Modern Arnis Situation/Succession - Was "A question that needs to be answered"

[Sir_Yantok]

You might be right in the Grandmaster Presas preferring to be called Professor, but I truly, truly doubt that he would call anyone co-grandmaster or grandmaster for that fact, he is the one, the real deal, the emancipator, the originator, the innovator, and everything else, if for any fact, he is the REAL DATU OF ARNIS, and everything else is a cheap 5 cent photocopycat. For all your knowledge, Grandmastery of anything means the supreme understanding and execution of specific area, again I stress that nowhere in the Press Release is co-grandmaster mentioned, and personally I don't give too much credit for that piece of crap, as it was written by Randy Schea, a "SUCCESSOR", obviously identifying a huge conflict of interest, I hardly think that the Professor in what was his condition truly approved such a public statement, and even if his will has even read to him correctly!! Schea and Delaney, they're all made from the same dungpile, who came as vultures to pick as much as they can from a dying man's altered consciousness, I give no condolence from those kinds of pretenders and rogues.

Can You Dig It, Sucka?
------Booker T, circa July 2001---------

:boing2: :boing2: :boing2:

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Yantok,
You say that you have not affiliation with the Presas' yet you side with them every time. You also seem to have gotten way too personal. You need to chill out. If you want some one to listen give some logical reasons. Call people a dungpile or a cheap 5 cent photocopycat. By the way is this Carlos I'm hearing from? All the wrestling quotes make me think that it's him.
:shrug:

 

[sinawali]

blue

In regards to the future of Modern Arnis, I have seen many different attitudes at the Professors camps and seminars.. some good, some bad. Our duty to our teacher is to personally perfect our technique and continue to grow mentally, physically and spriritually.

Too much time is being spent on who is who, or "Master vs Grandmaster". Information is information, absorb it from everyone and everything.

Keep his dedication to us alive by always remembering to just relax and let things flow, no infighting, he gave far too much to us all to let it all slip away.

peace to all.


sinawali

 

[IFAJKD]

My perspective from a JKD person is that what matters is skill and ullness in combat. If Mr. Hartmans has such skill is all I would are about when seeking him out to train. What can he offer me or my students in this situation?????It's all that matters to me. Where he sits politically or where others think he should be is moot to me. Politics have destroyed martial arts as much as it has helped it. Sounds like he has payed his dues, has had respect from many others and I hope that he can get by the conflict and follow the path he believes he needs to. Dan has done this much to the criticism of others who were not there, didn't understand and were readers of magazines and thought they should have an opinion. Jealously and lack of understanding that comes only from being there with the main people at that time can create some #$^%#@ up attitudes. Renegade......stand strong through this. People will eventually move on and it will sort out

 

[Mao]

Hey Gatorade,
TIMMY, TIMMY, TIMMY.....haaa:boing2:

I just got off duty and am feeling a little punchy. Ya know, in the end none of this political stuff is going to change how I do things, my school, my students, myself and, most importantly, my family. It's all just pebbles and sand. I may vent, offer an opinion, or call someones bluff but it really doesn't matter much. God will put people where He wants them and nobody can change that. It is fun watching the show, though. Sometimes it's fun to participate. I just want to do what is right. I'd like to have fun too................TIMMY, TIMMY, TIMMY.....
As Whoopass puts it, WHOOO!:samurai:

 

[Sir_Yantok]

My loyalty in Modern Arnis lies with Remy Presas, no one else, and specially no one else who would declare themselves Grandmaster. I am Filipino and I feel very disrespected where this art is handed to. You might have no idea how modern arnis exponents in the Philippines might feel about Remy Presas' decision. As for now, I would support the Presas clan because they are Filipino, although that may change in the future, I'm still very glad that they have come in the scene. Yes, I do watch wrestling, although I don't have any idea who you're talking about.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sir_Yantok,
A question. "I feel very disrespected where this art is handed to. " How so?

Due to the political infighting? That the "successorship" for MA was supposedly handed to a non-fillipino?

"You might have no idea how modern arnis exponents in the Philippines might feel about Remy Presas' decision. "

I would assume some would be ok with it, while others for various reasons would not be.

I ask, only to clarify.

Thank you.

 

[sinawali]

In response to the post regarding that Modern Arnis be passed only to a Filipino...,

Talent is talent, and that is all that should be noticed.

As Modern Arnis has its roots in many different systems, does that mean that a "karate' type punch in Modern Arnis must be shown by a Japanese intructor?, then passed back to the lead Filipino instructor to show De Cadena or Abanico?, then back to a Capoeria instructor from Brazil if a executed kick looks like it comes from a ginga instead of a triangle formation???

There is way too much fighting going on all over the world, too much racism everywhere...look at talent, not skin color, race or religion.

Peace.

Sinawali

 

[Mao]

Follow them because they're "filipino" ? Isn't that a bit like saying follow Hitler because your German, or follow Bin-Ladin because your middle eastern? Simply being Filipino does not make one better at a filipino style. One of my students is Indonesian. Does that mean that his silat should be awesome? He knows none. Another student is a lawyer. Does tha mean............well.....I'll leave that one alone. Get the point?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mao,
Watch the language.....I'm alergic to the "L" word.

 

[Mao]

And it pained me to say it...:asian:

 

[Brian Johns]

Prof Presas was fond of saying "Holy Cow" to anything that was said or done. It was oftentimes hilarious to hear him say "Holy Cow" in his Filipino accent. In reading Yantok's post, I said to myself "Holy Cow" in a pseudo Remy voice for the reason that the assertions by Yantok is just ridiculous. As one person said, talent cuts across all racial or ethnic groups. What if it was an Irish firefighter who displayed the most talent ? Or what if it was WhoopAss ?

In all seriousness, I have seen some very talented non Filipinos in Modern Arnis and I could care less who I learn from. I could give a flying crud whether the head of the style or the instructor was Filipino. Do you see any Americans managers in Japanese professional baseball ? Nah.

:uzi: :flame: :uzi: :flame: :uzi: :flame: :flame: :flame:

 

[Icepick]

Watch it Moo!

:uzi:

 

[Black Grass]

Renegade wrote:

P.S. Every time I told Remy I wanted to go to the Phillipines to go train and learn more about the culture he would tell me that I could learn about the culture, but the good FMAers already move to the states! Food for thought.

Well the Prof. was plan wrong on this one. There was and are still great FMAers in the RP (Republic of the Phil.). One name that jumps to mind is Tatang Illustrisimo probably one of the most feared GMs in our time. He lived in the RP for the most part until his death in 97. There was a reason that Edgar Suilte brought his students to the RP until his death in 97. Because there is still lots of arnis to learn is the RP.

However, just because you live in the RP (or for that matter are a pinoy) doesn't not mean you are better or know more about the arts than someone in the US. You don't have to go to the RP to be a great arnisador. There are lots of great resources here.

In regards to modern arnis and its development, now I haven't been involved in modern arnis for several years so I don't have a "side". Actually, I think the last time I was involved was at a Michigan camp where Renegade got his 5th Lakan. (And just for the record Renegade was impressive). However, what turned me off to Modern Arnis was some of the other black belts I saw. They could do the traps and tapi-tapi, but there basics were terrible. They couldn't break through paper with there #1. Yet some walked around like they were undefeated masters from the RP. (As a side bar Renegade, although he might come off as arrogant in his posts here was not like this at all. We called simply called him Tim and he showed you respect regardless of rank.)

Prof. did grant rank based on things other than skill, however it was his art so he could do as he pleased. Its just unfortunate that this makes one question automatically all modern arnis players skill.

So what's my point? The art of modern arnis may have changed and developed but that does not necessarily mean its a better art then 20 yrs ago and those who learned it in its current incarnation today are better than those who learn it 20 yrs. ago.

Now back to work,

Vince
Black Grass

 

[Sir_Yantok]

Here we go. I know that statement might infuriate a lot of you, but no Filipino was included in the sucession of this gem of our culture, and if you're a filipino I think you might feel a little bit left out.

 

[Brian Johns]

<<<Here we go. I know that statement might infuriate a lot of you, but no Filipino was included in the sucession of this gem of our culture, and if you're a filipino I think you might feel a little bit left out.>>>>

WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!! I'm feeling left out because the Commissioner of Japanese baseball is Japanese. To use your crazy assed logic, since Americans invented baseball, the Commissioner of Japanese baseball should be American....baseball is a gem of our culture blah blah blah. But no, the Commissioner of Japanese baseball IS Japanese.

My point ? It's irrelevant what race or ethnic group should be included in the succession of Modern Arnis. If Prof Presas had wanted Filipinos in the succession, he would have done so. I know what your riposte is going to be......"but he probably wasn't thinking clearly and was manipulated etc etc." Let me assure you that I visited him earlier this year and he was very very lucid and very aware of what was going on. He talked about the people involved in Modern Arnis and about his past. Quite simply, the Professor made his choices.

If you want to join an Arnis group headed by a Filipino, that's your right. But don't count out the excellence of many FMA players (and those not necessarily in Modern Arnis). I've heard folks complain about Inosanto because he's never visited the RP. How absurd.

WOOOO!!!



:flame: :flame:

 

[DWright]

I can't believe the mess that has been made out of the IMAF.
I paid for a membership, and haven't seen that it helps my group.

Tim Hartman and his organization have helped us put together some guidelines for our school, and has even stopped by (over 3000 miles from NY) to meet us.

We know who will be promoting the Art when the dust settles, no matter what the IMAF does.

 

[Sir_Yantok]

I don't think I stated in any way that because you are not Filipino that you cannot excel in Arnis. Please contain yourself. Please do not distort what I said. My opinion is mine, and I could care less if you think the commissioner of Japanese baseball should be american, and your assurance is doubtful, because just as what Tim Hartman said, it is what the Professor stated in public that he often meant. Besides, its not like every american watches japanese baseball when there's Barry Bonds.


WOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

[Sir_Yantok]

P.S. Can anybody tell me if Delaney deserved to be named Successor?

 

[Keil Randor]

Sheesh....this is a long one. You folks are an "interesting" group....

I read the last dozen posts a few times...just to be sure I got things straight...I think.

Having reread things a bit that Sir_Yantok's point seems to be that out of the 2 individuals supposedly named "co-successor" and the group set up as a steering commitee, there wasn't a Fillipino influence.

Looked at another way, perhaps it can be said that GM Presas intended that the best of his current, high ranked, active students would work together as a group to guide the art until such time as a leader would arrise and become the next true grandmaster. That may be the reason for a co-SUCCESSORSHIP + a commitee. It seems like due to political manipulations behind the scenes that Mr. Hartman was "worked" out of this arrangement. How else can a 3rd, I'm sorry, a "5th" suddenly outrank a 6th? Opps, I'm sorry, he wasn't a "5th", just had a "5th".

It is only after GM Presas death that the vultures seem to come out and all want a piece for themselves.

:soapbox:
It's like a bloody soap opera...sheesh.

The Girlfriend, who wants her cut...and See what I do for "The Family" - I don't know you, and I don't care to...I've already known someone who sounds like a twin.

The Family - Who has the "Name", but hasn't really seemed to do much else for years. (You folks are going to carry the art forward? How many hours have you spent training, sweating, bleeding?) What rank are all of you? Did you earn it, or buy it nice and cheep at the supply store?

The Ego-Case - That would be Mr. Delany - Damn but your website is sooo about "You". I haven't seen that much Ego stroking in a long time. Got a "Small" problem there Jeffy?

The "Tag-A-Longs" - You know who you all are...you're the ones that will switch sides in a minute, depending on who will kiss your asses the best....or talk out of both sides of your **** at once.


Damn the whole bunch of you....the only ones who "Get It" are those who understand...

Modern Arnis is more than Remy A. Presas...and it WAS Remy A. Presas. He wanted the art to continue, but didn't plan for the succession right. Maybe it was a blind spot, in that he -TRUSTED- his -BEST- to carry on without being a group of greedy little children.

Poor Remy....he was wrong.

Now you all fight over "Don't forget the name...." and "Look at me, I'm the real successor...it says so right here...." and "Its the Blood".

Sheesh...kneepads, blood, purity...blah blah blah.

90% of this isn't about Remy, or Modern Arnis...its about FN Greed.

Sheesh......some days, it's simply not worth chewing through the straps....BAH!


[ MOD EDIT] Keil, watch it....this is your -ONLY- warning... [ /MOD EDIT] - Kaith