MMA for self defense thought experiment

[jobo]

That face off stuff can still be considered a self defense situation because his "friends" can make it so that escape is impossible. This is especially applicable in bullying situations and mostly applies to juveniles in schools, however it can also occur among adults.

Yes very much so, its a case of reprenting strengh confidence, that may very much convince him not to take it further, ive had a couple off stand offs in the recent passed with people using their considerable size to try and intimidate me, if id have shown weakness they would have come at me, the fact i was more than happy to fight made made them reconsider. its like the trash talk at the weigh in, you can gain a psychological advantage

 

[Deleted member 39746]

The point that people bring up about TKD as one of its strong points is they spar a lot (pending school i know but most spar/do sport a lot) So that seems like one of MMA's strong points, you get to actually practice pretty freely compared to other things to see what happens you also might get used to getting punched at one moment, kicked the next and grabbed after that. I haven't done it but it seems like a freer composition to find out what works for you than others.

Im inclined to agree about the it doesn't analogue to self defence well point, i believe that to be something that you need to teach specifically to actually get good in, so its separate from anything else, yeah you can be good in terms of being able to punch somone but its more than that.

But it does seem like you could get some full sets of padded armour and go at it pretty rough if you wanted a more realistic experience or practice brekafalls on concrete etc. So on the physical side of self defence skills you could argue it can be as good as one wants it to be. (then its semantics if its actually MMA or not)

addendum: I dont believe actual self defence situations last that long neither for weapons nor unarmed, so the timer for competitions is a mixed bag.

 

[drop bear]

That was not the implication at all. The "thought experiment" that MetalBoar proposed was directly related to what I just said above.....what if an MMA fighter had to respond to an surprise fully committed attack and finish it within a minute (as you might in a self defense situation)? Would it look different?

That does happen. That is why they do the touch gloves like they do.

 

[drop bear]

But it does seem like you could get some full sets of padded armour and go at it pretty rough if you wanted a more realistic experience

Why would padding make it more realistic?

 

[Martial D]

Why would padding make it more realistic?

What you don't wear padded clothes day to day? Weirdo.

 

[drop bear]

What you don't wear padded clothes day to day? Weirdo.

Only shoulders and crotch.

I did fist suit training there at one stage. Personally I think the limitations outweigh the advantages. From an actual person who can fights point of view.

 

[FriedRice]

That does happen. That is why they do the touch gloves like they do.

GOOD....that excessive touching gloves ****, gets on my nerves.

 

[FriedRice]

You know why there's a feeling out process between equally trained fighters, right? Because if you go in crazy like in UFC 1, then you'll *usually* get ****ed up real quick.

--You should realize that this thread was started as a "spin off" of a thread in the Wing Chun forum titled "Sparring vs. Self Defense" where we discussed whether sparring ability should be considered the "litmus" test of fighting ability in reference to more traditional styles that have a self defense focus. In these styles most everything is centered around responding to a committed attack, and then continuing until the opponent if finished if possible.

1. You should learn how to quote correctly, it's not even that difficult, so that people whom you're responding directly to, get an alert from the forum.

2. I don't need to realize anything from any other thread from some other forum that I don't even care about, of which one of them is the Wang Chun forum....in order to respond to a separate thread and its contents. Otherwise, I'd have to go around reading every freakin' posts.

3. You don't think MMA fighters are not training to continue an attack until someone is knocked the **** out, especially when MILLIONS of DOLLARS can be on the line, including possibly $100,000,000 in future earnings, worldwide glory, etc.?

This is a different orientation than "squaring off" with an opponent where you ARE going to go thru a "feeling out" process, give and take uncommitted attacks, etc.

You still don't understand why trained & experienced fighters often square off w/feeling out process, even after my posting like 5 videos proving why it's a smart thing to do.

So many of these more traditional arts with a "self defense" emphasis don't do well when they try to spar for this reason.

Well they're usually just terrible at fighting and their training only affords them to do well or beat untrained bums on the streets. But go up against trained fighters, they usually get wrecked. Actually, many will probably get wrecked by untrained, street bums who've had street fights....because most of these "self defense" emphasis are usually Larping only, with pretend strikes.

Or, when sparring they revert to some form of kickboxing and look very little like the art they have been training.

More like, sloppy kickboxing...and that's because real fighting by most Martial Artists, translates to Kickboxing = why those of us who've realized this, train straight Kickboxing/MT to fight and dump most to all of the kata time wasting.

---That was not the implication at all. The "thought experiment" that MetalBoar proposed was directly related to what I just said above.....what if an MMA fighter had to respond to an surprise fully committed attack and finish it within a minute (as you might in a self defense situation)? Would it look different?

What, like a sucker-punch? Who do you think would be better at addressing punches thrown at their face at full speed & power, with full intentions of knocking their target the **** out? And MMA fighter who actually is getting hit for real as apart of average training, up to full power for KO's.....or someone who only trains with pretend strikes that never land at full power into the faces of their sparring partners and vice versa?

You guys never really fought anyone good,

---There really is no need to be such a dick about things in a discussion. Even if it is half-joking.

No, this part I'm dead serious. You're probably terrible at fighting and flinches like a spaz. Just to be clear, I'm definitely, not joking.

But here are some street fights where the trained fighters danced around.

---And this is still a "face off" or "sparring" situation. Just on the street instead of in the ring. Not really the equivalent of a self defense situation.

Basically, you're a self-defense Larper who makes up fantasy scenarios to justify what you do.

 

[ShortBridge]

...
MMA frequently has a format something like 5 minute rounds with a one minute rest for up to 5 rounds. Most any self defense situation is going to be over in less than a couple of minutes...

It depends on what you consider "self defense". Pheonix Jones (local guy to me) agreeing to what is defined in local statutes as "mutual agreed combat" is not what I consider self defense. It's okay if you see that differently, but it's important that you know what you are trying for. I would call that "street fighting" or "agreeing to meet at the bike rack after school" rather than self defense. I think about self defense as surviving an assault and in that case, I think an average duration will be measured in dozens of seconds maximum.

I would encourage you to think about what you are concerned about defending yourself against. Decide what you want the outcome to be and work backward from there. Both traditional and sport styles are thought as a means to an end, regardless of which you prefer, it may not be the same as responding to an assault.

 

[drop bear]

GOOD....that excessive touching gloves ****, gets on my nerves.

I prefer it because it emphasizes professionalism. And I prefer that model when it comes to fighting.

Mostly because I can just pull out professionalism from anywhere and have my top game ready.

Rather than fighting be feelings based.

So touch gloves, attempt murder, stop, give the guy a hug and leave.

 

[drop bear]

Fight length is a red herring. If you have some sort of self imposed terminal limit you are basically putting yourself at a disadvantage.

You don't look for knock outs. You strike well and the knock outs will come.

 

[KPM]

1. You should learn how to quote correctly, it's not even that difficult, so that people whom you're responding directly to, get an alert from the forum.

2. I don't need to realize anything from any other thread from some other forum that I don't even care about, of which one of them is the Wang Chun forum....in order to respond to a separate thread and its contents. Otherwise, I'd have to go around reading every freakin' posts.

3. You don't think MMA fighters are not training to continue an attack until someone is knocked the **** out, especially when MILLIONS of DOLLARS can be on the line, including possibly $100,000,000 in future earnings, worldwide glory, etc.?



You still don't understand why trained & experienced fighters often square off w/feeling out process, even after my posting like 5 videos proving why it's a smart thing to do.



Well they're usually just terrible at fighting and their training only affords them to do well or beat untrained bums on the streets. But go up against trained fighters, they usually get wrecked. Actually, many will probably get wrecked by untrained, street bums who've had street fights....because most of these "self defense" emphasis are usually Larping only, with pretend strikes.



More like, sloppy kickboxing...and that's because real fighting by most Martial Artists, translates to Kickboxing = why those of us who've realized this, train straight Kickboxing/MT to fight and dump most to all of the kata time wasting.



What, like a sucker-punch? Who do you think would be better at addressing punches thrown at their face at full speed & power, with full intentions of knocking their target the **** out? And MMA fighter who actually is getting hit for real as apart of average training, up to full power for KO's.....or someone who only trains with pretend strikes that never land at full power into the faces of their sparring partners and vice versa?



No, this part I'm dead serious. You're probably terrible at fighting and flinches like a spaz. Just to be clear, I'm definitely, not joking.




Basically, you're a self-defense Larper who makes up fantasy scenarios to justify what you do.

I'll say it again. There really is no need to be such a dick in a discussion forum. Because you are acting like such a dick, I didn't even bother to read past about the first line of this post. If you are so incapable of carrying on a civil discussion, then you obviously aren't worth my time and effort.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Why would padding make it more realistic?

Because no ones going to let you get insurance or let you hit them with a weapon without padding.


You can allow more if you wear armour with less risk of injury.

 

[Mitlov]

I'll say it again. There really is no need to be such a dick in a discussion forum. Because you are acting like such a dick, I didn't even bother to read past about the first line of this post. If you are so incapable of carrying on a civil discussion, then you obviously aren't worth my time and effort.

I agree. I'll be candid, I don't understand why posts like this are tolerated on a self-described "friendly martial arts community":

"You're probably terrible at fighting and flinches like a spaz. Just to be clear, I'm definitely, not joking. Basically, you're a self-defense Larper who makes up fantasy scenarios to justify what you do."

You don't need to continually tear others down just to lift yourself up.

 

[FriedRice]

I'll say it again. There really is no need to be such a dick in a discussion forum. Because you are acting like such a dick, I didn't even bother to read past about the first line of this post. If you are so incapable of carrying on a civil discussion, then you obviously aren't worth my time and effort.

Not sure if you're trying to make a gay pass at me or trying insult me. You def. like some dick though. Or are you just crying because you lack the intelligence to make further arguments?

 

[FriedRice]

I prefer it because it emphasizes professionalism. And I prefer that model when it comes to fighting.

Mostly because I can just pull out professionalism from anywhere and have my top game ready.

Rather than fighting be feelings based.

So touch gloves, attempt murder, stop, give the guy a hug and leave.

It's just excessive in MMA. They TG when the Ref brings them together for brief instructions in the center. When the Ref is done, they TG again, then go to opposite ends. Then while waiting for the Ref to say "fight", 1 dip**** would signal to the other guy to see if he wants to TG or not.....WTF?

 

[Mitlov]

Not sure if you're trying to make a gay pass at me or trying insult me. You def. like some dick though. Or are you just crying because you lack the intelligence to make further arguments?

Post reported. This is outrageous.

 

[FriedRice]

I agree. I'll be candid, I don't understand why posts like this are tolerated on a self-described "friendly martial arts community":

"You're probably terrible at fighting and flinches like a spaz. Just to be clear, I'm definitely, not joking. Basically, you're a self-defense Larper who makes up fantasy scenarios to justify what you do."

You don't need to continually tear others down just to lift yourself up.

You're quite a biased hypocrite aren't you, + spaz.

 

[FriedRice]

Post reported. This is outrageous.

You and @KPM are probably the same guy. They should do an IP address check on you for multiple accounts.

 

[hoshin1600]

You can allow more if you wear armour with less risk of injury.

I think your misguided in this concept. I have used the Red Man suit that law enforcement uses and it sucks. The guy wearing it can hardly move. If he falls down he is like a turtle on its back. This is what I think @drop bear was getting at. The protection gear hinders the wearer so much that they can't actually fight. There is lighter gear out there but lighter gear requires less power in your contact which defeats it's purpose.
I find the only good purpose for such thick gear is for a walking punching bag.