multiple opponent art

[arnisador]

Against three attackers I used more reasoning than any one art--line them up, keep moving, try to take one out when you get them as separated as you can--and that reasoning I picked up mostly in kung fu and arnis, but the particular movement ideas from aikido.

How you actually hit them is less the issue than the big strategy I think.

There was another thread on this but I can't recall if it was here, the JKD forum, or elsewhere!

 

[Zujitsuka]

As mentioned earlier, 'Nike-do' (i.e. the way of running) is your best bet. If you absolutely, positively have to fight more than one attacker, there is no one art that has all of the answers. One should consult various principles rather than techniques.

For instance, Aiki concepts are great for moving out of the way and using certain throws on the fly. What I've seen of Systema I like too because they are very similar to Aiki movement. The bobbing and weaving from Western boxing will help a lot. Plus the short punches like uppercuts and hooks. Muay Thai low kicks, knees and elbows can help you create a path for escape.

Employing these concepts will not work if you are not in good shape. The famous Belgian olympian Karl Gotch said it best, "Conditioning is the best hold."

Make sure to get your muscular endurance and cardiovascular exercise in. Here is a great resource that has a couple of great workouts posted:

http://www.trainforstrength.com

Regards,

Tyrone Turner
"Zujitsuka"
Queens, NY
http://www.tyroneturner.com

 

[Damian Mavis]

Sweeper, I guess philosophy was an inapropriate word, guess that can mean spirituality which is not what I meant. What I mean is methodology, way of thinking, way of training.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by arnisador



How you actually hit them is less the issue than the big strategy I think.

This I agree on! this incl., I think, the same said earlier about praticing your "art" with multiple attackers. I'd go for the Aikido appraoch, but I've been running around in a black "dress" to many years to be objective on that.....

In this sense I agree with knifeman too.

/ari

 

[theneuhauser]

How you actually hit them is less the issue than the big strategy I think.

i dont totally agree with that comment. i have some experience in and out of the studio with 2-3 attackers. keeping track of the bad guys by using correct movement is important, and its equally important that you can be efficient once you engage each attacker. obviously, you dont want to waste time with any one person, so you need to know how to incapacitate someone quickly. you need good hands and feet as well. 4 weapons are better than two, right?
i also believe that once you are facing four or more aggressors, though the odds are really against you no matter who you might be.

if this is empty hand were talking about here.
my vote for ultimate multiple bad guy beater is bagua,
with northern praying mantis a close second

 

[arnisador]

I think we largely agree, in that I wasn't trying to say that you didn't need to hit them hard, but that many arts provide good hitting techniques, and whihc ones you use is of less matter than getting a chance to use those hits!

 

[J-kid]

I would use my JUdo/Jujitsu arm bars break one of there arms fingers etc, Anything to make them think twice befor attack,.
Another good idea is dont go for the weakest first it will make the stronger ones all attack at once out of rage. You need to go for the leader , try to reason and if it dosnt go well say one on one try to convince the friends not to jump in all at once then strike the leader . The surprise attack is best. If it looks like there is no way to escape the fast elbows to the heads work great to stop him from hitting you. thats just what i have to say on that.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Hmm do you really think its possible to pull off an arm bar on one while the others attack you? I'm assuming you mean the arm bar where your both on the ground and his arm is locked between your legs and your hyper extending it?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[J-kid]

I might on the ground , but i was talking about standing,

 

[D.Cobb]

What about pressure points? Why not go for the knock out? Even if it doesn't work everytime you are still gonna hurt them in a big way. Surely that has some merit.

:asian:

--Dave

 

[Damian Mavis]

Ya I was just a little confused because if 3 guys are rushing you trying to grab/hit/hurt you all at the same time how do you take the time to do an armbar..... wouldnt the time it takes to lever the arm be ample time for his buddies to stomp on your face considering you are stationary and your limbs are mostly all tied up performing the armbar?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[7starmantis]

I do want to say that I don't agree with whomever psoted about taking out the leader first. A pack of wolves this will work with, but if you are being attacked by 3 or 4 people at once, I think you should take out the closest or first person you come in contact with. Trying to over-think the situation I believe will only result in getting your butt whipped. Personally, 4 guys attack me at once, the first guy is getting a couple limbs broken, adn then probably being thrown in the way of the other closest attacker. There is no pulling punches when your fighting for your life.


7sm

 

[Angus]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

I would use my JUdo/Jujitsu arm bars break one of there arms fingers etc, Anything to make them think twice befor attack,.

Yeah, and it will get you killed. If you sit there and try and defend until you can get an arm bar in you'll be dead. NEVER seek ANYTHING in a fight, be it a lock, hit, or submission. It's very contrary to the idea of flow: acting upon yours and the opponents energies. If you seek the armbar you'll probably get stomped in the process. You can't have a plan of attack because you don't know what going to happen! You're very likely talking about your life here, so you wouldn't want to risk it by trying to get an armbar rather than trying to save/cover your ***.

First post here! I must say, this is by FAR the only really worthy MA forum I've run across. Most have been a waste of time.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Welcome Angus

hey I see in your profile you take Muay Thai, Pent jack silat, bjj ,kali... are these all taught at the same school and are you part of the Dan Inosanto/Ajarn Chai family tree? If so, extra nice to meet you, I'm training at a school in Canada that is part of that tree.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Angus]

Yes, it's part of that tree. My teacher is either the only woman or the first woman certified as a Thai instructor in the northwest (under Ajarn Chai, no less!). Pretty cool, she does demos and things with him when she can.

I've also studied pure Muay Thai (and a little Pankration) at AMC kickboxing, which is famous for all the fighters it's trained and that instruct there (Matt Hume, Josh Barnett, Ivan Salaverry, etc etc). Very cool school but didn't care much about me at the time because I wasn't old enough to compete in Thai fights. I was there for a few years though.

I'm hopefully going to take my Thai student certification soon. Hopefully, anyway. I'm planning on being an instructor.

Oh yeah, and fighting multiple attackers is bad.

 

[arnisador]

Is there a Pencak Silat approach to multiple attackers?

 

[Damian Mavis]

Angus, that's cool, I took my shorts certification test last May.... it was quite exciting! Good luck on yours.

Hey your birthday is one day after mine. Mines May 10th....not that this matters haha just thought it was a neat coincidence.

And I can't believe I keep mispelling Pencak Silat. woops

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Angus]

Very nice website, too, Damian! Nice breaks!

As far as the May 10 birthday, well...nobody is perfect. You were close though!

I don't know what Penjack/Pencak/Penjak Silat (i've seen it all ways, I don't know what is correct) says about multiple opponents. One of the problems with studying big blends is that you don't really learn each well enough, in my opinion. However, I'm curious now, so I'll see if I can do a little research on it. I'm sure there is someone who studies some form of Silat on this site who can clue us in, though.

 

[Damian Mavis]

I study Pencak Silat but I'm pretty new to it so can't really comment on it's applicability for multiple opponents yet. Will let everyone know in about a decade or so!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[H@pkid0ist]

Hapkido is an effective overall art. We train in all aspects of the fight, Ground, close combat, distance, grappling, etc...
We do up to 10 man self defense training. Any more than that really doesnt make a difference. Its a lot of people. The biggest danger other than weapons you have then is everyone bum rushing you at once. You have to be focused even more so when there are multiple attackers. I think reguardless of style, if you train to react to 2,3,4, and more then you will be as ready as you can be. Just as with any situation though. Don't have a set routine in mind. Let the moment and the assailant decide your technique. Its all to unpredictable.:armed: :fart: