Excellent posts everyone...
I appreciate everyone's input and look forward to reading more...
As for my school, credentials, teachers, Ect.. Im not here to discuss that in this post.. Im simply starting a discussion that I'm interested in... Ive found that there are many who love Ninjutsu and Many that love there own school and not the teachings of others that's fine.. Im not going to get involved with throwing around my opinion about your schools or your lineage..
As for me continuing learning from instructors, I am. I never said that Ive quit learning.. So please I insist that we keep to the topic at hand and part from starting another argument about "What is Ninjutsu"..
Thank you
You understand, of course, that when you start a discussion of Ninjutsu then your understanding of what Ninjutsu is will come into it? And if you don't have a real understanding of what it is in the first place, then the discussion will need to clarify that in the first place. But, as you insist, what exactly is the topic you presented? Let's look at your OP:
Hello,
Ive had my ins and outs on this site... Im here to find the opinions of others on a matter that has concerned me for a while since joining this forum... If we as Ninjutsu Practitioners are to claim that we study an art based on the idea of perseverance in the world that we are born into, is it not ideal to help accept all who strive to learn and grow in an art that is for the common good of all men and women..
Simply put, Ive been taught by my instructors that the best method of defense is to simply refuse to fight until it is the final answer...
I find that Ninjutsu is an art that "Fights" within itself...What do you think we can do as Practitioners to let go of animosity and learn to accept others for the good intentions that they hold... Are we not all of the same earth? Are we not all of the same God? I ask you to please let go of your hate or disrespect and help to bring others into this art with out ridicule or a superior mind set...I have always taught my students to listen to those willing to teach and to approach all martial arts with an open mind. I have great pride in my students for there willingness to learn with out judgment...
Please let go of your differences and join together as Martial Artists...
Your thoughts are welcome!!
You start off by implying problems with the people here, mainly due to the fact that we corrected you. You also seem to imply that, as we didn't immediately give you big pats on the back and "atta-boys" for starting your own "ryu" and teaming up with someone like "Ninja Bob" (I'll get to this.... you may want to reconsider things afterwards) that there are issues with Ninjutsu being accepted. Not if it actually is Ninjutsu, would be the point there.
You then show a lack of understanding of the name itself, taking a purely literal translation without understanding the context of the term, and dress it up in an unrealistic idealism. You then continue to claim that Ninjutsu fights within itself.... which everyone else has said is not the case, the legitimate, authentic Ninjutsu community is rather sick of people misappropriating their name as a marketing tool with no basis whatsoever, dragging the reputation of the art further and further down. Again, it comes down to if it actually is Ninjutsu or not.
You then end with a rather odd "are we not all of the same Earth? Are we not all of the same God?" (er, no we're not, actually. You may want to bring that aspect of reality into your thinking, by the way....) peace-on-earth, complete tolerance of everything no matter how much it harms what you love ideal. This does not work at all, so no.
You say that you have always taught your students (?) to listen to those willing to teach.... so why did you almost immediately start saying you would ignore anything I said, especially when what I was doing more than anything else was educating and correcting you?
But really, you have presented an unrealistic ideal, which really doesn't invite any conversation or discussion other than explainations as to why we don't just accept anyone in black hoods and pajamas swinging nunchuks and calling themselves "ninja"... so I'm not sure what you think this discussion was meant to be.
Bujingodai,
No sir Im not terribly old, lol 27 to be honest, I was a 3 yr student before I accepted my Student Brad.. He was my first Real student of the Ryu... Him and I worked together to refine his skill and work towards taking over the Illinois chapter of the Ryu...
As for the Black Scorpion Society, I was interested in there motives as a Ninjutsu Group.. They have the intent on unifying all martial artists and ninjutsu.. I appreciate where they stand and I admire Bobby Calvert for his efforts in the martial arts world... Ive found that any society that is accepting of all, is a society that I want to be a part of... There are groups that select and choose there students to keep a certain level of seclusion in there Dojo and Im perfectly fine with that, However when students and or teachers of another group start to tear other Dojo and schools apart it creates a wall between us that once built is very hard to knock down.. Ive found a federation to join that feels the same way I do about martial arts and Ninjutsu, and for that I am very grateful, I hope that this thread can allow people to stand up for what they believe is good and pure in intent, I understand the "true" Ninjutsu practitioners (I.E. x-kans) are very skeptical about those that have broken away or have started a training group to honor the Ninja spirit, However I hope that they see that it can come across as a condescending attitude towards those that are simply looking for a fun and entertaining way to stay in shape and learn great defensive skills..
Im very sure that Chris, Bruno and the others in hand are very good at what they do and I respect them for giving there opinoins, Infact I have learned a few things and have corrected a few of my mistakes based on there posts. BUT, I do not appreciate the tone in wich some have delivered their opinion of others...
I try to be open minded and accept others in the arts, I Hope that one day these posts can be viewed as the stepping stones to acceptance of all that love Ninjutsu!!!
Thank you and good luck to you all.... That means you too Mr. Parker!! lol
Okay, I'm going to be blunt. The Black Scorpion group are ridiculous. The ideals that you like are not present in reality, as the rules for the legit organisations don't allow them to be a part of it.... not that many would want to. There is no benefit whatsoever of being a part of this group. They have nothing even close to legit training (seriously, the number of huge issues with the photos pages alone were scary!), and are far from "good and pure in intent". They are what is refered to as "LARPers", which is Live Action Role Players... basically kids playing dress-ups. They say that they accept everyone as they have nothing really to offer themselves, and it's a way to get an ego boost. In order to grow as a practitioner, get a real teacher.
Oh don't worry yourself Bruno@MT
I have officially left the Bujinkan for good...
I still read and seek out the teachings however...
I am not looking to receive any rank or certification from the Bujinkan whatsoever.
Im not interested in rank only experience!!
Thank you for your posts!
Reading and videos are not training or learning without a teacher to clarify what you are going through. And if you are interested in experience, then get some. And that means getting a real teacher (again) and taking the time to learn and train properly. Without that, you have no experience to gain.
Point well taken,
In my small community where I lived there was no Ninjutsu Dojo around I traveled to Champaign every weekend to train and learn... Then after class continued to train and learn from the lead student Ben. When My Sensei Allan Quit training I had asked him about teaching, He stated anyone can teach but only shodan and higher can rank Bujinkan, Im sorry that I am not to your standards of Ninjutsu, However I was open and honest to my Sensei about my intent and there was no conflict... At that time I decided to venture into my own studies and create the Kumori Ryu, I did this to help spread an art in an area where there was nothing of the like... Now there is a school dedicated to helping others put there foot into the door and study ninjutsu... Ive told my students that they can join any other school or organization if they wish, but they stick with me... Ive dedicated my life to helping them learn and grow as martial artists.. Oh and Don't worry Im not offended.. Nor will I be over matters such as this.. I know my capabilities and my students know what we are capable of as a family..
Thank you for your posts
Take care and the best of luck to you sir!!!
In the Bujinkan, only a 5th Dan and higher (with a Shidoshi licence) can teach and rank. Someone Shodan - 4th Dan can be a Shidoshi-ho (junior instructor) under the guidance of a Shidoshi (which is why Cryo asked who the Shidoshi that was guiding Allen was), so it sounds like Allen was either unsure or incorrect in his statements there as well. And it's got nothing to do with you not making "our standard" for Ninjutsu, it's more that you show again and again that your knowledge and understanding is very lacking, to say the least, which is, more than anything else, a reflection of your minimalist experience.
But to take it another way, can you tell us about Kumori Ryu? What makes it a Ryu? What are the base concepts? What is the structure like? What are the mechanics like? What differentiates it from the Bujinkan or Toshindo? If you can't answer these, it is no Ryu, you have not founded anything other than a training group that you have called a Ryu... and a training group, under the guidance of an instructor, is something we would absolutely support. So I'd personally be far more supportive of you saying that you were running a training group for Toshindo under your current instructor (you did say you were still training in Toshindo, yeah?), the creation of a Ryu is frankly ridiculous.
I have 8years in my system, Chris said he had 12+ (I think?), others have more. I have just scratched the surface of martial arts and would never dream of creating my own system and saying it was on par of those who came before. Let me master the training my art offers me now and then we will see.
And just to clarify, I had been training for over 12 years before I started teaching regularly. I've now been training for coming up to 18 years, with a few years of Karate and Tae-Kwon Do before that, and a number of other arts during as well.
That does bring me to another point, though.
Jon, I've alluded to any problems you may have interpretting the way things are written on the screen, and I notice that you have been "Thanking" a number of posts that are basically telling you that what you are doing is far from ideal, or even advised. SteveBJJ actually pointed out that if someone had come along to the BJJ forum and made similar claims, they would have been ripped to pieces. You thanked him for that. I pointed out that I trained for well over a decade before starting to teach, as opposed to your couple of years (a fair bit of which without your instructor, if I'm reading your posts correctly) and low rank, and you thanked me. That pattern is rather prevalent, so again I'm going to ask if there is anything that we should know about that would help us communicate with you better. You seem to be misinterpretting things a fair bit, and seeing things that no-one else is (other than Ronin7411 who just doesn't like the fact that we pointed out the lack of credibility in his approach, amongst other things).
