Ninjustu acceptance in the Martail Arts World

Himura - For now I guess. I'm sure he'll pop up eventually and tell us we are all disgraceful martial arts who don't take our arts seriously

Tez - Nope, not an aussie thing. I've heard the term before of course but never had one. Reading your recipes though sounds like it'd make for a fun party night lol. When I have a cold I take aspirin... :angel:

Pgsmith - Same as I said to Bruno... That's gold!

Muawijhe - No you can't. I'm not planning on giving Mr. Kim Menkyo licences for my art, or Ronin ranks, or any Dan grades or even a membership. He can have a dvd though. Any certificate he issues will not be recognized by our umbrella corporation: SUPRACORP. That being said, if you really wanted to get a black belt with us, just send me a Money Order (Western Union accepted) for $299.99 for a complete training course
 
Supra Vijai said:
Muawijhe - No you can't. I'm not planning on giving Mr. Kim Menkyo licences for my art, or Ronin ranks, or any Dan grades or even a membership. He can have a dvd though. Any certificate he issues will not be recognized by our umbrella corporation: SUPRACORP. That being said, if you really wanted to get a black belt with us, just send me a Money Order (Western Union accepted) for $299.99 for a complete training course
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I'm sorry, Supra, but as a dedicated employee of Omni Consumer Products, I've signed an NCC that prevents me from joining your organization. Nice try, though. ^.^
 
The Unholy Don Roley asked that someone post this from an off-topic discussion on Kumori Ryu Ninjutsu that came up over at MartialArtsPlanet.com.

Don Roley said:
Yes. Jon has said he will never train with a Bujinkan teacher due to the rudeness he received there. The thing is, it looks like he was here for at least a few weeks before he started posting there and never sought me or one of the other Bujinkan teachers in the area for training.

As I said, it looks like his excuses are nothing more than just that.

He will probably in the future say that he decided not to train with me due to my rudeness as well. The truth is, I contacted him and told him that what he posted on martialtalk convinced me to deny him ever training with me.

Seriously, if he can't take comments on a web site without gathering up his toys and going home, there is no way he can hack it in the training I have gotten or give.

Edit- and if someone can tell the guys are martialtalk that I rejected him as a student I will appreciate it. I will also show my....... appreciation to those that wanted to send him to me, preferably in a dark ally should I ever get the chance.:lowblow:
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Full link to the thread:
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1074395653
 
Himura Kenshin said:
I kinda miss Jon now that he's not posting. I never knew what he was gonna say next!
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Probably just more fake humility shortly followed by accusations of hostility and off-base characte judgment with a dose or two of ignorance of Ninjutsu sprinkled on top. A tasty desert, but one I will admit is not good for one's health if consumed in greatly quantity.

Edit: The link I provided above for the MAP discussion was incorrect. Please try this link:
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99128
 
No, Cryo, you didn't miss it. The only name provided was Allen Ennan, Shidoshi-ho, but never said who he was under himself.

The MAP thread is fun, interesting to know that he did actually contact Don... even before he came here (and when Don's name was mentioned, he made no indication of having any contact with him, let alone possibly asking about training, although that was exactly what we were wondering about!). One thing I find interesting is how Jon is now not going to ever have anything to do with the Bujinkan, after his "treatment" here... by myself (not Bujinkan, split a decade ago) and Bruno (Genbukan). Not sure how his connection works there.... but still, I don't think many Bujinkan instructors are too upset that he's not about to turn up to them?
 
Oh dear lords and ladies all....

Ronin7411 (Johnny) is on there? Here's his message:

Hey guys I meet Sensei Duvall on MartialTalk.com and he encouraged me to continue mastering the art of Ninjitsu despite what the contributors along with the moderators have been saying to me. He then invited me over to the site for any advice and if I ever was looking for information as well for my training. I hope that my incites help with anyone's training and best wishes go out to everyone and their training.
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And I note Jon is still using Uke incorrectly... in fact, his "Welcome" forum is called "Welcome Uke", and he insists on calling all practitioners "Uke". How on earth do these people think they're qualified to do anything like this? I really just don't get it....
 
Tanaka said:
I feel sorry for people who get con by them.
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I was thinking about that the other day. From a marketing standpoint, I think most intelligent people would know to shy away from them. I haven't met Jon, nor seen his operation, but it is my assumption (and purely that, and no disrespect to Jon for it) that it will not attract a lot of students, at least not those without (how shall I put this?) being of a similar mindset to Jon
 
Muawijhe said:
I was thinking about that the other day. From a marketing standpoint, I think most intelligent people would know to shy away from them. I haven't met Jon, nor seen his operation, but it is my assumption (and purely that, and no disrespect to Jon for it) that it will not attract a lot of students, at least not those without (how shall I put this?) being of a similar mindset to Jon
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Actually after a boredom stroke from being sick. I went over to MAP and saw "Jon" posting over there. He wrote a long letter apologizing to Mr. Parker, Bruno, and everyone else. And he said he joined a Bujinkan school and turned his dojo into a study group. It is kind of good to know that we aren't wasting time by guiding these people who have mislead concepts. I guess they can change.
 
I know this is a very difficult question to ask, and one that should possibly be its own thread, but I will ask anyway and hopefully get some assurance/advice or at least a better understanding as to why it exists.
I posted under the beginning martial arts section as to what was local and available as a martial art and one of the helpful responses was from Chris Parker. Their website and reading a few of his posts certainly piqued my interests in their particular discipline. In looking at a lot of threads both here and on MAP I am noticing that there is a lot of divisiveness. I know that it should be irrelevant and I intend to go to the school tomorrow to see what it is like in person but I am wondering if, outside of that school, there will always be this level of divisiveness amongst Ninjutsu practitioners? I guess some other arts like Wing Chun demonstrate a lack of unity at times but the Ninjutsu forums seem to have rather a lot of it.
This will not put me off visiting Chris and his school tomorrow evening (also forgive me for using the wrong terms where applicable, I'd expect that I will gain a more correct knowledge of wording, terms and culture as part of my education) and I will be keeping as open a mind as possible in my hunt for a school (and it helps they are terribly conveniently located)... I just wanted to air this general concern since reading a lot of threads here and on MAP and see what the reasons people could provide.
 
Chris Parker said:
Oh dear lords and ladies all....

Ronin7411 (Johnny) is on there? Here's his message:



And I note Jon is still using Uke incorrectly... in fact, his "Welcome" forum is called "Welcome Uke", and he insists on calling all practitioners "Uke". How on earth do these people think they're qualified to do anything like this? I really just don't get it....
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Was the 'incites' a Freudian slip? surely he offered insights not try to incite anyone.
 
perceive said:
I know this is a very difficult question to ask, and one that should possibly be its own thread, but I will ask anyway and hopefully get some assurance/advice or at least a better understanding as to why it exists.
I posted under the beginning martial arts section as to what was local and available as a martial art and one of the helpful responses was from Chris Parker. Their website and reading a few of his posts certainly piqued my interests in their particular discipline. In looking at a lot of threads both here and on MAP I am noticing that there is a lot of divisiveness. I know that it should be irrelevant and I intend to go to the school tomorrow to see what it is like in person but I am wondering if, outside of that school, there will always be this level of divisiveness amongst Ninjutsu practitioners? I guess some other arts like Wing Chun demonstrate a lack of unity at times but the Ninjutsu forums seem to have rather a lot of it.
This will not put me off visiting Chris and his school tomorrow evening (also forgive me for using the wrong terms where applicable, I'd expect that I will gain a more correct knowledge of wording, terms and culture as part of my education) and I will be keeping as open a mind as possible in my hunt for a school (and it helps they are terribly conveniently located)... I just wanted to air this general concern since reading a lot of threads here and on MAP and see what the reasons people could provide.
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Hello.

The answer to your question is both yes and no. Allow me to explain :)
There are various organizations still teaching actual ninjutsu. They are Genbukan, bujinka and Jinenkan, as well as various organizations that split off under leadership of an experienced practicioner. Chris' organization is one of those.
It is a very interesting discipline, but it takes a long time to get good at it. And contrary to what hollywood wants you to believe, it is mainly a lot of hard training things that can appear boring. Basics usually are that way.

Between those organizations, there is very little bad blood. There is some politics, but we all all respect each other. The key is that we are all practicing arts that were ultimately passed down through Takamatsu Toshi tsugu. Those are the only lineages still sruviving today for which we have reason to believe they are real.

Now, there is also a lot of animosity towards various groups like Kumori ryu ninjutsu because they see a couple of ninja movies, combine some karate, judo and perhaps some aikido or 1 or 2 years in a legit organization, and then they form their own organization, running around in the forest in dark suits, throwing shuriken etc.

We really don't like them. They grab an image that makes them look cool and leech it without caring about accuracy, or the fact that they make our art look ridiculous. It has gotten to the point where most people don't say what it is they practice to outsiders because we want to avoid coming across as a bunch of hollywood idiots.
 
Hey guys... Alright.. Here ya go....
Please.. lets do this civilly.. and before you read this..
Please note that I mean what I say!

Dear Chris, Cryo, Bruno, Bob, the list goes on.....

Ive had to take some time off to think, and then respond. I want to apologize for my actions, by that I mean not taking the time to sit and properly write out my goals, my thoughts and my intentions. for that I am sorry!! Chris... lol

I have read and read and re-read everything, I want to thank all of you for putting a few things into perspective!! First, I have been to quick to blame the Bujinkan organization for the actions and words of a few, I am not referring to MT individuals here, this is due to people in the Bujinkan I know personally so do not confuse that fact, I am in no way blaming any MT poster for my departure, However, I did prior to moving to colorado and proir to my departure, contact several Dojo and apparently Don roleys group was one that I had contacted, I have since forgot his name and was unfamiliar with his name when members brought him to my attention in recent posts I.E. "The unholey", I did receive a statement from him, in wich he stated that I was unable to train with him due to my disclosures and actions on this forum, That is fine!! I appreciate his input and his time, Now. I want it to be known, Even though Don and I have had our differences, I greatly appreciate his "wake up call" as I have called it. I have asked him to not contact me, but in time I would like to open a friendly dialog and inform him that he has made me think ALOT!... I want him to know I have no aggression or animosity toward him... Im sure he will find out one way or another... I know you guys are all tight.... He seems like a nice, well informed, honest guy...

There is a few things that he did state that got me thinking, after much prayer and a solid look at myself and my students, I have made a few decisions... First after reviewing the BSNS site I do see a few flaws in there approach to Ninjutsu, there is no denying that! I have removed my links to them and have had no luck in obtaining a response from them concerning my affiliation... I have also seen that there are a few others that have seen their site and also see the same discrepancies I.E. Koga affiliations, ect... I want it to be known that I am not looking to the BSNS for validation....When I had no where to find accreditation for my training I joined the I.M.F and did so because I respect Mr. Shook for his dedication to helping martial artists as well as there help in creating Rank certificates for my Dojo...

Now onto my Dojo... I can see how I upset a few serious practitioners with a few errors like the use of Ninjutsu, Ro-nin Rank, ect.... I want to make it known that I started out as a "study group" to continue training after my sensei had discontinued his classes, I did have one person join to learn "Naruto" ninjutsu lol, he obviously did not last long at all.. Once the replex had approached me to start a class in their facility, thats when I started to teach, I moved from a study group to a Dojo, I felt that without a curriculum the students would end up leaving or becoming uninterested in Ninjutsu, I talked with friends and family and had spent much time talking and thinking about the formation of a Ryu "Tradition". Basically I talked their and my wife's ears off! I have read that Founders of Ryu state that after several days of training and meditation that divine inspiration is the Key to forming a Ryu. I felt that I HAD been inspired. That was one the reasons I formed the Kumori.

Also please keep in mind that I am from an area where there is very little to be found in the area of ninjutsu. Also some of the shodon under Hiken dojo, I had been training just as long as them but, our sensei did not train through the winter so that put serious blocks in our training and our advancement. So in lue of this the lead student and I continued through the winters and came back to Allen in the spring, It was like starting all over again with him. He would drink coffee and we would start with ukemigata. (FACEPALM) lol.... Once he stopped teaching all together, at the time, I had no car! This obviously posed a problem in the continuing of my LEARNING, as I had contacted a few of Hiken Dojo Shidoshi Kai holders with little luck in ever being able to connect and train...

So after moving on, I had talked to my dojos lead student and friend about my Idea of starting a Dojo. He was not to into the idea, He was never wanting to teach however. Keep in mind his training was only inclusive of our Sensei Allan then he started making trips to Shidoshi Rick's to continue his training, Im afraid I did not have that luxury as I was working from home and had obligations on the nights that the Hiken Dojo trained... I also spoke to (well tried to speak with, but received no responses for some time) to Sensei Allen about my Intentions with my Ryu Idea, He is not very personable as it seemed to me. So thinking back to his and I's informal discussion (one day after training) about my desires to teach what I had learned from him, and thinking back to his statement "any one can teach but they can not rank bujinkan with out the proper credentials", I went forward with my Ryu idea. .. The students of the replex and my personal friends encouraged me and showed no distaste for my intentions. I went outside of the Bujinkan for rank and title..
I want it to be known, at the time I was not a member of any forum or any other Martial arts advise group... So to be frank, I did this NOT to boost my ego or to make up a lineage, but instead to share what I know in a fashion that was acceptable to the facility that had entrusted me with the training of their young ones and friends in ninjutsu,

My future Intentions... I have stepped aside from teaching to begin training again with a new Dojo. They are Bujinkan. (I know I know) but, I was 100% honest about my back ground and my intentions. The Shidoshi has welcomed me to train, in fact I start tonight. My desires are to start from scratch I.E. rank-less, so that I can develop the skills that this dojo has established. I don't feel the need to take my certificates to them an state that I want to start here at 6th kyu. To be most honest when I approached my prior sensei about the finalizing of my dues he simply responded, Send a check to me... I felt that to be a little unnerving having no ability to contact him for some time and to then simply get a response of send me your money. Now, I know that its rightful to pay him and when I have the ability I feel its right to do so. However, I am now in a location where there are many good training options, which before there were very few, I also have a great car, thanks to my great friend and fellow martial artist. HES THE MAN!!!! lol... and I have a great opportunity to join a Dojo that has welcomed me, I will give them my 100%. Let it be known that I am going to them as an open minded, open hearted and title-less student... I again want to thank the Bujinkan practitioners that have shown me that its not about title, status or affiliation but instead about having the right heart the right mind and most importantly the right attitude!

It has taken me like 2 hours to right this as I am not the most fluent in typing... lol

SO. to recap....

I am sorry,
I am going to change TODAY!!
I am not a teacher from now and until I receive the title from a recognized Ninjutsu organization.
I do intend on directing and keeping my site and group open but there will be changes made...
I.E. Kumori Ryu Ninjustu will be an Official "Study Group"
I will make Chris happy and not call anyone Uke.. lol just funnin ya chris.
I will be here to help in any way.
I will be here to listen to thoughts and those that are nice enough to give sound advise
I will be Humble
I will show respect
I thank you now and will always thank you!

BTW I know your dying to know...
Its the Kashiwa Bujinkan and Mr. Garner is an excellent individual!!
We had a good 20 to 30 min talk about all of this!!!
Also, if you have an opinion on the school lets please keep it civil, I respect them VERY MUCH!

Take care, and please, If you have a honest question PM me...
 
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