New member with questions need advice

[Kframe]

Hi, I also post at the survivalist forums under this same name if it looks familiar to anyone. I am on a journey to reshape my life, i started this path at 388lbs and have lost 60lbs so far with much more to go. I am trying to give up the the the things that led me here and add things that are important. One of those things is protecting my family. I am fairly skilled with a fire arm, but no skill with my self unarmed. So as part of my path twords fitness and self defense im wanting to take a martial art.

I have gotten much help from my friends at the survivalist forums but wanted to come here to discuss this as well seeing as martial arts is the main vibe here. I have been looking and researching all the martial arts in my area and have concluded that most are a just black belt factories. I have identified a few that are considered worthy and well respected.

The traditional schools im looking at are as follows
1. http://fortwaynetangsoodo.com/ = this is a Tang so do art
2 http://allstarmartialartsfortwayne.com/ This is Tae Kwon DO
3. http://www.bowleskarate.com/ THis is Shori ryu(i think)

Now im looking at these 2 Modern schools. MMA
1. http://teamelitemma.com/ This school teaches amongst other things mainly Kick boxing, boxing and Ju jitsu, as well as a cardio class.
2.http://hollywood-mma.com/ This one has a lot of stuff there, tkd, muay thai, greco roman , judu, ju jitsu.

My orginal plan was to do a traditional art, and was leaning twords doing either Tang so do or Traditional Tae Kwon do. My father does Traditional tkd and has used it several times for self defense sucsessfully. I kind of wanted to be like my father.

Now i know that the fact that the mma schools are on there is kinda odd, but i have a good reason. I have been doing as much research as i can, not wanting to make a mistake. I have seen numerous you tube videos of tma guys getting whooped on by mma guys that i have to question the tma's all together. I wish i hadnt watched them or read as much as i did, becuase i was really set on doing eith TSD or TKD.

I have also read several places that modern TKD is no longer focus on self defense and should not be considered for it.

My friends on the other forum pointed me twords more reality systems, but there were none with in 2 hours of my area. Then a few of them suggested MMA which i looked into, never having givin it much serious thought before and went and visited the first place on my Mma list(Team Elite). I explained to him what i was after and my concerns and he listend and we had a good conversation. He explained his 20 years experiance in TKD and then branching out to the other MA's to make his style of MMA. He explained to me the pros and cons of the tma's and why he thought his system was more real. He pointed out that TKD was good at range, but fell short at very close range and had little to no ground skills are taught. I asked him about the blocks and deflections in the traditional arts and he explained his reason for not liking them. He said he watched a guy use a block on a incoming kick and then watched as the guys arm broke. Needless to say, having heard that i did not want to make a mistake join a art that would take years to learn to use effectively even if it was limited. I need something real, something that i can begine to use sooner rather then later.

Besides even if i do a mma style, it would be a good foundation for any art i learn in the future.

Im not trying to bash the tma,s, im hear to ask questions and get the other side and maybe some valuable information to help me make my decision. So to that end i have some questions.

Why do traditional arts use kata? I have watched my dads Forms and some of the shorin ryu forms(I did shorin ryu, matsubiashi i think, for 2.5months but lost my job and had to quit, this was 6 years ago) and i see the punching and kicking that are present in the kata/forms/poomse but the other moves in it i dont recognize. I know that TKD has alot of kicks and punches, but i do know(via my search on the youtube for tkd demos) that there are a few throws/takedowns in it as well. I just dont recognize the other moves in the kata/forms. This goes for shorin ryu as well. I saw the kicks and punches, and maybe a hiptoss, but the rest of the stuff in it made no sense at all. I just didnt recognize any of the non punching stuff. Part of that reason is when i was at the shorin ryu place, i was there and not once got a explanation of the forms and kata they were doing. I was there 2.5months and i showed up and did stretching and calisthentics and then we did punching and blocking drills. Then that was it. We would occasionaly do some self defense related thing, like dealing with grabs and what not but other then that i was never even taught the kata. Nor did i get any explanations of wtf they were doing.

I just want to learn a real viable self defense art, and feel that going the mma route is my only option. I see that each of the tma have such a limited scope. TKD/TSD are good at stand up striking from a distance but not so much upclose and on the ground. Again using them as a example seeing as one of those 2 are what i wanted to do.

So please any information you can give me id be greatful for. Maybe you can save me money and change my mind. Mabye you have some information that i have over looked that can help me make a better decision. I am willing to put in the time to learn, at this point I dont care what, as long as it is real and viable and ill learn self defense techniques i can use sooner rather then later.

I keep seeing tma guys getting anihilated in the cage fights. I think that if it wont work in the cage, why would it work on the street? Any thoughts on this.

Id love to have another reason to go back and look at the tma's for my training. So please educate me and help me to make the right decison. Please help me with some valuable information i may be missing.

Thanks for reading my long post, but i needed to talk to the experts before i start paying money. I am pretty sure on the MMA thing but am willing(and kind of hoping) for a second look at the TMA"s.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Really depends on what you want out of it. If you are looking strictly for self defense, go to the schools and watch classes. Also, educate yourself about self defense itself; it goes far beyond the physical skills, and in all honesty, neither TMA nor MMA are going to really be geared towards practical SD, though it will likely be a part of some schools curricula.

If you want an art that will enhance your lifestyle, give you some nice physical skills, and some self defense, MMA is nice from what I can tell. TMA is so broad a category that it is kind of hard to comment on in generalizations.

Taekwondo at most schools will center on pumse (forms) and sparring. If it is a WTF school, the sparring will be highly specialized. Some TKD schools have a practical SD curriculum, others do not. Be sure to ask.

I train in hapkido which is a hybrid art, so I get a plethora of strikes plus a ton of joint locks, throws, and escapes and holds. Along with that, I get the 'traditional' atmosphere.

I also train in kumdo, which is a weapon art.

But all three are TMA.

Not in a position to advise you regarding the specific schools aside from that you should visit them and see what they are offering, talk to the instructors, and watch a few classes. Pick the one that seems to be the best fit for you.

But as always, be wary of the contract. Don't let the school push you into signing up. If the close is too aggressive, say thanks but no thanks.

Best wishes to you!

Daniel

 

[Balrog]

I am on a journey to reshape my life, i started this path at 388lbs and have lost 60lbs so far with much more to go.

High five, dude. Keep up the good work!

I just want to learn a real viable self defense art, and feel that going the mma route is my only option.

It's not. I advocate learning a striking art, such as TKD, and earning at least First Degree Black Belt in it. After that, continue training in your base art and branch out to cross train in a grappling art. This will give you a well-rounded m. a. education.

Suggestion: visit all of the schools, talk with the instructors and students, do intro lessons at each one, and make an informed decision as to which one is going to fulfill you both physically and mentally. Then have at it. Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[K-man]

Check out some of the threads on 'traditional' martial arts. Martial arts that are predominantly sport oriented are not, IMHO, traditional. Japanese karate and tkd are in that category. If you look at some of the Okinawan systems of karate such as Goju Ryu, Ueichi Ryu or Shorin Ryu or Chinese based systems such as Kung Fu or Kenpo, you may find that they are more suited to self defence. Other than those, Systema and Krav Maga are full on SD styles.

 

[kravi]

Echoing what some of the others said already. Just remember that MMA is a sport, not a self defense concept. It's an awesome sport (which I love), but it has sport rules and what it teaches caters to those rules.

Granted, while it can be argued that many TMAs are rooted in self-defense, they've gone through multiple generations of teachers who have never fought in anger or fear and are, to be honest, probably no more likely to be "self defense" arts than MMA, regardless of what the teacher, who has probably never been jumped, from behind, at a distance of 6 inches, in his/her life.

Then there is krav maga, which many people purport to be a "self defense art". As an Israeli, let me tell you, it isn't. It was really created, if you ignore the hype and mystique, to teach a bunch of nice Jewish farm boys how to be hyper-aggressive killers, kinda like the marines with their baton stick thingies. Not saying it isn't good and isn't practical, but, again, its up to the teacher, and most, like in MMA and TMA, don't know what from self defense.

So get fit, learn how to hit, and if you're lucky you'll find a teacher who really has been in the sharp end multiple times and has learned from it. My advice.

--Me

P.S. Dear forum members, please don't flame me for this, Just trying to lay it out.

 

[Kframe]

Really depends on what you want out of it. If you are looking strictly for self defense, go to the schools and watch classes. Also, educate yourself about self defense itself; it goes far beyond the physical skills, and in all honesty, neither TMA nor MMA are going to really be geared towards practical SD, though it will likely be a part of some schools curricula.


Daniel

Daniel may i ask what do you mean when you say that TMA are not going to be geared towards practicle sd? Obviously they all teach how to punch and kick and various take down/throws and such. I gather it has something to do with mindset. Its up to you to be aware of your surroundings and up to you to keep a aware of the shadey people in life and its up to you to apply the things you haver learned. Am I close?

I know that mma normaly trains with in the rules but honestly the things that are out side the rules, imho arnt that hard to remember to do in a real self defense situation. Eye gouge, kicking them in the chest/head when there on the ground, kicks to the front part of the knee, and biting(have done this in one of my 2 self defense fights i have been in, i got jumped by 3 guys at boy scout camp). When it comes to training out side the gym, i have a couple people willing to train with me. My dad and my friends from work, both of whome are exerianced streetfighters.

The reason im considering mma is becuase i want to lay a foundation for any future training i do. Im not fit enough to do the fancy kicks and spins and such of tsd/tkd and so i want to focus on the grappling and the boxing and some simple kicks that i know i can do now.( for a fatman im amazingly flexible.) Of course the full contact sparring will also be a advantage, imho in that ill be better able to take a hit. Again that is just my opinion.

Ill keep searching for information regarding the tma. As i said, there maybe information im not seeing and over looking. Maybe its not the art at all and the fighter behind it? Maybe its up to me to be effective at self defense, then the style of the art. I have a lot to think about, and want to think it all through.

 

[rlobrecht]

Congratulations on your efforts so far. Keep it up. I started martial arts with my kid, and had to start jogging to get into good enough shape to make it through a class.

I agree with Balrog, you'll want skills in striking and grappling. You could get both if you found a hapkido school, or something like that.

If you really just want self defense, I've heard good things about Krav Maga.

Good luck,
Rick

 

[yak sao]

I think it's fantastic that you are wanting to reshape your life and get in shape, and MA are definitely something that will do just that.
I understand that you want to follow in your dad's footsteps, but at your current size TKD may not be the best option, either practically or for health reasons ( too much high impact on the joints)

Western Boxing would be a good option and it would also be good conditioning. Add to that judo. After some time in these arts I guarantee you will be a force to be reckoned with. Then after you've dropped some weight, you could check into some of the other arts you mentioned.


ps.....as a dad myself, I'm sure that you making these changes makes him proud

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Daniel may i ask what do you mean when you say that TMA are not going to be geared towards practicle sd? Obviously they all teach how to punch and kick and various take down/throws and such. I gather it has something to do with mindset. Its up to you to be aware of your surroundings and up to you to keep a aware of the shadey people in life and its up to you to apply the things you haver learned. Am I close?

I know that mma normaly trains with in the rules but honestly the things that are out side the rules, imho arnt that hard to remember to do in a real self defense situation. Eye gouge, kicking them in the chest/head when there on the ground, kicks to the front part of the knee, and biting(have done this in one of my 2 self defense fights i have been in, i got jumped by 3 guys at boy scout camp). When it comes to training out side the gym, i have a couple people willing to train with me. My dad and my friends from work, both of whome are exerianced streetfighters.

The reason im considering mma is becuase i want to lay a foundation for any future training i do. Im not fit enough to do the fancy kicks and spins and such of tsd/tkd and so i want to focus on the grappling and the boxing and some simple kicks that i know i can do now.( for a fatman im amazingly flexible.) Of course the full contact sparring will also be a advantage, imho in that ill be better able to take a hit. Again that is just my opinion.

Ill keep searching for information regarding the tma. As i said, there maybe information im not seeing and over looking. Maybe its not the art at all and the fighter behind it? Maybe its up to me to be effective at self defense, then the style of the art. I have a lot to think about, and want to think it all through.

Actually, I said neither TMA nor MMA. TMA and MMA can give you some, or perhaps all (depending upon which TMA you're talking about ) of the physical skills needed for practical self defense. But the primary focus of traditional martial arts is the development of the student in many areas, not just self defense. Also, if you simply want to learn to defend yourself and nothing more, TMA and MMA will take you a much longer time to get to the point of having the necessary skills than will, say a purpose built SD class.

The primary difference between purpose built SD classes and practicing a martial art is that in the long run, you will get way more out of a martial art or MMA. Many MA programs have a practical SD aspect built into them that deal with a myriad of SD issues that are outside of physical training.

Many traditional martial arts have aspects outside of the physical training aspect, but usually, these are not the sort of things that a purpose built SD class will offer. To a certain extent, they don't need to have such aspects; many of the things addressed in practical SD classes end up being addressed in an MA class, but they are addressed in a different and often more subtle way.

One example is posture. A practical SD class will tell you how to carry yourself so that you don't appear to be a victim waiting for an attacker. Some people need this lesson right away. But if you train in a martial art for more than a year, this will take care of itself. Same goes for awareness. If you train for a long period of time (over a year), you tend to be more aware as a result.

Lastly, continued practice and rigourous training over a period of years will produce a more capable defender than a six week self defense course.

The SD course will get you practical skills more quickly than an MA class will; six weeks of Taekwondo will be a kibon pumse of some kind, front kicks, roundhouse kicks, side kicks, axe kicks, and reverse punches, low blocks, high blocks, mid level body blocks, and etiquette. All drilled repetitively. Maybe some no contact one steps.

Six weeks of a self defense course will get you a ton of information, tell you how to carry yourself, be aware, and how to handle the things that you are most likely to encounter, which will include armed and unarmed opponents. You will learn a small group of gross motor skill techniques designed to be easy to rememeber, and you'll probably get hands on training with a resisting opponent at some point in the class.

Six weeks in in a TKD class, you won't even get to where you're contact sparring.

However, after four years, the taekwondoist has practiced a greater variety of strikes and blocks regularly, has been doing hard contact sparring with resisting opponents for at least three years and six months, has been drilled to death on timing and distance, and will have an innate sense of reading the opponent's intentions. They will probably, by that point, have had a greater level of regularly trained in defenses against multiple opponents and armed opponents. Probably not four years worth, but certainly more than six weeks. The taekwondoist will also be carrying themselves like what they are: a trained fighter. And it isn't a posture that they'll need to affect; it's in them. Its who and what they are.

You can substitute any other TMA for taekwondo. You can substitute MMA for taekwondo and simply take out the comments about forms and one steps. Chances are, you won't get knife defenses in MMA (I'll let an MMA-ist comment on that one) but a skilled MMA-ist with no knife fighting in his or her training will have the tools and skills to stay well away from a mugger brandishing a knife to intimidate them. A person who is truly skilled with a knife who fully intends to kill you will not brandish the knife anyway, so being able to maintain a distance from people and be aware of your surroundings (TMA and MMA will both get you there) will still be your best defense.

If you want a class that has an immediate and prevalent self defense focus, traditional martial arts and MMA are generally not going to have that. But over a longer period of time, they will produce a much more capable practitioner.

That is what I mean.

Daniel

 

[Kframe]

Actually, I said neither TMA nor MMA. TMA and MMA can give you some, or perhaps all (depending upon which TMA you're talking about ) of the physical skills needed for practical self defense. But the primary focus of traditional martial arts is the development of the student in many areas, not just self defense. Also, if you simply want to learn to defend yourself and nothing more, TMA and MMA will take you a much longer time to get to the point of having the necessary skills than will, say a purpose built SD class.

The primary difference between purpose built SD classes and practicing a martial art is that in the long run, you will get way more out of a martial art or MMA. Many MA programs have a practical SD aspect built into them that deal with a myriad of SD issues that are outside of physical training.

Many traditional martial arts have aspects outside of the physical training aspect, but usually, these are not the sort of things that a purpose built SD class will offer. To a certain extent, they don't need to have such aspects; many of the things addressed in practical SD classes end up being addressed in an MA class, but they are addressed in a different and often more subtle way.

One example is posture. A practical SD class will tell you how to carry yourself so that you don't appear to be a victim waiting for an attacker. Some people need this lesson right away. But if you train in a martial art for more than a year, this will take care of itself. Same goes for awareness. If you train for a long period of time (over a year), you tend to be more aware as a result.

Lastly, continued practice and rigourous training over a period of years will produce a more capable defender than a six week self defense course.

The SD course will get you practical skills more quickly than an MA class will; six weeks of Taekwondo will be a kibon pumse of some kind, front kicks, roundhouse kicks, side kicks, axe kicks, and reverse punches, low blocks, high blocks, mid level body blocks, and etiquette. All drilled repetitively. Maybe some no contact one steps.

Six weeks of a self defense course will get you a ton of information, tell you how to carry yourself, be aware, and how to handle the things that you are most likely to encounter, which will include armed and unarmed opponents. You will learn a small group of gross motor skill techniques designed to be easy to rememeber, and you'll probably get hands on training with a resisting opponent at some point in the class.

Six weeks in in a TKD class, you won't even get to where you're contact sparring.

However, after four years, the taekwondoist has practiced a greater variety of strikes and blocks regularly, has been doing hard contact sparring with resisting opponents for at least three years and six months, has been drilled to death on timing and distance, and will have an innate sense of reading the opponent's intentions. They will probably, by that point, have had a greater level of regularly trained in defenses against multiple opponents and armed opponents. Probably not four years worth, but certainly more than six weeks. The taekwondoist will also be carrying themselves like what they are: a trained fighter. And it isn't a posture that they'll need to affect; it's in them. Its who and what they are.

You can substitute any other TMA for taekwondo. You can substitute MMA for taekwondo and simply take out the comments about forms and one steps. Chances are, you won't get knife defenses in MMA (I'll let an MMA-ist comment on that one) but a skilled MMA-ist with no knife fighting in his or her training will have the tools and skills to stay well away from a mugger brandishing a knife to intimidate them. A person who is truly skilled with a knife who fully intends to kill you will not brandish the knife anyway, so being able to maintain a distance from people and be aware of your surroundings (TMA and MMA will both get you there) will still be your best defense.

If you want a class that has an immediate and prevalent self defense focus, traditional martial arts and MMA are generally not going to have that. But over a longer period of time, they will produce a much more capable practitioner.

That is what I mean.

Daniel

Thank you for explaining that to me. I know for a fact that i want to do TKD for a self defense art. But as was pointed out for health reasons and other stuff, im going to do the mma school that is closest to my house. He focuses on boxing and judo and ju jitsu and kick boxing. I think it would be right at the edge of what i can accomplish right now. I have been working out for the last 1.5 months very hard. I have been doing a simulated bike race on my stationary from a dvd called RealRides Raceday! It is a absolute butt whomping and it has been awesome. My endurance has been steadily increasing each week that goes by that i do my butt whomping regularly.

I have checked into the hapkido school near my home but it requires a lengthy contract and costs nearly $4000 ayear tuition. WHich is way out of my budget.

I do have a question about TKD, tho. Besides the punches and kicks, what else is trained in them that is part of the TKD curriculum? Any sweeps and throws and take down stuff? I ask becuase i have been searching but see little mention of it here and only demo videos on youtube demonstrating it. I take it they are something that isnt a big part of the kata is it but something that has to be taught seperately. I did ask him and he said there was and he would show me. Thought id ask here to as well.

I know the coach of the MMA gym thinks i would be wasting my time by doing 1 year in his gym then moving on to TKD. WHich i understand seeing as he is trying to sell his gym and make a long term student. Tho honestly ill let my gut decide in a year or so how i feel and were i go from there.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I do have a question about TKD, tho. Besides the punches and kicks, what else is trained in them that is part of the TKD curriculum? Any sweeps and throws and take down stuff? I ask becuase i have been searching but see little mention of it here and only demo videos on youtube demonstrating it. I take it they are something that isnt a big part of the kata is it but something that has to be taught seperately. I did ask him and he said there was and he would show me. Thought id ask here to as well.

Varies. And depends on which TKD. ITF taekwondo does have a curriculum that deals with grapples, but I am not sure how widely that it is actually taught. Also, I believe that you don't get to it until you are a fairly high colored belt (red or so from what I am told).

Kukkiwon schools will vary. Where I train, I was taught a lot of things along those lines, plus wrist locks, arm bars, and escapes from some grabs. My instructor, however, is also a hapkido instructor and at the time when I was starting with him, he had a fairly well developed HKD based SD curriculum worked into the TKD classes. He has since dropped that part of the TKD class, as he also teaches hapkido as a separate course of study.

I know the coach of the MMA gym thinks i would be wasting my time by doing 1 year in his gym then moving on to TKD. WHich i understand seeing as he is trying to sell his gym and make a long term student. Tho honestly ill let my gut decide in a year or so how i feel and were i go from there.

Train there for a year and see how you like it. You may want to stay with his program. Ultimately, do what is the best fit for you.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

Nearly everyone I know has gone to MMA after training in a TMA (or two), training MMA before doing a TMA will leave you with only a little knowledge and few techniques. You can get away with that if all you want to do is compete though I wouldn't bank on it personally though
Many TMA schools/clubs focus on the SD aspect of their style, I'd go for one that does.
If the instructors are teaching Bunkai with their katas/patterns chose them, it's invaluable for SD.

 

[Kframe]

Nearly everyone I know has gone to MMA after training in a TMA (or two), training MMA before doing a TMA will leave you with only a little knowledge and few techniques. You can get away with that if all you want to do is compete though I wouldn't bank on it personally though
Many TMA schools/clubs focus on the SD aspect of their style, I'd go for one that does.
If the instructors are teaching Bunkai with their katas/patterns chose them, it's invaluable for SD.

Tez3 I can see your point, mma is simpler then tma. All im looking for right now is simple. First and foremost help get in better shape, 2 learn the basics of fightings. Which to me include learning how to throw a proper punch at someone who is resisting. Learning how to throw a proper kick(granted any good tkd school will do this) that i currently capable of learning and doing. Lastly learn how to grapple on the ground. I feel that by going mma first ill get a legup on all of this. I feel that being able to spend a year or so in the mma place learning the simple basics may/will prepare me to take the other more traditional arts.

Say after a year im in alot better shape then i am now, and i also can throw good punches and have learnd to throw some good basic kicks w ith good technique. That i feel is a advantage if i go to a tkd school. Heck half the reason im looking at one of the mma schools is his long history with tkd. The instructor even said that after a year if i wanted to cross train, he would call the tkd school(he reccomended a school,http://allstarmartialartsfortwayne.com/ ) and work out a deal that would keep my costs down so im not paying full price at both schools.

I have a reason for wanting to do it this way, if it seams like im heck bent on it. My second real fight was a long time ago. Also took place at scout camp.(darn violent scouts lol) I dont remember the how or why the fight started but i remember the entire fight itself like it was yesterday. It started as a shoving match, then him grabbing me and trying to knock me offbalance. I remember being able to push him back a good distance and then i took my first/only ever punch for real at someone. It felt like i was trying to punch though liquid concrete, or some other thick goo. It connected with the side of his head near the fore head region. It did nothing, no effect what so ever. Heck i didnt even feel the impact as hard as i should have. I just felt like there was nothing there. Which is odd considering i was not small or weak at the time of this fight. I won the fight due to the attacker being 1/2 my size and i was able to pick him up and throw him a ways ending the fight.

I vividly remember that failed punch and the fact that i felt like i was trying to swing with lead weights on my arms while weilding feathers for weapons. I dont want to feel that again. I hope that better explains things alittle.

 

[Tez3]

Tez3 I can see your point, mma is simpler then tma. All im looking for right now is simple. First and foremost help get in better shape, 2 learn the basics of fightings. Which to me include learning how to throw a proper punch at someone who is resisting. Learning how to throw a proper kick(granted any good tkd school will do this) that i currently capable of learning and doing. Lastly learn how to grapple on the ground. I feel that by going mma first ill get a legup on all of this. I feel that being able to spend a year or so in the mma place learning the simple basics may/will prepare me to take the other more traditional arts.

Say after a year im in alot better shape then i am now, and i also can throw good punches and have learnd to throw some good basic kicks w ith good technique. That i feel is a advantage if i go to a tkd school. Heck half the reason im looking at one of the mma schools is his long history with tkd. The instructor even said that after a year if i wanted to cross train, he would call the tkd school(he reccomended a school,http://allstarmartialartsfortwayne.com/ ) and work out a deal that would keep my costs down so im not paying full price at both schools.

I have a reason for wanting to do it this way, if it seams like im heck bent on it. My second real fight was a long time ago. Also took place at scout camp.(darn violent scouts lol) I dont remember the how or why the fight started but i remember the entire fight itself like it was yesterday. It started as a shoving match, then him grabbing me and trying to knock me offbalance. I remember being able to push him back a good distance and then i took my first/only ever punch for real at someone. It felt like i was trying to punch though liquid concrete, or some other thick goo. It connected with the side of his head near the fore head region. It did nothing, no effect what so ever. Heck i didnt even feel the impact as hard as i should have. I just felt like there was nothing there. Which is odd considering i was not small or weak at the time of this fight. I won the fight due to the attacker being 1/2 my size and i was able to pick him up and throw him a ways ending the fight.

I vividly remember that failed punch and the fact that i felt like i was trying to swing with lead weights on my arms while weilding feathers for weapons. I dont want to feel that again. I hope that better explains things alittle.

I disagree that MMA is simpler than TMA, I've trained TMA for ten years and MMA for the ten years after that, they are both involved. MMA is what it says it is Mixed Martial Arts so in fact you have more to learn in MMA than TMA. My point is that MMA is simpler if you have a TMA behind you. MMA shouldn't be considered as the easier to learn cousin of TMA. Muay Thai might be a good alternative for the kicking and punching with a Judo or BJJ class for your ground work.
What will happen if you go to a TKD class after MMA is that they will change everything you have trained in MMA to conform to TKD standards. In MMA you have a lot of freedom to change, adapt or even miss out things that don't suit your body type but in TKD you will be expected to throw kicks precisely the way you are taught by their instructors. Nothing wrong with this but I think you will find yourself frustrated. Train TKD first, then you will have good basics to start training MMA in (a good many fighters I know are TKD BB) and then can adapt to suit yourself.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I disagree that MMA is simpler than TMA, I've trained TMA for ten years and MMA for the ten years after that, they are both involved. MMA is what it says it is Mixed Martial Arts so in fact you have more to learn in MMA than TMA. My point is that MMA is simpler if you have a TMA behind you. MMA shouldn't be considered as the easier to learn cousin of TMA. Muay Thai might be a good alternative for the kicking and punching with a Judo or BJJ class for your ground work.
What will happen if you go to a TKD class after MMA is that they will change everything you have trained in MMA to conform to TKD standards. In MMA you have a lot of freedom to change, adapt or even miss out things that don't suit your body type but in TKD you will be expected to throw kicks precisely the way you are taught by their instructors. Nothing wrong with this but I think you will find yourself frustrated. Train TKD first, then you will have good basics to start training MMA in (a good many fighters I know are TKD BB) and then can adapt to suit yourself.

Eloquently said!

Daniel

 

[Kframe]

Well as i said, im not settled in on one place yet. I Have to schedual free classes and make my final decision. I intend to take introductory classes at both mma gyms, the TSD dojo and the TKD dojo.

I worry about taking TKD first, becuase if i start with the mma, ill get to practice the ground stuff from the beggining. Were as if i do tkd first and wait how ever many years till i get first dan black belt ill have no grappling practice at all. I cant afford to take multiple schools at once. I have budgeted to allow my self to take only one school.

Tez3, question if i may. Say i took your advice and took tkd first. 1. Going from a rigid art with rigid stances to a fluid and flexible one. How much will translate over well? 2. TKD schools (atleast the ones i have seen) focus almost exclusively during class on kicking, what about the punches??

I also wanted to throw this out there. Im almost 30 now, my bday is in 3 months. I am a late starter to this martial arts thing. I dont have much time left before my age starts to limit me. I dont want to be 40 and only just then becoming proficent in art. Especialy if ihave to hop from school to school during that time filling in the gaps(ground work, ect ect). Im just worried about running out of time to be effective. I feel that even if i lost all the weight, and got in good shape, things will go down hill by 40 and ill be even worse at 50. Im worried about time.Edit to ad. I have wasted my 20's which is why im worried about time. I should have done all this discovery 10 years ago. I could have had 8 or so years in tkd had i not been a fat lazy bum playing MMORPGS all damn day long. Now im making up for lost time.

Im not trying to fight you i promise. I really do want to do TKD. Sure if I go from mma to TKD, ill have to learn the rigidity of the school/system. But despite what ever stance im in, a punch is a punch and kick is a kick. I may find my self in a more rigid place, but ill still have my newly learned skills of how to throw a powerful punch and not so crappy kick. Besides the kicks the mma gym im leaning towards borrow heavily from tkd. Which is why i thought it would give me a advantage.

 

[Tez3]

Personally, I wouldn't take TKD, just my choice, I loved Wado Ryu karate it had everything, kicks punches, takes downs and self defence. I'd find a karate place that focuses on everything. It doesn't actually take years to become proficient enough to defend yourself. You don't have to wait until you are a black belt to be able to kick and punch, many places teach adult sparring from the beginning.
You are being pessimistic about going downhill at 40 and worse at 50 you know, I started martial arts later than you, am quite a lot older and I'm far from going downhill!

You've had some good advice on here, look at Hapkido, various karate styles, Krav Maga and Muay Thai for kicking punching, knee and elbow strikes ( though you'll get these in karate and I imagine other styles too) etc. I really don't think TKD would be the best bet nor MMA really if you are only going to stop a year at it before changing. Howevr it would be easier to go to MMA from TKD than the other way around.

In MMA we kick mostly Muay Thai style which is different from TKD,we kick with shins not instep, you'll have to learn to use your body differently, we also don't punch the same way, again you'll have to learn a different way of moving.

I hope whatever you chose you enjoy and have a good time learning, and forget the age thing lol!

 

[Kframe]

Personally, I wouldn't take TKD, just my choice, I loved Wado Ryu karate it had everything, kicks punches, takes downs and self defence. I'd find a karate place that focuses on everything. It doesn't actually take years to become proficient enough to defend yourself. You don't have to wait until you are a black belt to be able to kick and punch, many places teach adult sparring from the beginning.
You are being pessimistic about going downhill at 40 and worse at 50 you know, I started martial arts later than you, am quite a lot older and I'm far from going downhill!

You've had some good advice on here, look at Hapkido, various karate styles, Krav Maga and Muay Thai for kicking punching, knee and elbow strikes ( though you'll get these in karate and I imagine other styles too) etc. I really don't think TKD would be the best bet nor MMA really if you are only going to stop a year at it before changing. Howevr it would be easier to go to MMA from TKD than the other way around.

In MMA we kick mostly Muay Thai style which is different from TKD,we kick with shins not instep, you'll have to learn to use your body differently, we also don't punch the same way, again you'll have to learn a different way of moving.

I hope whatever you chose you enjoy and have a good time learning, and forget the age thing lol!

In the area im in, im limited to a few styles. There is one hapkido school here, but he wants $333 amonth and a 18month contract. SO my options are limited sadly to mma,shori ryu and tkd/tsd.

The particular mma school im leaning towards isnt Muay thai based, they have more kicks that i have seen in TKD then MT. THey do include the knees and elbows and clinching, but i see far more TKD style kicks then anything else. I think there system is closer to a modified version of American Kickboxing.(like isaid they also train in knees elbow and clinch stuff)
I know very little about the shori-ryu school, and want to visit and do a class there as well.

I know im enamoured right now with mma.(having watched to many tkd get pummeld by them on youtube, not to mention the mma coaches comments/experiance) Having said that, i will give the 3 traditional schools on my list a fair shake and visit and class. Im going to have to go with my gut on this one tho. Im going to just see, when it is all said an done, what my feelings are with all of them.

In the end tho, it maybe more about the practioner then the art even if it is just something like mma or tkd or what have you. I need to keep sight of that. I dont want to get cuaght up in "arts" and what not, and focus on just training to be the best i can be. Also in the end it will depend on which ever im best able to physicaly do at the time. That will play the biggest role.

Tez3 and to all else who responded, i appreciate your comments and the discussion. IT will go along way towards helping me. No matter what i choose, i have a support system here that will help me train in the off days regardless of which i choose. I have a older friend(mid 40s now) who has been in more then a few scraps who is really pushing mma. His fighting style is essentially a mixed martial art. Hes good at boxing, with some good but basic kicks and really(Really) good at ground skills. The other person, my dad, also who came out on top in a number of real encounters is really pushing TKD for the same reasons.
I know i sound it, but im conflicted on which way i want to go.

Who knows, maybe if i go mma route for a foundation, i could take bits and peices of other arts and styles stuff and include it in the mix to round out my abilities and essantialy create a style unique to me.

 

[Tez3]

In the area im in, im limited to a few styles. There is one hapkido school here, but he wants $333 amonth and a 18month contract. SO my options are limited sadly to mma,shori ryu and tkd/tsd.

The particular mma school im leaning towards isnt Muay thai based, they have more kicks that i have seen in TKD then MT. THey do include the knees and elbows and clinching, but i see far more TKD style kicks then anything else. I think there system is closer to a modified version of American Kickboxing.(like isaid they also train in knees elbow and clinch stuff)
I know very little about the shori-ryu school, and want to visit and do a class there as well.

I know im enamoured right now with mma.(having watched to many tkd get pummeld by them on youtube, not to mention the mma coaches comments/experiance) Having said that, i will give the 3 traditional schools on my list a fair shake and visit and class. Im going to have to go with my gut on this one tho. Im going to just see, when it is all said an done, what my feelings are with all of them.

In the end tho, it maybe more about the practioner then the art even if it is just something like mma or tkd or what have you. I need to keep sight of that. I dont want to get cuaght up in "arts" and what not, and focus on just training to be the best i can be.

What is the MMA coach's experience? I wouldn't take too much notice of YouTube tbh ( there's a thread on here about it) does he have a team of professional rules fighters? Has he fought himself? MMA is a competitive sport and the coach/es should have experience competeting, cornering and bringing on fighters. Are you expected to fight or can you just train? How much fitness training is down? If it's just instructors teaching stand up and ground work it isn't MMA it's just stand up and ground work, could be fine but they shouldn't call it MMA.

 

[Kframe]

What is the MMA coach's experience? I wouldn't take too much notice of YouTube tbh ( there's a thread on here about it) does he have a team of professional rules fighters? Has he fought himself? MMA is a competitive sport and the coach/es should have experience competeting, cornering and bringing on fighters. Are you expected to fight or can you just train? How much fitness training is down? If it's just instructors teaching stand up and ground work it isn't MMA it's just stand up and ground work, could be fine but they shouldn't call it MMA.

Here is the link to the person im considering training with. http://teamelitemma.com/
He has 20 years in olympic tkd and then branched out into boxing and BJJ. He Has competed in a number of compititons. His school is very new, so they only have a few fighters training there now, and more coming up. He has competed in mma, and i think he may still compete but is for now focused on training others. When i did visit some of the students(the competeing fighters) came up and talked to me and they all were happy with him. I asked as many detailed questions to the instructor as i could, asking him about specific fighting and self defense subjects. Subjects ranged from long range attacking to close range tactics to passive vs active blocking and ofcourse the ground work. Whats really drawing me to him is his strong tkd background. He knows of my desire to have some comradery with my father and understands that. I feel that me and my father being able to atleast share some common kicks in general would help us rebuild our relationship.