I know a number of people who can't talk about what they do or what they did...I don't expect you to put that kind of information on the internet...and the less you say about it the better...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[A.R.K.]

Chufeng,

What I have are three separate certificates with the royal seals etc. None of them say 'honorary' but then, I don't know if they would. I do not use the 'title' except for limited coorospondence. For example, here at work I don't sign a report Deputy XXX YYY Ph.D.

For the limited corrospondence that I do use it [MA] the only way I know how to use it is Ph.D. I feel that I have earned them from experience and if they are [and they probably are] honorary I know of no other way to use the initials.

Are they not presented the same either way at the end of a signature? If there is a different way then please show me.

Appreciate it.

 

[chufeng]

Zhao,

Men with twice the years that I have from multiple countries use the title Soke, right or wrong. I didn't have the first clue what it meant. It was explained to me that it simply meant founder. Sounded simple enough to me.

Maybe you should reconsider the title...
You admit you didn't know what it meant...
RyuShiKan, although a bit harsh, has provided you and everyone here with an excellent history of that term...
No harm, no foul if you change that title to something that is more in line with what you actually did..."create/found" a system.

My teacher went out on a limb when he founded YiLiQuan...
He was truly a Soke in the real sense of the word because Master Chen Wing Chou bequeathed the system of BaiXingQuan to Sifu in his Last Will and Testament...but Sifu saw that the WAY BaiXing was taught was very inefficient and he streamlined the teaching method...he founded YiLiQuan in 1982...he MADE all of his BaiXing seniors conform to the new system...he gave them a year to get the revised information straight...he held intensive seminars to help them do that.
Does Sifu use the term Soke? No...never did...(mostly because it is a Chinese system...but he never used the Chinese equivalent, either)...

He never referred to himself, publicly, as anything other than Pete (or Phillip) Starr...we students always referred to him as Sifu (teacher)...

Think about it...if ego is not an issue with you, then save yourself a lot of hassles and use the appropriate terms to describe yourself...Back in 1990. I was offered a Master of Martial Arts certificate from ??? organziation simply because I had been training for ten years...I said No Thank You! My license to teach comes from my teacher...not some self appointed council...

Thanks again for your post...and I hope this post helps you.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[A.R.K.]

chufeng,

I lost me ego about twenty years ago and haven't been able to locate it since

I don't have a problem using 'founder' and even changing it on my site. I don't use it in person so that's not even an issue.

As far as Ryushikan, I know your friends but he was not 'a bit harsh', he was an A-hole and is still being one to this very hour [my apologies to the moderator for being blunt]. He bum rushed me with his bull-in-the-china-shop routine. Do you think if he had tried the polite approach and just welcomed me in and got to know me and offered his opinion/advice in a professional manner that things might have gone different?

I'm not fond of him but I bear no ill will against him. Doesn't matter though, he'll continue on as he has been despite anything I do or say. Its a shame to because he seems to have some good knowledge on somethings and that is my reason for being here to begin with. I don't know everything. But I do know somethings and am willing to share them as well.

But he's not having any.

So I appreciate your civility and look forward to other issues with you.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
Zhao,



Maybe you should reconsider the title...
You admit you didn't know what it meant...
RyuShiKan, although a bit harsh, has provided you and everyone here with an excellent history of that term...
No harm, no foul if you change that title to something that is more in line with what you actually did..."create/found" a system.

As I said in a few posts before……..why not just use the English word “Founder” instead of misusing a foreign word. Nobody could have any beef with that since you are the "founder".

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei

As far as Ryushikan, I know your friends but he was not 'a bit harsh', he was an A-hole and is still being one to this very hour [my apologies to the moderator for being blunt]. He bum rushed me with his bull-in-the-china-shop routine. Do you think if he had tried the polite approach and just welcomed me in and got to know me and offered his opinion/advice in a professional manner that things might have gone different?

You are not the first person that I have questioned about this kind of thing.
I had dealings with another “Soke” that was making claims to certain ranks and so on from dojo in Okinawa and Japan. He made the mistake of claiming to have trained at my friend’s dojo and claimed to have gotten dan rank as well.
I quick call to my friend and he was proven to be a liar not only on that issue but on many others.

As for my harshness I have lost my patience with people claiming various things over the Internet. Basically
At the top of the list are foreigners that use/misuse the title Soke.
Second is people that claim one or more, especially more, extremely high dan ranks.
Third is people that claim one or more, especially more, extremely high dan ranks from Okinawan based styles when the people that have trained daily in the Honbu for decades haven’t reached the rank these folks claim. Things like that just don’t add up.
Fourth are people selling rank over the Internet for reasons I have stated?

 

[RyuShiKan]

 

[A.R.K.]

It is never correct to lose patience with someone you don't know. This other person is not a reflection of me. You would have known this had you simply welcomed me in and gotten to know me.

I have already changed my site to 'founder'.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei


I have already changed my site to 'founder'.

Kool

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
I mistakenly though [back at that time] that going for the 8th would lend 'more' credibility to ZDW. I now know that paper is not who I am and it didn't matter. We all have to live with our mistakes and if I could do it over I would. But I can't.

Well, one step toward avoiding having to deal repeatedly with rank you don't care about is to cease publishing it for the world to see...

The USADR is the only American organization I have submitted the Pangai-noon to. Dr. Mihails Pupinsh of the International Combat Martial Arts Union International has also recognized it in Europe. KYHA recognizes my 5th alone as I never submitted Pangai-noon to them. The 5th is recorded at Dong Koo Yudo Kwan.

Are there no organizations for Pangainoon nor Shuri-te that you could belong to and validate your rank with? It would seem a far more consistent thing to do, belonging to an organization for the particular art you study as opposed to going to other organizations with nothing to do with the art you studied...

The bulk of my experience has been military, executive protection and LEO [corrections]. It has been hands on. I have spent VERY little time in a dojo, in a Gi, doing kata. Yes I have done it...but the majority of training was how to take down crack heads that felt no pain. [I will not comment on my military service because I CAN'T].

So you have a 5th dan and an 8th dan, both granted with "VERY little time in a dojo, in a Gi, doing kata." Now you are also trying to say that your Air Force time (I remember you referred to an Air Force base in a post a bit back, so I am guessing you were in the Air Force - feel free to correct me) has some bearing on your martial arts skills. This lends additional red flags, since very little time is spent training on HTH skills in the military - we have rifles, grenade launchers, machine guns, and artillery to take care of the bad guy long before HTH becomes an issue. It is yet another modern myth in the martial arts community that military service equates to advanced HTH training. It just doesn't exist. And if your military service is of such high security classification, why did you bring it up in the first place? I have never discussed any of the particulars of my service... RyuShiKan, who I consider a very close and dear friend, even had elements of my military history confused, simply because I have never discussed my background to any great degree (I have cool "Army Buddy" stories, but that is as far as I usually go).

You are hinging on the "e-mugging" you received after posting here. You continue to hinge on how RyuShiKan hit you 10 times before you were able to reply. Now, after 80+ posts of your own, you are only now beginning to answer some of the questions posed to you by RyuShiKan and others...

Whatever. If I had any more strength left after Chufeng kicking my *** this morning, I'd type more. But I am done with this silliness. Until I see what you have to offer, I am simply filing "David Shulz" martial arts in a back drawer labeled "X-files." You could have posted your training details, but you have tapdanced around and away from such disclosure. You have been shown that the terms you use lead others to view what you do in a questionable light, but rather than acquiesce or simply acknowledge that they may be right, you paint yourself as a victim of internet impoliteness.

Whatever. I'm going to look around other threads and unsubscribe from this one. Somebody tell me if ZDW ever comes clean.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Kirk]

A bit off of subject here, but there is a marketing benefit to a high
rank. To those with little, or no previous martial art training.

 

[Mike Clarke]

ZDW,
"Are you talk'in to me?"

I don't know squat!!!!

If you mean hiding behind military secrets, you're right.
If you mean claiming ranks that I don't have, you're right.
And if you mean getting a Phd from the University of Looserville, then you're correct there too.

Your not old enough to have an 8th dan in Okinawan karate both in terms of age or years training, which in your case wasn't much by your own account.
Be the founder of your own system by all means, but don't think that puts you in any position other than the hundreds of others who couldn't go the distance as a student, and felt it was time they became a leader.

I've read nothing you have had to say that would make me think you are anything other than what I said in my last post, a Kuchi Bushi. You don't have to prove anything to me. I already recognise you for what you are.

Mike.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
That wasn't the point. The point was, how many are of Ed Parker's caliber? Or Bruce Lee's? Any old fool can go off and start there own system, though it doesn't mean they should.

Cthulhu

OK, that was your point. But my point was as stated.

And any old fool can go on and start there own system, though it dosen't mean they should, it also dosen't mean they shouldn't.

If someone makes significant enough changes in what they have learned, should it carry the original name?

If they used the original name then the "purist" of the original art will say that you are no longer the original art.

Really, you are damned and damned if you don't.

It dosen't matter what the world thinks, theres always going to be someone out there whining about something I just did. I'm not referring to you Cthulhu, you've been rational, I'm talking about those that thiink they should be the worlds authourity on martial arts, which is what they imply when they tell people of other systems that they are wrong.

What I practice and teach does not represent any single art and deserves its own name and Kempo and Jujitsu is just the simplest and most direct explanation of what I do.

Also Kempo and Jujitsu does not imply a style nor does it imply that they are are affiliated with anybodys elses style. It couldn't be anymore generic. My use of the word Atemi is to make it not to be considered related to one of the other Kempo Jujitsus out there.

 

[GaryM]

I would like to address the original question that started this thread. This is just my opinion and how I see things in this reguard. I always understood a blackbelt to be a teaching certificate. It is supposed to mean that you are proficient in a certain art and have the ability to teach that art up to that level. A dan ranking I understood to mean the same thing. My instructor is good friends with one of the local TKD org's. here in Ut. and for a while they were trading teaching each other a Kata. (fishing buddies too). At one time Mr. Hanna presented Sammy with a blackbelt certificate in his organization. There was no cerimony or witnesses and although it doesn't say so it was understood by each of them that it was 'honorable'. Sammy doesn't use it for credibility (never mentions it), and would never profess to be able to teach TKD. Sammy's older brother trained in Hapikido back in the day and was the one who first introduced him to the martial arts and you might say was his first instructor. A few years back Sammy presented him with a blackbelt in martial arts from his school, Oquirrha Mountain Kenpo Karate. Notice I said 'blackbelt in martial arts' , not in Kenpo. He cannot teach Kenpo and would not claim to be able to. But he can teach martial arts, if you take that to mean how to fight. I feel that to award someone a blackbelt in a system you would have to be from that system. How else could you evaluate the knowledge that the practicioner had in that art? However what happens when a martial arts teacher (whatever his art or system may be) is no longer affiliated with his instructor or organization? If he/she is activly teaching, unless there is a way for the teacher to be promoted the students can never rise above the rank that thier teacher holds. For this I feel that the ATAMA organization has the best solution. They recognise teaching ability and promote based on this.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by GaryM
I would like to address the original question that started this thread. This is just my opinion and how I see things in this reguard. I always understood a blackbelt to be a teaching certificate. It is supposed to mean that you are proficient in a certain art and have the ability to teach that art up to that level. A dan ranking I understood to mean the same thing. My instructor is good friends with one of the local TKD org's. here in Ut. and for a while they were trading teaching each other a Kata. (fishing buddies too). At one time Mr. Hanna presented Sammy with a blackbelt certificate in his organization. There was no cerimony or witnesses and although it doesn't say so it was understood by each of them that it was 'honorable'. Sammy doesn't use it for credibility (never mentions it), and would never profess to be able to teach TKD. Sammy's older brother trained in Hapikido back in the day and was the one who first introduced him to the martial arts and you might say was his first instructor. A few years back Sammy presented him with a blackbelt in martial arts from his school, Oquirrha Mountain Kenpo Karate. Notice I said 'blackbelt in martial arts' , not in Kenpo. He cannot teach Kenpo and would not claim to be able to. But he can teach martial arts, if you take that to mean how to fight. I feel that to award someone a blackbelt in a system you would have to be from that system. How else could you evaluate the knowledge that the practicioner had in that art? However what happens when a martial arts teacher (whatever his art or system may be) is no longer affiliated with his instructor or organization? If he/she is activly teaching, unless there is a way for the teacher to be promoted the students can never rise above the rank that thier teacher holds. For this I feel that the ATAMA organization has the best solution. They recognise teaching ability and promote based on this.

I checked it out and it is a definate move in the right direction. What it is lacking is what they can't help. It is based on being able to judge those by which they have members who can do the judging.

The number of actual styles represented is limited thus leaving membership in ATAMA limited to advancement only if your style is represented.

There are other organizations and organizations in the works that addresses this by offering the experienced martial artist a chance to learn the core of the organizations system and test within that system along with guidance in the future.

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by akja
[B

The number of actual styles represented is limited thus leaving membership in ATAMA limited to advancement only if your style is represented.

[/B]

No, not true. Being accepted to the organization takes a bit because they feel that by recognizing someone of questionable abilities or credentials or character would reflect negativly on all. However promotion within is based on activly teaching, learning, and the rank of your students. I admit that this could be abused and a member could start to be a 'belt factory' in order to quickly gain high rank, however every effort is made to verify the 'character' of the applicant for promotion and the guidelines for said promotion tend to be self policeing as much as possible. Nothing is perfect of course. I went to one of thier seminars a few years back and there were about 10 different systems there teaching, everything from TKD and Kempo to BJJ and Taijjquan (sp?) I read your 'resume' and this may be a very good route for you. Since this is a teaching org. you better have a real cirriculm for your school, with standards and requirments for grade spelled out. Being able to 'kick a**' and teach people how to fight won't be quite enough. Your professionalism, chracter and attitude, as well as the attitude and abilities of you students will have as much bearing on your acceptance as your knowledge and abilities do.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by GaryM
No, not true. Being accepted to the organization takes a bit because they feel that by recognizing someone of questionable abilities or credentials or character would reflect negativly on all. However promotion within is based on activly teaching, learning, and the rank of your students. I admit that this could be abused and a member could start to be a 'belt factory' in order to quickly gain high rank, however every effort is made to verify the 'character' of the applicant for promotion and the guidelines for said promotion tend to be self policeing as much as possible. Nothing is perfect of course. I went to one of thier seminars a few years back and there were about 10 different systems there teaching, everything from TKD and Kempo to BJJ and Taijjquan (sp?) I read your 'resume' and this may be a very good route for you. Since this is a teaching org. you better have a real cirriculm for your school, with standards and requirments for grade spelled out. Being able to 'kick a**' and teach people how to fight won't be quite enough. Your professionalism, chracter and attitude, as well as the attitude and abilities of you students will have as much bearing on your acceptance as your knowledge and abilities do.

I see what your talking about now. I did bookmark that site. I may of misunderstood what I was reading. I do have a curriculum which is nearly completely documeted for my manual and the same goes with the videos that I'm working on. Its a medium for defining evrything that I do. Also it is my goal that all of my instructors will recognize my system.