Points to ponder

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
There are several people in Japan that have the authentic title of Soke but are the heads of schools that date back 400~500 years and have been passed down through each generation. AND, not always to a family member.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all of those individuals listed in the All Japan rolls dealing with legitimate ryuha from koryu traditions?

All of these folks can provide documentation of their inheritance of their arts as well, and they weren't given titles by a concensus vote of their "peers."

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all of those individuals listed in the All Japan rolls dealing with legitimate ryuha from koryu traditions?

All of these folks can provide documentation of their inheritance of their arts as well, and they weren't given titles by a concensus vote of their "peers."

That's correct.

In fact there are several Ryuha that date back more than 800 years.
Another point is that ALL of them were "battle tested".
By that I mean they were used in life or death contests.....not merely bar room brawls or street fights but actually events where one or more of the opponents didn't get up........ever.
Although he never used the title Soke names like Miayamoto Musashi come to mind. He killed over 60 people by the time he was 30 and when he was 60 wrote that he was just “lucky” and didn’t really understand the art of sword then.
Talk about humble……….


I wonder how many American Soke can lay claim to such contests..........

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
That's correct.

In fact there are several Ryuha that date back more than 800 years.
Another point is that ALL of them were "battle tested".
By that I mean they were used in life or death contests.....not merely bar room brawls or street fights but actually events where one or more of the opponents didn't get up........ever.
Although he never used the title Soke names like Miayamoto Musashi come to mind. He killed over 60 people by the time he was 30 and when he was 60 wrote that he was just “lucky” and didn’t really understand the art of sword then.
Talk about humble……….


I wonder how many American Soke can lay claim to such contests..........

YOU THREE FOOLS REMIND ME OF 3 LITTLE B$$cHES.

JUST HOW MANY DEATH MATCHES HAVE YOU HAD?

JUST BY YOUR TALK I KNOW YOU ARE A SORRY PIECE OF $H!T, FAKE A$$, CAN'T FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE FOOLS!!!!!

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by chufeng
DAC,

I think it interesting that just a few days after ZhaoDaiWei enters the scene with his (paraphrased) "I am here to offer guidance..." rhetoric...and then his claims to SOKESHIP...you show up from the same area of the country and with similar training background...

This may help you to understand why he posts........

From Phil's Field Guide to Trolls
An Analysis of Forum Fauna

Virtual Sensei
How To Spot "Teachers" Worth Avoiding

Sycophantic Student Support
The VS is a teacher, after all, and as such he or she has students. These students don't like cognitive dissonance any more than anyone else does, so they close ranks when their instructor feels threatened. Usually those who post in support of the VS have an extremely low post count, having only recently registered. The supporters may pretend that they do not know the VS personally. They certainly do not like to admit to being students of the criticized individual, as this (understandably) harms their credibility.
I live in the same area and I train in the same art, but I don't know [VS in question]. His [or her] posts make sense to me, though. The rest of you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
YOU THREE FOOLS REMIND ME OF 3 LITTLE B$$cHES.

Interesting observation. I wonder what Freud would say about that….:rofl:

Originally posted by akja
JUST HOW MANY DEATH MATCHES HAVE YOU HAD?

Obviously you have never driven in Tokyo rush hour traffic.:rofl:

Originally posted by akja
JUST BY YOUR TALK I KNOW YOU ARE A SORRY PIECE OF $H!T, FAKE A$$, CAN'T FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE FOOLS!!!!!

How I envy your powers over time and space

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Well thus far this has at least been an interesting character study

Interesting to note the lack of courtesy on the parts of some. I believe that courtesy is one of the more admirable attachments that have been associated with the Martial Arts.

Ryushikan,

Because you do not agree with several poster's opinions does not give you the right or authority to be disrespectful or antagonistic. You continue to make smart aleck remarks, inuendoes and assumptions despite firsthand knowledge of any of us. You seek to discredit people without having that firsthand knowledge and end up dicrediting yourself. This is sad and is your loss. I don't think anything I can say or add will satisfy you as you have a pre-conceived idea and an unwillingness to engage others in anyway that may promote fellowship. That chip on your shoulder must indeed be heavy.

Martialartist,

I'm not sure why you think my training is predominatly Japanese. By and large it has a Chinese infuence, although it has a fair exposure to Japan, Israeli, Canadian and Great Britian. I prefer the kyu/Dan ranking structure which is why I have chosen to include it. It is proper Mandrine. As for mixing/matching terms, I have seen no rule book that prohibits this. If their is one then we need to address Korean Yudo, American Karate, Brazilan Ju Jitsu, and then there is the whole Agni situation. I look at it as a tribute to those systems that I have been fortunate to train in as well as to those Grandmasters/Masters who have had a part in my development. If someone differs in opinion on this that is fine. But it does not diminish the system except perhaps to those who agonize over such things. But then, those people are not amoung my students.

Dac, Akja and others, I appreciate your kind words as well as your understanding of the content of my post. Nobody likes everybody and some don't like anybody I put them in prayer and move. He who issues insults and antagonistic remarks suffers from low self-esteem and is to be prayed for and not hated.

Peace and Love

Phil's Field Guide to Trolls
An Analysis of Forum Fauna

The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree -- particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views -- Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by akja
YOU THREE FOOLS REMIND ME OF 3 LITTLE B$$cHES.

JUST HOW MANY DEATH MATCHES HAVE YOU HAD?

JUST BY YOUR TALK I KNOW YOU ARE A SORRY PIECE OF $H!T, FAKE A$$, CAN'T FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE FOOLS!!!!!

Virtual Sensei
How To Spot "Teachers" Worth Avoiding

Inappropriate Anger and Vulgarity
Legitimate teachers rarely resort to profanity, and the average school instructor will not lose his temper answering criticism from anonymous Internet denizens. Any man or woman secure in his or her art will shrug off baseless accusations. These men and women may also invite the critics to train with them, but their approach is much less hostile than that of the average VS.

The VS, by contrast, can't stand to be questioned. Bullies are quick to anger, and martial arts frauds are insecure and easily threatened. When they find themselves cornered they will start swearing and making vulgar threats, often sending e-mail or private messages to their detractors. These messages would make a sailor blush, and often include explicit or implicit threats of bodily harm.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Administrator Warning

Couple of points:

On the suggestion that some individuals may be 1 in the same:
Based on our logs, no.

On 'Sharp Phils Troll Guide:
Enough already....I've seen it quoted here so often I expect Phil to hit us with a copyright infringement or something.

On this thread in general:
Theres been a good amount of info, mostly done in a 'reasonable' way. Given the 'heat' between certain folks, it is due to this information that we have let it go this long without 'getting involved'.

However....

RyuShiKan - Take your issues to email. It is obvious that the questions you have been harping on will not be answered, for whatever reason.

akja - Typing in caps is considered rude on forums. Additionally, doing the $ trick to circumvent our profanity filters is against our policies. While I can understand being pissed, please don't do it again.


Most folks in these hot discussions have been within what we consider the 'acceptable' range here..that is the 'heated, but still respectful' or 'disagree in a mature manner'.

this is addressed to the few who weren't:
Y'all have a choice...
Either figure out how to communicate in a reasonably professional way, or find your memberships revoked.

This forum is for you to use and share. It is not a place for settling personal vendettas, or only open to a select few. There are hundreds if not thousands of arts out there, all with varying degrees of traditions, seriousness, and 'realness'. Words change, techniques change, names change. Theres an infinite number of ways to throw a punch, all with varying degrees of effectivness, control, and safety.

The only constant here is change. You can either contribute in a friendly, professional, respectful manner, or you can leave. MartialTalk is a more laidback forum compared to some...please do not confuse our being laid back, to being lax.

I will leave you with this one thought: "Opinions are like ***-holes...everyone has one, and at some point, they always stink."

Now, play nice.

Thank you.
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
On 'Sharp Phils Troll Guide:
Enough already....I've seen it quoted here so often I expect Phil to hit us with a copyright infringement or something.

Next time I'll just post a link........

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
RyuShiKan - Take your issues to email. It is obvious that the questions you have been harping on will not be answered, for whatever reason.

Are you referring to questions about Zhao Dai Wei's claims to rank in certain styles?
I am wondering why I should.
My questions are legitimate and if he truly has the rank why doesn’t he just post the information I asked for….....……I find his lack of willingness to post that information speaks volumes.

 

[Mike Clarke]

It's a simple enough request to make if some one claims rank they should be able to back it up with names and dates etc.

So, Zhou dai wei, we're waiting.

Mike.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
I will use myself as an example. I have a Dan in Pangai-noon.

:shrug: really?

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
What is the Martial Arts? Boil away the fluff and feathers and the pious attachments it is a means of injuring or killing someone…ideally in defense of ones self, loved one or property. That’s the bottom line.

Actually no, and this is where your lack of linguistic skills does you in.
When look at the kanji for “Bu” you will see the kanji for “stop” and the kanji for “Fight” therefore Bu= Stop the fight. If you are aware of the linguistic intricacies you will better understand the concept behind the word.
Therefore Budo is not about injuring or killing someone. It’s about life protection not life destruction.

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Maybe Soke originally meant founder and maybe it didn’t. I don’t know, nor do I care.

So you are using a word you don’t know or care about the meaning of???
Then why do you use the title “Soke” ?

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
There are a BUNCH of folks who consider Soke to simply mean founder and nothing more. People with far more experience and years in than I have, and probably more than 90% of the posters here.

And who might these linguistically challenged people be?

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Highly respected organizations not only use the term but…GASP…issues it or honors individuals with it. If it did not originally mean founder…well it does now and in a whole lot of countries! Btw, my ‘Sokeship’ was granted to me by my betters in Kobe, Japan and also recognized/recorded in Soul South Korea and Saudia Arabia.

Who are these “betters” in Kobe?
Can you supply us with some information on them?

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
If someone has little or no training and then opens up a school to teach and laugh all the way to the bank, then yeah, we can voice concern.

I think that is many people’s point here.

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
If a term is different or changed it’s meaning along the way, well it happens and not just in the ‘Martial Arts’.

Why do you feel the need to use/misuse Asian words at all?
Then why not just call yourself “bonehead” if you don’t really care about the meaning of the word you are using. In fact for me the title Bonehead in English now means Grandmaster-Soke in fact they are interchangable. So the moderators can’t give me any grief if I use that title to describe you since it now means Grandmaster-Soke………somehow I don’t think that is going to fly with them.

 

[GaryM]

RyuShiKan, Could you post that link please? The one for Phils guide, thanx in advance. Gary

 

[RyuShiKan]

Sure.

Phil's stuff cracks me up.....mostly because it's so damn accurate.

http://www.philelmore.com/profiling/profiling.htm

 

[GaryM]

Zao Dai Wei,
We're waiting. Not holding our breaths mind you.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Administrator Warning

Couple of points:

On the suggestion that some individuals may be 1 in the same:
Based on our logs, no.

On 'Sharp Phils Troll Guide:
Enough already....I've seen it quoted here so often I expect Phil to hit us with a copyright infringement or something.

On this thread in general:
Theres been a good amount of info, mostly done in a 'reasonable' way. Given the 'heat' between certain folks, it is due to this information that we have let it go this long without 'getting involved'.

However....

RyuShiKan - Take your issues to email. It is obvious that the questions you have been harping on will not be answered, for whatever reason.

akja - Typing in caps is considered rude on forums. Additionally, doing the $ trick to circumvent our profanity filters is against our policies. While I can understand being pissed, please don't do it again.


Most folks in these hot discussions have been within what we consider the 'acceptable' range here..that is the 'heated, but still respectful' or 'disagree in a mature manner'.

this is addressed to the few who weren't:
Y'all have a choice...
Either figure out how to communicate in a reasonably professional way, or find your memberships revoked.

This forum is for you to use and share. It is not a place for settling personal vendettas, or only open to a select few. There are hundreds if not thousands of arts out there, all with varying degrees of traditions, seriousness, and 'realness'. Words change, techniques change, names change. Theres an infinite number of ways to throw a punch, all with varying degrees of effectivness, control, and safety.

The only constant here is change. You can either contribute in a friendly, professional, respectful manner, or you can leave. MartialTalk is a more laidback forum compared to some...please do not confuse our being laid back, to being lax.

I will leave you with this one thought: "Opinions are like ***-holes...everyone has one, and at some point, they always stink."

Now, play nice.

Thank you.
:asian:

Point taken!

 

[James Kovacich]

I want to be nice today!

Bottom line:

My karate brown belts date back long before my Jeet Kune do and BJJ.

I'm been well versed in JKD since the mid to late '90's. I was qualified by an outside organization on the Original Jeet Kune Do
as taught in Oakland based on what I was taught in Hayward and PROVED by my videos of my Sifu and myself while I was his student.

Most people know very little about JKD and have much advice to give about it!? They have a lot of info on JKDC but little on OJKD. I hate to use those terms because they should be one but you guys need it to be black and white.

I was given Full Instructor status in Jeet Kune Do. The sub-systems that came from Jeet Kune Do are a "basic" way of training JKD without actually going the full route of JKD. I've been over qualified in the sub-systems for several years.

But most importantly, if you yourself are not a prt of the JKD community, then you have no voice in it! Plain and simple. You Are Not Qualifed!!

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by akja
I was given Full Instructor status in Jeet Kune Do.

So you are certified as an instructor in JKD. I assume, then, that your ability to perform was based on your prior, non-senior ranked, training. Fine. But that still doesn't necessarily mitigate the fact that that training was never of an "advanced" level, and the "advanced" teachings of your prior systems/styles were either not taught to you, or you simply were never acknowledged for having learned them (at least in those styles).

Am I correct in this?

But most importantly, if you yourself are not a prt of the JKD community, then you have no voice in it! Plain and simple. You Are Not Qualifed!!

Perhaps not. However, we are members of the martial arts community at large, and we have a certain duty to each other, to our students, and to the public in general, to attempt to both police our own community and to help each other to learn. By pointing out what we see as inconsistent and questionable, rather than getting defensive, I would hope that people would say "if they see it that way, others may as well." In so doing, it offers you the ability to step outside of your subjective perspective and see what others see in an attempt to clean up your appearance.

Sorry if your feathers got ruffled. Sometimes seeing yourself as others see you isn't always a rosy picture.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[A.R.K.]

Here is another 'point to ponder'...

This is specifically for Ryushikan. And I will preface the question by saying that this is in no way a challenge or threat and is to be treated as purely hypothetical. I am curious as to his response...

If I were to fly to Japan and challenge you, or, you fly to America an challenge me and we fought what would be the outcome. Let me be more specific. We are not in the ring, mats, deck etc al, we are in the parking lot with the concrete. Ryu, would I stand any chance against you whatsoever? There is a point here that I wish to make and it has nothing to do with net rambo bravado nor does it have to do with our previous conflict. Would I have any possibility against you in real combat? I'm curious as to your response and I thank you in advance.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Here is another 'point to ponder'...

This is specifically for Ryushikan. And I will preface the question by saying that this is in no way a challenge or threat and is to be treated as purely hypothetical. I am curious as to his response...

If I were to fly to Japan and challenge you, or, you fly to America an challenge me and we fought what would be the outcome. Let me be more specific. We are not in the ring, mats, deck etc al, we are in the parking lot with the concrete. Ryu, would I stand any chance against you whatsoever? There is a point here that I wish to make and it has nothing to do with net rambo bravado nor does it have to do with our previous conflict. Would I have any possibility against you in real combat? I'm curious as to your response and I thank you in advance.

That’s a hypothetical question with only one way to know the answer.

Now how about posing that info several people have asked you for………

 

[A.R.K.]

Now how about posing that info several people have asked you for………

Already have.

That’s a hypothetical question with only one way to know the answer.

So what is your answer?